Author Topic: coronavirus  (Read 54492 times)

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2150 on: July 06, 2020, 10:32:43 PM »
It's now 27 days in a row where the 7-day average of daily new cases for the country has increased.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2151 on: July 07, 2020, 06:18:53 AM »
Only 5% of Spanish have been found to have COVID-19 antibodies .

Despite Spain having been hit especially hard by the virus, it's still nowhere near having enough people protected from reinfection to significantly slow future outbreaks.

Kasandra

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2152 on: July 07, 2020, 06:32:08 AM »
Experts in the US anticipate that Fauci may have been conservative in his estimate that we will reach 100,000 new infections each day.  Cities are running out of tests and hospitals are near or at capacity for C19 patients in a few states, and more will follow.  Now Fauci has been barred from appearing on CNN and MSNBC, and FOX won't invite him.  You know the government is corrupt when no one in the Administration will even talk about it.  Last night he was featured in an interview with Francis Collins, the head of the NIH, which was excerpted on MSNBC.

The Trump Administration is not trying to lower fears about C19, it's trying to make people forget about it, even while scientists and medical experts are saying a second wave is starting even before the first wave has finished.  FEMA has stopped supplying testing supplies to cities that are running out of their current stock, OSHA won't investigate worker safety claims about plants, stores and offices that are forcing employees to work in high risk C19 areas.

Meanwhile, the average age of recent hospital admissions of people with C19 infections has dropped to around 40 or below in many states.  That's not just positive tests.  The Governors of Florida and Texas won't reverse their course to increase public safety measures, and blame the people who are getting sick for following or not following their state guidelines.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

Kasandra

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2153 on: July 07, 2020, 08:40:47 AM »
The 7-day moving average for C19 deaths is now at or near its peak spanning March 1 -July 6 in Arizona, California, Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2154 on: July 07, 2020, 11:38:33 AM »

yossarian22c

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2155 on: July 07, 2020, 12:51:42 PM »
I bet nobody saw this coming: Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro tests positive for COVID-19

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, given his bold statements about how he could shake it off. He's in a medium risk category, getting older but seemingly otherwise healthy. Its likely his case could end up similar to Boris Johnson's, wonder if that will finally change the official policy of his government.

Kasandra

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2156 on: July 07, 2020, 01:00:41 PM »
I bet nobody saw this coming: Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro tests positive for COVID-19

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, given his bold statements about how he could shake it off. He's in a medium risk category, getting older but seemingly otherwise healthy. Its likely his case could end up similar to Boris Johnson's, wonder if that will finally change the official policy of his government.

Based on the quality of medical care in Brazil and the UK, if his case is at all similar to Johnson's, he'll die.

TheDeamon

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2157 on: July 07, 2020, 01:03:09 PM »
I bet nobody saw this coming: Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro tests positive for COVID-19

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, given his bold statements about how he could shake it off. He's in a medium risk category, getting older but seemingly otherwise healthy. Its likely his case could end up similar to Boris Johnson's, wonder if that will finally change the official policy of his government.

Based on the quality of medical care in Brazil and the UK, if his case is at all similar to Johnson's, he'll die.

He's a 1%er, he'll get good medical care, unless the doctors decide to let him die and others don't stop them. Their policies could shift regardless if he ends up spending time on a ventilator. He won't be calling the shots at that point.

Kasandra

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2158 on: July 07, 2020, 02:32:34 PM »
Quote
He's a 1%er, he'll get good medical care, unless the doctors decide to let him die and others don't stop them. Their policies could shift regardless if he ends up spending time on a ventilator. He won't be calling the shots at that point.

You can't buy your way out of a fatal response to an illness for which there is no cure and no reliable treatment.  OTOH, if you're right and every "1%er" or leader of a country can buy their way out of dying, then there really should be revolutions in some countries.

yossarian22c

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2159 on: July 07, 2020, 02:41:03 PM »
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He's a 1%er, he'll get good medical care, unless the doctors decide to let him die and others don't stop them. Their policies could shift regardless if he ends up spending time on a ventilator. He won't be calling the shots at that point.

You can't buy your way out of a fatal response to an illness for which there is no cure and no reliable treatment.  OTOH, if you're right and every "1%er" or leader of a country can buy their way out of dying, then there really should be revolutions in some countries.

In Brazil he's likely to receive top notch medical care. While the impoverished people in Brazil are going to be lucky to receive any medical care at all. And good medical care does significantly reduce the death rate for covid 19.

TheDeamon

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2160 on: July 07, 2020, 04:01:26 PM »
Quote
He's a 1%er, he'll get good medical care, unless the doctors decide to let him die and others don't stop them. Their policies could shift regardless if he ends up spending time on a ventilator. He won't be calling the shots at that point.

You can't buy your way out of a fatal response to an illness for which there is no cure and no reliable treatment.  OTOH, if you're right and every "1%er" or leader of a country can buy their way out of dying, then there really should be revolutions in some countries.

In Brazil he's likely to receive top notch medical care. While the impoverished people in Brazil are going to be lucky to receive any medical care at all. And good medical care does significantly reduce the death rate for covid 19.

That was exactly the point I was making, or attempting to. If there is a treatment option that will speed him through the illness, he's at the top of the list for getting it in Brazil at this time, you can bet on it. Remdesivir, blood plasma, etc. He's probably going to get them long before others would even be considered.

Kasandra

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2161 on: July 07, 2020, 04:18:34 PM »
¡Viva la revolución!

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2162 on: July 07, 2020, 04:36:57 PM »
¡Viva la revolución!
Brazil's official language is Portuguese :P

Kasandra

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2163 on: July 07, 2020, 05:02:33 PM »
¡Viva la revolución!
Brazil's official language is Portuguese :P

Not por moi.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2164 on: July 08, 2020, 06:48:47 AM »
Citing three unnamed sources within the administration, the WaPo reported the following:
Quote
The goal is to convince Americans that they can live with the virus… White House officials also hope Americans will grow numb to the escalating death toll and learn to accept tens of thousands of new cases a day, according to three people familiar with the White House’s thinking, who requested anonymity to reveal internal deliberations. Americans will ‘live with the virus being a threat,’ in the words of one of those people, a senior administration official.

rightleft22

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2165 on: July 08, 2020, 12:04:35 PM »
Citing three unnamed sources within the administration, the WaPo reported the following:
Quote
The goal is to convince Americans that they can live with the virus… White House officials also hope Americans will grow numb to the escalating death toll and learn to accept tens of thousands of new cases a day, according to three people familiar with the White House’s thinking, who requested anonymity to reveal internal deliberations. Americans will ‘live with the virus being a threat,’ in the words of one of those people, a senior administration official.

Seems obvious to me that Trump is trying to get that message across. 

Might work as long as the majority of those hospitalization and dying continue to be older population. 
I suspect even the Trump supporters that lose parents to covid wouldn't hold it against Trump

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2166 on: July 08, 2020, 12:23:34 PM »

I suspect even the Trump supporters that lose parents to covid wouldn't hold it against Trump

I think you need to be careful about assigning blame to Trump for this whole situation. Would another President have handled it better? Maybe. Some conservatives here have argued that Biden was saying even worse stuff originally re: travel ban, but let's leave off comparisons and talk about the situation in America. It's no secret that Americans basically hold in contempt 'passive' and 'obedient' populations, nanny states, and authoritarian Asian-style governments. All the ingredients that are needed for people to do what they're told and not deviate are anathema to the American mentality. The entire world knows that Americans are rebellious, willful, and even paranoid about being told what to do. I think "don't tell me what to do!!!" (with all three exclamation points) might be the most accurate slogan for the States. In some respects this is admirable and attracts praise, especially in regard to the American drive for success and freedom. But in other respects it's a giant spectacle of shame as the world listens to news report after news report of Americans failing to be able to do things of basic civic responsibility that would be a no-brainer in Sweden or South Korea. So there are pluses and minuses, and situations where the American mentality has benefits, and others where there are drawbacks. Any situation where you really need people to agree and help each other out in a general cause is going to be a big failure in America, especially right now. The exception is a major war, as all the paranoia makes everyone too scared to go against it.

So you can blame Trump all you want, but all he is is the embodiment of "no one tells me what to do or think." If you think he's a problem, you may be right, but remember that he's just a mirror magnifying a general trend in the U.S. And I hope you don't think I'm being mean or anything, most people around the world have already thought this for like 30 years (or at least as far as I remember). He is *not* responsible for the entire country being a huge partisan crapfest, nor is he responsible for the sense of entitlement and disregard for authority that far predates him. *These* are the factors making it hard to accomplish anything in America regarding COVID, along with various political corruptions I suppose.

Kasandra

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2167 on: July 08, 2020, 12:28:13 PM »
Three US states now have more cases being reported than any country in the world.  Other states are close behind.  Being #1 is a good thing?

rightleft22

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2168 on: July 08, 2020, 12:50:49 PM »

I suspect even the Trump supporters that lose parents to covid wouldn't hold it against Trump

I think you need to be careful about assigning blame to Trump for this whole situation. Would another President have handled it better? Maybe. Some conservatives here have argued that Biden was saying even worse stuff originally re: travel ban, but let's leave off comparisons and talk about the situation in America. It's no secret that Americans basically hold in contempt 'passive' and 'obedient' populations, nanny states, and authoritarian Asian-style governments. All the ingredients that are needed for people to do what they're told and not deviate are anathema to the American mentality. The entire world knows that Americans are rebellious, willful, and even paranoid about being told what to do. I think "don't tell me what to do!!!" (with all three exclamation points) might be the most accurate slogan for the States. In some respects this is admirable and attracts praise, especially in regard to the American drive for success and freedom. But in other respects it's a giant spectacle of shame as the world listens to news report after news report of Americans failing to be able to do things of basic civic responsibility that would be a no-brainer in Sweden or South Korea. So there are pluses and minuses, and situations where the American mentality has benefits, and others where there are drawbacks. Any situation where you really need people to agree and help each other out in a general cause is going to be a big failure in America, especially right now. The exception is a major war, as all the paranoia makes everyone too scared to go against it.

So you can blame Trump all you want, but all he is is the embodiment of "no one tells me what to do or think." If you think he's a problem, you may be right, but remember that he's just a mirror magnifying a general trend in the U.S. And I hope you don't think I'm being mean or anything, most people around the world have already thought this for like 30 years (or at least as far as I remember). He is *not* responsible for the entire country being a huge partisan crapfest, nor is he responsible for the sense of entitlement and disregard for authority that far predates him. *These* are the factors making it hard to accomplish anything in America regarding COVID, along with various political corruptions I suppose.

I wan't really thinking about blame  but that in general we tend to hold  leaders accountable even for things they have little control off.
I doubt that Trump followers will hold him accountable for his handling of the crises even if they are personalty affected. As it seems you would not. Trump could kill someone on 5th av and not be held accountable remains true regardless of the excuses.

Thus my point 'The goal is to convince Americans that they can live with the virus' is likely what the administration is going for.

Quote
He is *not* responsible for the entire country being a huge partisan crapfest, nor is he responsible for the sense of entitlement and disregard for authority that far predates him
.

Perhaps he is not "responsible" yet he most certainly uses the partisan crapfest to his advantage exasperating the problem. I doubt he vies the crapfest as a problem.

If someone see the crapfest as a problem yet continue to defend ans support the man who is exasperating it they are part of the problem. no?

If we don't ask for better then the crapfest we can't expect to get any better. I suspect if Biden handled the crises in a similar or worse manner you would let him off the hook
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 12:53:45 PM by rightleft22 »

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2169 on: July 08, 2020, 02:29:28 PM »
I doubt that Trump followers will hold him accountable for his handling of the crises even if they are personalty affected. As it seems you would not. Trump could kill someone on 5th av and not be held accountable remains true regardless of the excuses.

I wasn't talking about the handling of the crisis, reread again; I was talking about how effective any measures taken would actually be in the U.S. You can release guidelines in Denmark to socially distance and people will do it. In the U.S. they either won't bother, or it will be a mixed bag and you'll have to really make laws with teeth to make it happen universally. This isn't an administrative issue, it's a reality of how little the populace is willing to be told what to do. If you took my comment and brought it back to 'Trump can get away with anything' then the fixation on Trump is yours, not mine. I was talking about the people.

Quote
Quote
He is *not* responsible for the entire country being a huge partisan crapfest, nor is he responsible for the sense of entitlement and disregard for authority that far predates him
.

Perhaps he is not "responsible" yet he most certainly uses the partisan crapfest to his advantage exasperating the problem. I doubt he vies the crapfest as a problem.

This is debatable. He ran on a platform which included admitting that the financial system was bonkers and made no sense, but that he was certainly going to exploit it as much as he could so long as it was legal to do so. It seems similar here perhaps; he'll game the system so long as it can advantage him, but may well believe the rules should be different in theory. You know what that makes him? An average American.

Quote
If someone see the crapfest as a problem yet continue to defend ans support the man who is exasperating it they are part of the problem. no?

If we don't ask for better then the crapfest we can't expect to get any better. I suspect if Biden handled the crises in a similar or worse manner you would let him off the hook

It depends on what you see when you look to the top. If you're looking for a shining icon that is one thing; I think I haven't been expecting that for a while. The Ancient Greeks had an idea (held by some) that the leader is responsible for teaching and improving the people by example. He was the moral exemplar. De Tocqueville by contrast seems to observe that leadership follows in the footsteps of the social climate and culture. You get the leader you deserve in many cases, and I don't mean morally, but rather that the social climate is going to determine who gets into office. I would advise in this case to believe Tocqueville and to assume that if Trump is in office that people need to take a long hard look at themselves. And no, not just the right-wingers, it's everyone. The crapfest is mutual. You have no right to demand better until you are better.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2170 on: July 08, 2020, 02:37:00 PM »
I wasn't talking about the handling of the crisis, reread again; I was talking about how effective any measures taken would actually be in the U.S. You can release guidelines in Denmark to socially distance and people will do it. In the U.S. they either won't bother, or it will be a mixed bag and you'll have to really make laws with teeth to make it happen universally. This isn't an administrative issue, it's a reality of how little the populace is willing to be told what to do. If you took my comment and brought it back to 'Trump can get away with anything' then the fixation on Trump is yours, not mine. I was talking about the people.
Isn't it funny how those New Yorkers, famed for their intransigence, were able to get control over the spread of the virus?  Could it be that they came to understand the risks and costs associated with the spread of the virus, and that that understanding was a direct result of a) getting accurate information and b) leadership that was consistent and relatively transparent?  Were mistakes made?  Sure.  But you didn't have that leadership downplaying the risks and costs, or throwing its own health experts under the bus.

And yes, Trump is very directly responsible for all those Kens and Karens out there who believe the level of risk is a hoax, that the virus is under control, that it will disappear, that the USA is doing better than any other country in the world, etc, etc.

TheDeamon

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2171 on: July 08, 2020, 02:42:08 PM »

I suspect even the Trump supporters that lose parents to covid wouldn't hold it against Trump

I think you need to be careful about assigning blame to Trump for this whole situation. Would another President have handled it better? Maybe. Some conservatives here have argued that Biden was saying even worse stuff originally re: travel ban, but let's leave off comparisons and talk about the situation in America. It's no secret that Americans basically hold in contempt 'passive' and 'obedient' populations, nanny states, and authoritarian Asian-style governments. All the ingredients that are needed for people to do what they're told and not deviate are anathema to the American mentality. The entire world knows that Americans are rebellious, willful, and even paranoid about being told what to do. I think "don't tell me what to do!!!" (with all three exclamation points) might be the most accurate slogan for the States. In some respects this is admirable and attracts praise, especially in regard to the American drive for success and freedom. But in other respects it's a giant spectacle of shame as the world listens to news report after news report of Americans failing to be able to do things of basic civic responsibility that would be a no-brainer in Sweden or South Korea. So there are pluses and minuses, and situations where the American mentality has benefits, and others where there are drawbacks. Any situation where you really need people to agree and help each other out in a general cause is going to be a big failure in America, especially right now. The exception is a major war, as all the paranoia makes everyone too scared to go against it.

It is our greatest strength, but also our greatest weakness. But also, a handful of certain other nations also has to be taking note of this and realizing that if our citizenry is more than willing to risk covid19 infection. That it is also reasonable to assume that America retains the ability to become every bit as scary as it has been in the past when it come to numerous other wars in the past. Covid19 still terrifies the CCP and much of the rest of the world, and in the mean time America is just responding to it with a shrug at this point.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 02:46:30 PM by TheDeamon »

Kasandra

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2172 on: July 08, 2020, 03:38:45 PM »

I suspect even the Trump supporters that lose parents to covid wouldn't hold it against Trump

I think you need to be careful about assigning blame to Trump for this whole situation. Would another President have handled it better? Maybe. Some conservatives here have argued that Biden was saying even worse stuff originally re: travel ban, but let's leave off comparisons and talk about the situation in America. It's no secret that Americans basically hold in contempt 'passive' and 'obedient' populations, nanny states, and authoritarian Asian-style governments. All the ingredients that are needed for people to do what they're told and not deviate are anathema to the American mentality. The entire world knows that Americans are rebellious, willful, and even paranoid about being told what to do. I think "don't tell me what to do!!!" (with all three exclamation points) might be the most accurate slogan for the States. In some respects this is admirable and attracts praise, especially in regard to the American drive for success and freedom. But in other respects it's a giant spectacle of shame as the world listens to news report after news report of Americans failing to be able to do things of basic civic responsibility that would be a no-brainer in Sweden or South Korea. So there are pluses and minuses, and situations where the American mentality has benefits, and others where there are drawbacks. Any situation where you really need people to agree and help each other out in a general cause is going to be a big failure in America, especially right now. The exception is a major war, as all the paranoia makes everyone too scared to go against it.

It is our greatest strength, but also our greatest weakness. But also, a handful of certain other nations also has to be taking note of this and realizing that if our citizenry is more than willing to risk covid19 infection. That it is also reasonable to assume that America retains the ability to become every bit as scary as it has been in the past when it come to numerous other wars in the past. Covid19 still terrifies the CCP and much of the rest of the world, and in the mean time America is just responding to it with a shrug at this point.

That is worse than sad and pathetic.  By your "logic" they'll respect us even more if we park our old and useless generation in parking lots and watch them die, because you have to be *really* strong to do that.  Show 'em how by offing the elders in your family that way.  Our weakness is that we're not willing to do that openly, but just kind of shrug while people die needlessly because we don't have the nerve or discipline to stop the dying.  Prove that you're not one of the weaklings, pick someone and let them die.

This place has a deep sickness.  I'm done posting here.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2173 on: July 08, 2020, 03:53:30 PM »
It is our greatest strength, but also our greatest weakness. But also, a handful of certain other nations also has to be taking note of this and realizing that if our citizenry is more than willing to risk covid19 infection. That it is also reasonable to assume that America retains the ability to become every bit as scary as it has been in the past when it come to numerous other wars in the past. Covid19 still terrifies the CCP and much of the rest of the world, and in the mean time America is just responding to it with a shrug at this point.
This ignores that a large portion of the population of the USA is seemingly too stupid to appreciate the risks of COVID-19, or at the least is able to be kept ignorant by its leadership.  I suppose the latter group might be scary to the rest of the world, but antagonistic countries are basically laughing at the USA and its growing allergy and aversion to knowledge and science.  I also think that those antagonistic countries are gleeful over how that ignorance leaves the country open to manipulation and division by both outside and inside forces.

Now, I suppose if you ignore all that and assume that the populace is making informed decisions, then you have to accept that the USA simply doesn't care about its elderly and less than healthy; I can't see how being ambivalent about the elderly is scary to other countries, but it would be one more data point that has led to the rest of the world pitying what seems to have happened to the USA.

TheDeamon

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2174 on: July 08, 2020, 04:18:25 PM »
It is our greatest strength, but also our greatest weakness. But also, a handful of certain other nations also has to be taking note of this and realizing that if our citizenry is more than willing to risk covid19 infection. That it is also reasonable to assume that America retains the ability to become every bit as scary as it has been in the past when it come to numerous other wars in the past. Covid19 still terrifies the CCP and much of the rest of the world, and in the mean time America is just responding to it with a shrug at this point.
This ignores that a large portion of the population of the USA is seemingly too stupid to appreciate the risks of COVID-19, or at the least is able to be kept ignorant by its leadership.  I suppose the latter group might be scary to the rest of the world, but antagonistic countries are basically laughing at the USA and its growing allergy and aversion to knowledge and science.  I also think that those antagonistic countries are gleeful over how that ignorance leaves the country open to manipulation and division by both outside and inside forces.

Now, I suppose if you ignore all that and assume that the populace is making informed decisions, then you have to accept that the USA simply doesn't care about its elderly and less than healthy; I can't see how being ambivalent about the elderly is scary to other countries, but it would be one more data point that has led to the rest of the world pitying what seems to have happened to the USA.

You assume that a great number of don't understand the risks, have weighed it against other considerations, and made decisions of their own on the subject. Plenty of idiots among them, and very few people are going openly for "let the old people die" unless you mean Cuomo in NY and the nursing home thing.

I was speaking more to the matter of them having the idea, much like Japan did in 1941, the "america is weak" and by dealing a hard enough blow against either our military or our civilian population will make us cave in to what they (or others) want.

We're at over 100,000 dead to Covid19, and on course to see a lot more, and a large portion of the population is indifferent on the matter, and plenty of others want to either keep things open, or open them further, even knowing that will cause the number of deaths to continue to increase.

This isn't a "peen contest." It's just a stark commentary that after a belligerent power sees that kind of public response to Covid19, they have to be thinking very long, and very hard about any scenario their Generals have cooked up where they thought they could provoke a military fight against the US and be able to obtain a victory against the US without needing to kill a few tens of thousands of US Military forces first, and given the force multipliers the US likes to use, that's going to be highly unpleasant if you intend to fight a war against the US without going nuclear.

China is the big one on that as they have at least one General who made a public comment about only needing to sink a single carrier to get the US to disengage from a possible war with them.

rightleft22

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2175 on: July 08, 2020, 04:29:07 PM »

I suspect even the Trump supporters that lose parents to covid wouldn't hold it against Trump

I think you need to be careful about assigning blame to Trump for this whole situation. Would another President have handled it better? Maybe. Some conservatives here have argued that Biden was saying even worse stuff originally re: travel ban, but let's leave off comparisons and talk about the situation in America. It's no secret that Americans basically hold in contempt 'passive' and 'obedient' populations, nanny states, and authoritarian Asian-style governments. All the ingredients that are needed for people to do what they're told and not deviate are anathema to the American mentality. The entire world knows that Americans are rebellious, willful, and even paranoid about being told what to do. I think "don't tell me what to do!!!" (with all three exclamation points) might be the most accurate slogan for the States. In some respects this is admirable and attracts praise, especially in regard to the American drive for success and freedom. But in other respects it's a giant spectacle of shame as the world listens to news report after news report of Americans failing to be able to do things of basic civic responsibility that would be a no-brainer in Sweden or South Korea. So there are pluses and minuses, and situations where the American mentality has benefits, and others where there are drawbacks. Any situation where you really need people to agree and help each other out in a general cause is going to be a big failure in America, especially right now. The exception is a major war, as all the paranoia makes everyone too scared to go against it.

It is our greatest strength, but also our greatest weakness. But also, a handful of certain other nations also has to be taking note of this and realizing that if our citizenry is more than willing to risk covid19 infection. That it is also reasonable to assume that America retains the ability to become every bit as scary as it has been in the past when it come to numerous other wars in the past. Covid19 still terrifies the CCP and much of the rest of the world, and in the mean time America is just responding to it with a shrug at this point.

I suspect the cost of lost service men and woman and the cost of losing older people due to covid would be assessed differently.

I don't think the public concern and response to the elderly dying due to covid would be the same as the loss of life of even a few service men.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2176 on: July 08, 2020, 04:35:21 PM »
This isn't a "peen contest." It's just a stark commentary that after a belligerent power sees that kind of public response to Covid19, they have to be thinking very long, and very hard about any scenario their Generals have cooked up where they thought they could provoke a military fight against the US and be able to obtain a victory against the US without needing to kill a few tens of thousands of US Military forces first, and given the force multipliers the US likes to use, that's going to be highly unpleasant if you intend to fight a war against the US without going nuclear.

China is the big one on that as they have at least one General who made a public comment about only needing to sink a single carrier to get the US to disengage from a possible war with them.
No country is going to "fight" the USA militarily, but that has nothing to do with whether the USA is either too stupid to understand the risks, nor with it being too uncaring about its citizens.

But the stupidity and cupidity displayed by the USA recently is an open invitation to other forms of antagonism and manipulation. Example #1 - Russia has successfully put bounties on the USA military, and the USA is hamstrung and cannot respond.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2177 on: July 08, 2020, 11:14:19 PM »
The USA just blasted through 60,000 new daily cases today, and the country has seen 29 days of unbroken increases in the 7-day average. 

The number of new daily cases has more than tripled in less than a month, and daily deaths have increased to a level not seen in a month.

TheDeamon

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2178 on: July 09, 2020, 01:47:10 AM »
China is the big one on that as they have at least one General who made a public comment about only needing to sink a single carrier to get the US to disengage from a possible war with them.
No country is going to "fight" the USA militarily, but that has nothing to do with whether the USA is either too stupid to understand the risks, nor with it being too uncaring about its citizens.

Conversely, I think you also have a slightly different thing going on in China. China is likely terrified of Covid19 because if they can't keep a lid on its spread and people start to die in significant numbers, they expect a mass revolt.

Meanwhile the United States saw a mass revolt after trying to keep a lid on the spread.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2179 on: July 09, 2020, 08:18:05 AM »
Meanwhile the United States saw a mass revolt after trying to keep a lid on the spread.
??

Which revolt was that? 

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2180 on: July 09, 2020, 09:26:34 AM »
Correlation is not causation, but... Tulsa health official: Trump rally ‘likely’ source of virus surge

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OKLAHOMA CITY — President Donald Trump’s campaign rally in Tulsa in late June that drew thousands of participants and large protests “likely contributed” to a dramatic surge in new coronavirus cases, Tulsa City-County Health Department Director Dr. Bruce Dart said Wednesday.

Tulsa County reported 261 confirmed new cases on Monday, a one-day record high, and another 206 cases on Tuesday. By comparison, during the week before the June 20 Trump rally, there were 76 cases on Monday and 96 on Tuesday.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2181 on: July 09, 2020, 11:31:37 AM »
Texas deaths over the past few days:

July 6: 60
July 7: 90
July 8: 119

This wave is following one month after the reopening of bars and other "phase 3" loosening of restrictions on June 11.

In case anyone wants to do the math, 119 x 365 = 43,435 annually. For Texas. We can only hope that 119 is an anomaly, or that somebody can magically put this genie back in the bottle.

But you know, Texas loves their freedom. So fortunate. Meanwhile the evil freedom-hating New Yorkers are enjoying a dramatic turnaround and a flattened curve.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2182 on: July 09, 2020, 11:52:07 AM »
Coincidentally, Florida also reported 'at least' 120 new COVID-19 deaths yesterday.  That beat Florida's previous record of 83, set back in April.

Again, hopefully that's an anomaly.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2183 on: July 09, 2020, 12:25:54 PM »
And the hits keep coming - fantastic: Coronavirus pandemic could cause wave of brain damage, scientists warn

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Experts at the University College London (UCL) were the latest to describe that Covid-19 could cause neurological complications including stroke, nerve damage, and potentially fatal brain inflammation -- even if the patients didn't show severe respiratory symptoms associated with the disease.
"We should be vigilant and look out for these complications in people who have had Covid-19," said joint senior author Dr. Michael Zandi in a UCL press release, warning that it remains to be seen "whether we will see an epidemic on a large scale of brain damage linked to the pandemic."

yossarian22c

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2184 on: July 09, 2020, 12:50:42 PM »
The bury your head in the sand approach to the coronavirus. Trump is responsible for this type of stupid coming out of the GOP.

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Ohio state Rep. Nino Vitale is urging his constituents not to get tested for the coronavirus...

"This is what happens when people go crazy and get tested," Vitale wrote on Facebook this week. "STOP GETTING TESTED!"

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2185 on: July 10, 2020, 06:45:41 AM »
Two days straight of over 60,000 new daily cases, and the highest 3-day average number of days in a month...

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2186 on: July 10, 2020, 09:01:45 AM »
Florida is now seeing roughly the same number of new daily cases as did New York at its peak - although:
  • by that time, New York was in almost complete shutdown and had shelter-in-place going on
  • New York's shelter in place order was implemented 2 weeks prior to the new daily case peak
  • Florida is only grudgingly restricting certain activities, whereas the vast majority of New Yorkers were on board with restrictions
From what I can see, the state is still suggesting that people avoid groups of more than 50 people, there is no suggestion for anybody to segregate household groups, never mind shelter in place, although there is an advisory to "Avoid crowds, closed spaces and close contact".  That and, well, governor DeSantis hasn't exactly been unequivocal about the risks associated to the spread of the virus.

Should Florida do more, up to and including directives to avoid leaving homes as much as is feasible? 

Clearly, Florida in July is not New York in March, and the ability to stay indoors during the summer heat may or may not be feasible.  Without knowing more about the situation in Florida, however, I think the state should be much more aggressive in its messaging, if it really is serious about avoiding an explosion of cases - and that should include direction for people to avoid all contact with those outside their immediate households, limiting outings to absolute necessities, and when it is necessary to leave one's home, to avoid close contact with anybody outside their household AND to wear face covering whenever indoors and whenever maintaining distances of more than 2 metres outdoors is not feasible.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2187 on: July 10, 2020, 10:27:03 AM »
... or not.  Ron DeSantis, governor of Florida:

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If you can do Home Depot, if you can do Walmart, if you can do these things, we can absolutely do the schools.

I think he missed the word "successfully" somewhere in that statement.

Florida will never get the pandemic under control with this yahoo throwing out disinformation to his constituents.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2188 on: July 10, 2020, 02:17:32 PM »
Stupid is as stupid does: Mississippi lawmakers contract COVID-19

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A growing number of Mississippi lawmakers are testing positive for the novel coronavirus, following a month of working together in close proximity at the State Capitol building without wearing face masks.


As of Wednesday, at least 26 lawmakers -- or one in seven Mississippi legislators -- have been diagnosed with the coronavirus in the largest known outbreak of any state legislature in the nation.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2189 on: July 10, 2020, 09:40:46 PM »
And a big jump to 71,800 new cases today...

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2190 on: July 11, 2020, 09:12:43 PM »
Almost 62,000 new daily cases today - the second highest daily count of the pandemic and today was Saturday.  For comparison purposes, that's 12,000 more new daily cases than the previous record Saturday (last week).

The 732 recorded deaths is the highest Saturday death count since May 17, almost 2 months.


DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2191 on: July 13, 2020, 08:20:04 AM »
Some different perspectives on the pandemic, and mask wearing, as described by MLB Tampa Bay Rays' catcher Kevan Smith:
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"Pennsylvania feels like a lot different up there than down here. Obviously the numbers are a lot worse here. But I felt like you couldn't even walk outside without a mask on [at home]. And then here [in Florida], you go out with a mask and we have guys getting called names and all of the above. So just a totally different feel around the country.

[A Rays teammate] was in a store shopping for food and was called a pansy. It's like little do they know.
"I went out briefly to just pick up some takeout food and I swear I got like a dozen eyeballs on me looking at me like I'm the weird [one] walking in with my mask. Little do they know what is at stake for my life and for my livelihood. It's just very immature or whatever you want to call it. But it's just comical, I mean it. It's going on all over the world. We're seeing it firsthand here, so we've just got to stick within our realm and just do what we've got to do to stay responsible and everything should be fine."

Of course, their experiences are anecdotal - an anecdote is NOT statistics - but it does talk to specific neighbourhoods or regions having different attitudes.

Then there's this poor fellow who attended a "COVID party" (I'm not posting this to prove or refute the existence or frequency of COVID parties, just for the man's reaction):

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SAN ANTONIO, Texas (WJW) — A 30-year-old man died after attending a “COVID Party” in the San Antonio, Texas area.

...

Before he passed, the patient reportedly told his nurse “I think I made a mistake. I thought this was a hoax, but it’s not.”

“He didn’t really believe. He thought he was young and he was invincible and wouldn’t get affected by the disease,” Dr. Appleby said.

rightleft22

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2192 on: July 13, 2020, 11:10:54 AM »
I ware a mask at the grocery store and a man waking by made the comment about protecting myself and being a wuss.
Sad as I was wearing the mask as I didn't want anyone becoming uncomfortable if I coughed or sneezed due to allergies.

Even after all this time people don't realize that you wear a mask to protect others not so much yourself.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2193 on: July 13, 2020, 11:32:19 AM »
A sobering thought (as if we there aren't enough of those already): Florida yesterday reported more than 15,000 new daily cases.

That number of new daily cases has only ever been exceeded by 3 countries: Brazil, India, and (obviously) the USA.  New York state never even came close (maxing out at about 11,000 new daily cases).

rightleft22

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2194 on: July 13, 2020, 11:35:18 AM »
A sobering thought (as if we there aren't enough of those already): Florida yesterday reported more than 15,000 new daily cases.

That number of new daily cases has only ever been exceeded by 3 countries: Brazil, India, and (obviously) the USA.  New York state never even came close (maxing out at about 11,000 new daily cases).

do we know the hospitalization and death rate in relationship to those numbers?
 

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2195 on: July 13, 2020, 12:08:54 PM »

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2196 on: July 13, 2020, 01:18:22 PM »
On the seven day moving average, FL has 72 people die daily of covid. Standard annual deaths from all causes are 556 per day.

TheDeamon

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2197 on: July 13, 2020, 02:37:08 PM »
Meanwhile Idaho seems to be doing okay, out hospitalization rate has ticked up, but the curve has flattened back out after the Boise area was rolled back to Stage 3.

msquared

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2198 on: July 13, 2020, 02:41:12 PM »
If Trump had just said wearing a mask was the best way to restart the economy, and then wore a mask himself, so that his followers could say they were listening to him, I bet half of the problems we are having would not be happening.

I understand wanting to get the economy going again. And if masks are a good first step, instead of thinking it will just go away, like magic, some day (who knows how far in the future), then push masks. Don't demonize them.

DonaldD

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2199 on: July 13, 2020, 03:04:10 PM »
Absolutely agreed - just wearing masks will reduce the spread significantly, and the resulting drop in cases will allow regions to 're-open' more safely and would lead to more people being confident enough to rejoin society more generally.  If people were to continue with being more cautious, with social distancing, avoiding crowds and 'tight quarters' then even better, but wearing a mask is such an obvious first step at this point.