Author Topic: coronavirus  (Read 670589 times)

yossarian22c

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2850 on: March 19, 2021, 10:02:11 AM »
I wonder how many talking heads on Fox have gotten the vaccine?

Now another question.

At what point do we start really reopening? What percentage of the population vaccinated?  What level of illness, hospitalization and death rate will be acceptable? 

I mean there has to be some level? We keep open in flu seasons where thousands die every year.

I think real reopening happens after the vaccine is available for everyone who wants it.

msquared

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2851 on: March 19, 2021, 10:11:55 AM »
yeah but that will take time and then there will be those who do not want it. What if we only get to 70% of the population getting the vaccine?  Is that enough to keep Covid down?  I don't think so.  I think we need to be at 80-85% vaccinated before we reopen completely, and by that I mean no mask mandates (of course people can still wear them if they want) and social distancing is not a thing any more. Or are we going to be some sort of distancing for a long time?

NobleHunter

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2852 on: March 19, 2021, 10:16:24 AM »
2 weeks after 85% of people have gotten at least one shot.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2853 on: March 19, 2021, 11:01:20 AM »
To reopen? All we really need to do is get covid into the background noise of ailments. We don't have to eradicate it like polio. We don't need 85% vaccination for that.

yossarian22c

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2854 on: March 19, 2021, 11:03:43 AM »
I agree we are likely going to need 85+%. Particularly if a strain mutates to spread more easily among children. I think we can see some degree of normalcy this fall after all adults who want or can be persuaded to get the vaccine get one. I think the some 12+ vaccine studies should be finished by then so we can start with high school students.

But it will be a long time before I feel comfortable in a crowded indoor setting, particularly without a mask.

msquared

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2855 on: March 19, 2021, 11:24:42 AM »
TheDrake, I agree with the basic statement, but what level is background?

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2856 on: March 19, 2021, 12:42:24 PM »
TheDrake, I agree with the basic statement, but what level is background?

When it isn't remarkable. When it can be thought of as "just a flu" when you don't have to give it a second thought.

msquared

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2857 on: March 22, 2021, 01:47:35 PM »
Well we will pass 540,000 dead as of today.  It took 36 days to get that next 60,000.  At least the death rate is declining. 420,000 to 480,000 only took 20 days and averaged 3,000/day deaths.  That has been cut in almost half, down to 1,667/day.  Let's hope part of that is the vaccine and that as the vaccine roll out continues, the rate keeps dropping.  Maybe we will not hit 600,000 deaths.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2858 on: March 22, 2021, 06:41:08 PM »

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2859 on: March 27, 2021, 06:56:54 PM »
Got my first Moderna vaccine jab yesterday! No side effects of any significance.

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2860 on: March 28, 2021, 11:52:02 AM »
Krispy Kreme will give you a free doughnut every day this year — if you've been vaccinated

That's a lot of donuts.

Two-thirds of the US population is clinically obese or just plain fat. The majority of people having serious complications and/or dying from covid are fat and/or diabetic.

We at Krispy Kreme want to congratulate you on getting the vaccine - you've done a Good Thing. Now eat a free donut. Every day!

In related news, Oscar Meyer is offering a free package of bacon to anyone showing proof of a Lipitor prescription.

Aris Katsaris

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2861 on: March 28, 2021, 12:47:44 PM »
Got my first Moderna vaccine jab yesterday! No side effects of any significance.

Am envious. Europe has really messed up with how slow it is compared to USA and UK (let alone countries like Israel) -- to the point that my 72-year old diabetic father is scheduled to get his first jab only on April 20.

LetterRip

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2862 on: March 28, 2021, 05:59:38 PM »
Got my first shot today (in Arizona it was opened to everyone 16+ a few days ago, and was able to get a slot - I don't have any age or health or work risk factors so was initially expecting to be quite far off) and scheduled for my second in 3 weeks.  I really wasn't expecting to be eligible till mid May or so, I'm a bit concerned that elderly and essential workers might not have been signing up as much as might be desired has changed the timeline.

I also checked the Alaska sign ups, and there are tons of open slots, yet about only 1/5th of the population has gotten both shots.

So I'm a bit concerned we will be nowhere close to herd immunity due to many people not getting vaccinated.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2863 on: March 29, 2021, 02:00:01 PM »
Got my first shot today (in Arizona it was opened to everyone 16+ a few days ago, and was able to get a slot - I don't have any age or health or work risk factors so was initially expecting to be quite far off) and scheduled for my second in 3 weeks.  I really wasn't expecting to be eligible till mid May or so, I'm a bit concerned that elderly and essential workers might not have been signing up as much as might be desired has changed the timeline.

I also checked the Alaska sign ups, and there are tons of open slots, yet about only 1/5th of the population has gotten both shots.

So I'm a bit concerned we will be nowhere close to herd immunity due to many people not getting vaccinated.

Well, the other viable option is that they all get sick. There's 30 million of those. It's all moot anyway, sooner or later Brazil is going to generate a variant that the vaccines can't stop.

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2864 on: March 29, 2021, 02:02:43 PM »
Exactly. If I'm understanding Fauci, a vaccinated populous is no reason to let our guard down. Distancing and masking are still required until we know which variants may possibly come up at some point in the future. We must remain vigilant.

yossarian22c

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2865 on: March 29, 2021, 03:14:33 PM »
I got my first shot a week ago in NC. One underlying health condition. Appointments were hard to come by. The state has decided to open it up to all adults beginning in two weeks. I hope once the vaccine is more readily available in pharmacies and doctors offices we'll get the 40% of the population that isn't highly motivated to get it vaccinated.

edgmatt

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2866 on: March 29, 2021, 09:44:45 PM »
Quote
If I'm understanding Fauci, a vaccinated populous is no reason to let our guard down. Distancing and masking are still required until we know which variants may possibly come up at some point in the future. We must remain vigilant.

To what end? 

If vaccines are not going to cut it, and there's going to be mutated versions....then what?

Lock it up?  GG Earth?

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2867 on: March 29, 2021, 10:16:53 PM »
Quote
If I'm understanding Fauci, a vaccinated populous is no reason to let our guard down. Distancing and masking are still required until we know which variants may possibly come up at some point in the future. We must remain vigilant.

To what end? 

If vaccines are not going to cut it, and there's going to be mutated versions....then what?

Lock it up?  GG Earth?

Ever see twelve monkeys?

edgmatt

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2868 on: March 29, 2021, 10:40:43 PM »
LOL, is that where you think this is headed? :o

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2869 on: March 30, 2021, 12:50:16 AM »
Quote
If I'm understanding Fauci, a vaccinated populous is no reason to let our guard down. Distancing and masking are still required until we know which variants may possibly come up at some point in the future. We must remain vigilant.

To what end? 

If vaccines are not going to cut it, and there's going to be mutated versions....then what?

Lock it up?  GG Earth?

In the words of Dr. Fauci “Now is not the time to pull back on safety measures...” Get vaccinated, continue to mask, distance and avoid any gatherings.

edgmatt

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2870 on: March 30, 2021, 07:57:07 AM »
Right, I read that....I'm asking "to what end"?  What's the endgame here?  What goal are we looking to achieve so that business's can run at full capacity and the masks can disappear?

oldbrian

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2871 on: March 30, 2021, 09:01:28 AM »
Scott -

How are you jumping from "NOW is not the time..."
to 'it will NEVER be the time'?

What has Fauci said that makes you think he supports perpetual hype-rvigilance?

Edgmatt - when the case load no longer threatens to overwhelm our health care system.  Either by building tons more rapid care clinics, or by reducing the viral load to a manageable portion of the population.  As someone above stated - when it is as bad as the flu season.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 09:04:23 AM by oldbrian »

edgmatt

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2872 on: March 30, 2021, 09:20:51 AM »
Is that not "now"?

99.5% survival rate for ages 50-69, better for younger groups.

Hospitals are not at full capacity, beds are not at full capacity.

Covid is taking up 8% of in patient beds

Did we not "flatten the curve" as was the stated first goal a year ago?  The load seems like its manageable to me.  Flu season is 'unusually low', so are we going to try to get covid down to 'unusually low' or 'normal'?   ( I won't speculate as to the 'why' normal flu is 'unusually low'.)

Education is on a downward spiral, depression, alcoholism, suicide and other 'bad' things are sky rocketing and the economy is floundering.  "Staying vigilant" against this thing is doing much more harm than good.  How much more of "killing the patient to cure the disease" are we going to do to ourselves?

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2873 on: March 30, 2021, 09:33:12 AM »
Why shouldn't we wait two more months when nearly everyone who is willing to be vaccinated gets vaccinated? If people had stayed vigilant in november and December, we would not have nearly overwhelmed the system, thousands more would be alive, and additional thousands would not be suffering from long covid aftermath. So we really want to have another binge now?

LetterRip

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2874 on: March 30, 2021, 11:14:54 AM »
The problem with openning prior to widespread vaccinations is that it creates a situation that helps the virus mutate to infect vaccinated people - it has a high enough unvaccinated pool available to keep spreading, and exposure to enough vaccinated and immune people to create selective pressure.

If you keep limiting spread till vaccination is widespread - you drop the Ro low enough to kill the virus and limit is opportunity to mutate around the vaccine.

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2875 on: March 30, 2021, 11:57:09 AM »
Scott -

How are you jumping from "NOW is not the time..."
to 'it will NEVER be the time'?

What has Fauci said that makes you think he supports perpetual hype-rvigilance?


He has repeatedly referred to uncertainty and the future possibility of a rise in variants as the reason for continued vigilance. "We just don't know".

It is not a stretch to infer from his perspective that while uncertainty exists, he will recommend we remain vigilant. This includes masking and distancing until such uncertainties and unknowns abate.

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2876 on: March 30, 2021, 12:05:44 PM »
It is not a stretch to infer from his perspective that while uncertainty exists, he will recommend we remain vigilant. This includes masking and distancing until such uncertainties and unknowns abate.

I have also been very curious to see, come September, whether governments will begin to actively announce that masks can now be dispensed with and that social distancing is no longer a security necessity. Now it's not just a scientific question, because as with any medium-term policy, the question has to be "where is this going, and what is the exit strategy." It's not dissimilar to going to war (sorry, police action) in some sense. It's not enough to take a measure, but it must also be clear what the end-point is and whether there is an understanding of whether there will be clarity about when it can stop.

Now I'm not exactly saying that precautions should end too early. But I also don't believe in the notion that wearing masks and staying away from people and never hugging friends will be the new normal for humanity on an ongoing basis, even if covid-19 variants persist and the vaccines cannot appropriately protect from them. I am all for precautions now (and think they should have gone far further in March-April 2020), but also against the idea of sacrificing the quality of life for all for years to come in order to amplify health precautions for some.

So I will be very happy if there is some kind of consensus in the fall that we've done enough and that things are as safe as we can reasonably make it. But if safe isn't safe enough then I think the issue will turn.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2877 on: March 30, 2021, 12:38:04 PM »
Exit strategy, you mean like having a phased plan for reopening predicated on objectively measured criteria like positive case rates and other metrics? The kind that got ignored by citizens and politicians alike?

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2878 on: March 30, 2021, 12:42:31 PM »
Exit strategy, you mean like having a phased plan for reopening predicated on objectively measured criteria like positive case rates and other metrics? The kind that got ignored by citizens and politicians alike?

For example. But that wasn't really an exit strategy, more like a physics experiment. Because even if those measures had been universally followed it would easily have been possible that the conclusions of the experiment would have suggested that it was a failure, and that stricter precautions were needed after all. So I am not talking about attempts to mitigate the current flow of hospitalizations, I'm talking about a cut and dried exit plan, where as far as everyday living is concerned it would be effectively over.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2879 on: March 30, 2021, 01:00:13 PM »
It's just a good idea to keep some of the measures permanently, and never need to be over. Do I really need people to be adjacent to me in line at the grocery store? Shaking hands with strangers should probably go away forever. Other measures like distance learning might be important to eliminate for young children but actually beneficial to keep in higher learning. In my mind we shouldn't think of it as "that's over now let's live like we did in 2019". Partly because this virus is likely to be with us indefinitely, but also because it is highly likely more viruses will appear. I'd like to see businesses maintain the option for remote work for anyone who wants it. I'd like to see meat processing plants regulated to create better health for their workers who are currently all on top of each other.

Now, perhaps you're thinking more about government capacity limitations and other restrictions, rather than government recommendations? I think that's debatable, but it involves having a permanently flattened curve rather than exponential spread, instead of yo-yoing from swampy peak to manageable background. Take a look at influenza charts, statistics like hospitalization go linear within a couple of weeks of onset spread.

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2880 on: March 30, 2021, 01:28:02 PM »
It's just a good idea to keep some of the measures permanently, and never need to be over.

There is more at stake than merely convenience and comfort. For example the Chinese have always been more prone to wear masks in public to protect against health hazards, and for the most part Westerners scoff or even frown at this. And part of it is more than cultural merely in the sense of aesthetics. China has a culture that places much more of a premium on security and stability than the USA does, and the personal ethic of a Western democracy is that one needs to allow certain amounts of freedom and danger in order to foster diversity of thought, as compared with a more closed and protected society where chaos is viewed as dangerous. The mask in public is part and parcel of this divide, and it is more than just a medical issue when discussing the nature of how Americans need to comport themselves in order to keep their cultural values in the fore of their consciousness. Mistrust of others is more or less antithetical to the democratic and capitalist positions, and damaging to their strengths.

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Do I really need people to be adjacent to me in line at the grocery store?

Maybe not.

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Shaking hands with strangers should probably go away forever.

You've got to be careful with this one. People literally need lots of exposure to virulence and 'danger.' I used to joke to my wife that our son was too clean, and that we should just put him in a mud puddle on principle to get some more germs into his system. And with covid keeping people apart, especially during the lives of young people, this is no joke. And it seems to be the common consensus now that, for instance, avoiding allergens in babies causes them long-term problems in the form of allergies, so that now advice to parents includes the mandate to carefully and slowly introduce allergens as early as reasonably possible. You definitely do not want to change your way of life in order to avoid the exchange of germs. If you don't like shaking hands that's fine, but I would recommend maybe playing a little Red Rover to make up for  :)

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Other measures like distance learning might be important to eliminate for young children but actually beneficial to keep in higher learning.

Maybe, maybe not. Online courses and remote teaching definitely have possibilities and open up avenues, but the in-person leaning experience is more than just receiving information.

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I'd like to see businesses maintain the option for remote work for anyone who wants it. I'd like to see meat processing plants regulated to create better health for their workers who are currently all on top of each other.

I also hope that remote work remains an industry standard in some contexts, but I fear it may also exacerbate or accelerate the outsourcing of labor. But agreed about unhealthy environments needing a reboot. This should have happened massively last summer, and I view it as a disappointment that it didn't.

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Now, perhaps you're thinking more about government capacity limitations and other restrictions, rather than government recommendations? I think that's debatable, but it involves having a permanently flattened curve rather than exponential spread, instead of yo-yoing from swampy peak to manageable background.

I'm talking more about the ethical position of insisting that people radically alter their lives to protect a minority. I already think something along these lines when it comes to tolerated foods in schools; namely that the protection of a small minority places stringent restrictions on the majority in order to cater to them. In the case of a society-wide restriction there is a certain limit beyond which I think it actually is asking too much, and in fact it may not even be ethical to ask. What that limit is is a question, but I am not in doubt that there is a limit.

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2881 on: March 30, 2021, 03:01:08 PM »
"About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study Monday."

This is highly unconventional, but maybe instead of reconstructing how and when humans gather, we should focus on helping fat people getting less fat and let our immune systems do their thing.

I know, absurd. Next they'll try to tell us that “sunshine” and “exercise” are better ways to avoid getting sick than masks. Welp, I'm off to Krispy Kreme to use my donut card, er, vaccination card.

LetterRip

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2882 on: March 30, 2021, 03:28:06 PM »
"About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study Monday."

This is highly unconventional, but maybe instead of reconstructing how and when humans gather, we should focus on helping fat people getting less fat and let our immune systems do their thing.

I know, absurd. Next they'll try to tell us that “sunshine” and “exercise” are better ways to avoid getting sick than masks. Welp, I'm off to Krispy Kreme to use my donut card, er, vaccination card.

I think you are assuming causation when it may not have much relationship. Often poor health results in reduced physical activity resulting in obesity - rather than obesity leading to poor health.  Obesity relation with aging is due to changes in lean muscle mass that are driven by hormonal factors.

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2883 on: March 30, 2021, 03:46:26 PM »
Often poor health results in reduced physical activity resulting in obesity - rather than obesity leading to poor health.

I agree that there are many people who use that logic to justify their current physiology.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2884 on: March 30, 2021, 04:46:18 PM »
"About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study Monday."

This is highly unconventional, but maybe instead of reconstructing how and when humans gather, we should focus on helping fat people getting less fat and let our immune systems do their thing.

I know, absurd. Next they'll try to tell us that “sunshine” and “exercise” are better ways to avoid getting sick than masks. Welp, I'm off to Krispy Kreme to use my donut card, er, vaccination card.

Intruiging take. We certainly could increase food assistance to make healthier options available, Establish high taxes or outright bans on high fructose corn syrup. Make gym memberships mandatory parts of health plans. That would help with a lot of ailments, including diabetes and heart disease. Establishing mandatory breaks longer than the 15 minutes that currently barely give an employee time to go to the bathroom, let alone walk in the sunshine. Or did you mean instead to shame them for not being healthier?

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2885 on: March 30, 2021, 06:30:08 PM »
"About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study Monday."

This is highly unconventional, but maybe instead of reconstructing how and when humans gather, we should focus on helping fat people getting less fat and let our immune systems do their thing.

I know, absurd. Next they'll try to tell us that “sunshine” and “exercise” are better ways to avoid getting sick than masks. Welp, I'm off to Krispy Kreme to use my donut card, er, vaccination card.

Intruiging take. We certainly could increase food assistance to make healthier options available, Establish high taxes or outright bans on high fructose corn syrup. Make gym memberships mandatory parts of health plans. That would help with a lot of ailments, including diabetes and heart disease. Establishing mandatory breaks longer than the 15 minutes that currently barely give an employee time to go to the bathroom, let alone walk in the sunshine. Or did you mean instead to shame them for not being healthier?

No, I try to be precise and meant the word I used; help.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2886 on: March 30, 2021, 06:37:12 PM »
"About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study Monday."

This is highly unconventional, but maybe instead of reconstructing how and when humans gather, we should focus on helping fat people getting less fat and let our immune systems do their thing.

I know, absurd. Next they'll try to tell us that “sunshine” and “exercise” are better ways to avoid getting sick than masks. Welp, I'm off to Krispy Kreme to use my donut card, er, vaccination card.

Intruiging take. We certainly could increase food assistance to make healthier options available, Establish high taxes or outright bans on high fructose corn syrup. Make gym memberships mandatory parts of health plans. That would help with a lot of ailments, including diabetes and heart disease. Establishing mandatory breaks longer than the 15 minutes that currently barely give an employee time to go to the bathroom, let alone walk in the sunshine. Or did you mean instead to shame them for not being healthier?

No, I try to be precise and meant the word I used; help.

That's pretty vague. What form of help would that be?

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2887 on: March 30, 2021, 07:51:38 PM »
Education and incentives for practicing better health. If we put even 10% of the effort we've put into messaging around distancing and masks into nutrition and exercise that would be a good start.

One would think that if there was a single and glaring contributing factor among those seriously affected by covid that it would be common knowledge. But I suspect the average person is not even aware of the degree to which people overweight people are so massively overrepresented within the data.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2888 on: March 30, 2021, 10:27:51 PM »
We've made great progress with reducing smoking, but it took a full court press.

* banning advertisements
* heavy taxation
* public awareness
* packaging changes
* cessation support

Your "help" sounds completely inadequate, especially since the cheapest food is the worst for you, pushed constantly in media, and many other factors.

Major initiatives to combat childhood obesity haven't really got too far, between promotion of exercise, controls on school lunches, removal of snack and soda machines, and other realistic attempts.

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2889 on: March 30, 2021, 11:52:17 PM »
How about public cafeterias?

Our tax dollars at work.

I enjoyed them when I was in the military. Not quite public but available for anyone in the military which was pretty much everyone around. The one in Yokosuka was outstanding. I even got to work in it for a few months while I was waiting for my ship. So maybe you do a successful four or six month stint of cafeteria duty meaning dishes and cleanup because the chefs will all be professionals and then after that you get free food, or should I say food that you earned by working for it. You might even be able to knock it out part time in high school or some afterwards. Or we could just pay for it out of tax dollars. Then they are set up all over town with more in the densely populated inner cities.

If healthcare is a human right then shouldn't healthful food be one too? It seems like that should actually come before healthcare. Government gyms too maybe. Basically modeled on what you see on military bases. And the same type of discipline will be expected too. Toe the line or lose your privileges, temporarily or permanently depending on the severity of the infraction; no soup for you!

If everyone's diet had been excellent we might not have had such a big problem with Covid and a lot of other health problems would get taken care of too. It would pay for itself, not that you can put a price on your health anyway. We just have to make sure it's modeled on the best mess halls of the best military bases, and absolutely not looking like what we see in our public schools.

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2890 on: March 31, 2021, 12:02:00 AM »
[insert Starship Troopers quote here]

Would you like to know more?

DJQuag

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2891 on: April 02, 2021, 10:55:41 AM »
Eh. Food deserts in urban areas have been talked about for quite a while. This isn't new.

By all means though, I agree that government money should be spent to ensure long term nutritional needs are met in disadvantaged communities.

DJQuag

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2892 on: April 02, 2021, 10:57:10 AM »
Also got my second Oxford vaccine yesterday. No side effects. I can now go back to licking door handles safely.

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2893 on: April 04, 2021, 05:11:58 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/states-open-eligibility-1st-big-090400420.html

"It's not so much hesitancy as it is access for most of our patients," said Dr. Laura Miller, a family physician who mostly treats patients from rural, minority communities in Jefferson Davis County, Mississippi.

Because almost half of all the vaccines in Mississippi have been offered at drive-thru mass vaccination clinics and other state-run sites, Miller sees a lot of patients who want to or need to wait until they can get the vaccine closer to home, in a more familiar setting."

I'm in this camp. I'm feeling like I'd be comfortable taking the Johnson and Johnson vaccine because it's made with the old fashioned DNA technology and not this new fangled mRNA funny business and even though it may be less effective it also seems to have less side effects. Kind of just kidding about the mRNA. It's probably fine, but I'd still prefer the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. If there are problems with it the good outdoes the harm, most likely. I'll be waiting though until I can get it at the local Walmart or Kroger or Target just like I get my flu vaccine, on a walk-in basis with no appointment necessary.

So I agree with the article that for a lot of people it's not that they absolutely won't get it but that they want it to be more convenient in a more familiar setting and not feel like you've got to get on a government watchlist and give away a bunch of your personal information as we see there is some concern about that from privacy watchgroups too though it's mostly having to do with receiving more targeted advertising. Hopefully waiting a little longer might even result in a vaccine that covers some of the variants. I understand though for most people and for society in general the sooner they get it the better.

ScottF

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2894 on: April 05, 2021, 11:07:38 AM »
Is there any data that shows whether those who have natural antibodies as a result of previously having covid benefit from the vaccine?

I know several people in this category who have rushed out to get the vaccine, which seems a bit odd to me.

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2895 on: April 05, 2021, 12:26:52 PM »
Is there any data that shows whether those who have natural antibodies as a result of previously having covid benefit from the vaccine?

I know several people in this category who have rushed out to get the vaccine, which seems a bit odd to me.

Where I live people who have already contracted covid are actually not allowed to get the vaccine; it's considered that they are already immune. However it's on the table that they may be eligible for the 2nd shot down the line.

msquared

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2896 on: April 05, 2021, 12:35:45 PM »
I had Covid in late Dec/early Jan and got my first shot 4 weeks ago.  They would prefer you to wait 90 days after symptoms, but they did not turn me away.  I get my second shot a week from today.  My wife is basically the same (she got it from me and had symptoms a week after I did). We both had what would be called second shot reactions to the first shot (body aches, fatigue, etc). Still planning on getting my second shot.

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2897 on: April 05, 2021, 08:23:05 PM »
https://news.yahoo.com/end-the-hygiene-theater-cdc-says-173440864.html

"Scientists’ changing understanding of the virus has made it difficult for public health experts and elected officials to offer the public consistent advice.

For example, when the pandemic began, Americans were told that face masks were not necessary. That guidance was later amended after it became clear that masks kept a sick person from spreading the disease. Still later, scientists acknowledged that masks also protected the wearer."

They knew the masks would protect people which is why the medical personnel needed them but they also figured they had to give people something to do to make them feel like they were doing something so may as well let them go full OCD on cleaning and hygiene that way at least they can keep busy with something and give themselves a false sense of security which is better for the people in charge than the reality of giving everyone no security at all since we're going to tell them not to do the one thing they could do which would actually help, to wear the best non-N95 masks they can get even if they have to improvise while we save the N95s for the medicos.

"It’s time to unplug the sanitizing robots and put away the bottles of Clorox that seem to line the entrances to every school, restaurant and supermarket wanting to advertise its safety protocols. While such protocols may be reassuring to an anxious populace, they are not necessary, says a revised guidance issued on Monday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“It is possible for people to be infected through contact with contaminated surfaces or objects (fomites), but the risk is generally considered to be low,” the new CDC guidance says, estimating that the chance of contracting the coronavirus through surface transmission is lower than 1 in 10,000."

Finally some reality. I do have to wonder if Walensky had been in charge from the beginning instead of Fauci if maybe her apparent penchant for not lying to the American people just because it's convenient could have resulted in a much better outcome than the one we ended up getting.

Fauci got everything bass ackwards from the get go. Told us not to do what we needed to do and told us to make sure and do what didn't even matter.

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2898 on: April 06, 2021, 07:13:06 AM »
Go ahead and open the schools, they said. Kids are not big spreaders, they said.

Not so fast.

https://news.yahoo.com/people-now-major-covid-spreaders-181511713.html

Kids Are Very Effective at Transmitting the Virus

"Very few cases, in terms of transmission. They did not serve as important sources of the virus to the rest of the community. That has completely turned on its head with B.1.1.7. There are now kids getting infected at the same rate that adults do. They're very effective at transmitting the virus."

Osterholm noted that in Minnesota in the last two weeks, 749 schools had reported COVID cases. "Anywhere you look where you see this emerging, you see that kids are playing a huge role in the transmission of this," he said. "All the things that we had planned for about kids in schools with this virus are really no longer applicable. We've got to take a whole new look at this issue."

How many times are people going to underestimate this virus?

And then there's Fauci again refusing to call it like it is on how dangerous the border situation is in terms of making the pandemic worse. He's got the chance now to help nip it in the bud like he could have done on masks but instead he takes what he thinks is the "safe" route that's going to make the virus problem even worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/fauci-rightwing-republican-criticism-bizarre

Last week Mark Meadows, Trump’s former chief of staff, accused Fauci of remaining silent over conditions at the border. An Alabama congressman also urged Fauci to get involved. In February Marco Rubio, a senator from Florida, criticized Fauci, saying his job “is not to mislead or scare” the American public.

Fauci demurred when asked to respond.

“I am so busy trying to do some important things to preserve the health and the safety of the American people that I can’t be bothered with getting distracted with these people that are doing these ad hominems,” he said.

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People like Fauci don't want to admit the truth about how dangerous the border situation is in terms of the virus now when the problem is still just getting started and being brutally honest could make the most difference. Just like he didn't want to admit the truth about masks in the beginning when it could have made the most difference. Just like others didn't want to admit how dangerous opening schools up too early could be and now we're seeing the results of that too. Everyone who has underestimated the virus has been wrong every single time.


TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2899 on: April 06, 2021, 11:55:18 AM »
The border situation doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the grand scheme, and you ought to know better. For every crowded holding facility, there are 100 frat parties, a thousand packed churches, and ten thousand barbeques.