Author Topic: Trump's fake census  (Read 912 times)

TheDrake

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Trump's fake census
« on: March 05, 2020, 05:06:07 PM »
Facebook removes 'deceptive' Trump census ads

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Facebook has removed a series of misleading adverts from the Donald Trump campaign promoting "the Official 2020 Congressional District Census".

Those who clicked the link in the advert were sent to a page on the Donald Trump website where they were asked to complete a survey.

The survey begins by asking about age and political leaning, before asking questions about Trump talking points such as "Obamacare", "the Democrats' failed Impeachment Witch Hunt" and "Nancy Pelosi and the Radical Left".

Those who fill out the Trump campaign's "census" are ultimately sent to a web page calling for donations.

The BBC saw more than three hundred versions of the advert, each targeting different states and demographics.

For example, one advert specifically targeted men aged over 45 in Texas, whereas another targeted women aged over 45 across the US.

Most adverts were aimed at older people, with one exclusively targeting men and women aged over 65 in Maine, Florida, Arkansas and Arizona.

It is not clear exactly how many adverts were run, or how many people would have seen them, only that most of the adverts had been seen by fewer than one thousand people.

I'll save Crunch some time: "There's nothing at all wrong or improper about this, it's perfectly legal! You've got TDS!"

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2020, 05:46:50 PM »
Now, now, Drake, I don't believe Crunch is saying that anyone here has "TDS" anymore, out of courtesy for myself and others on the board who find it offensive.

And most people will quickly realize that it's a campaign poll just from the questions.

What is worrisome is that some will consider it to be the "official" census.  Some of them will probably not fill out the real census form (especially the first round which they are asked to do on the internet) and require people to come to their door.  Some of them may not even provide information then, having "already done it" on this site.

Which, in the end, will bite Republicans in their hindquarters, since those people will be uncounted, and their districts may not get their full funding and representation. :)

I don't think the people who put this together thought it through very well...

yossarian22c

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2020, 06:36:10 PM »
I don't think the people who put this together thought it through very well...

I don’t think the trump campaign cares about the republican parties prospects after 2020.

Kasandra

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2020, 07:01:40 AM »
I don't think the people who put this together thought it through very well...

I don’t think the trump campaign cares about the republican parties prospects after 2020.

I think they do; they've always wanted to build a base that would provide them a permanent majority in Congress.  Tom Delay said exactly that back around 2000.  They don't care about New York and California, which have 4 Senators.  They'll take the 26 states that have only 18% of the country's population and get 52 Senators instead.  Their tool of choice to reach and hold a majority in the House is gerrymandering, which favors Republicans over Democrats these days.  I'd say they've done pretty well in achieving their objectives and will likely continue to do so.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2020, 07:46:25 AM »
Both parties have always wanted to build a permanent majority. If you remember all the way back in history to 2008, Democrats thought they’d done it. Until relatively recently gerrymandering was favoring Democrats as well - it’s really only in the last two redrawings of districts that Republicans took this particular power scam over.

McConnell and Republicans have been incredibly effective in the aftermath of Obama’s election in 2008. It’s pretty impressive how much they’ve accomplished since 2008 in rebuilding the party infrastructure at the same time as Democrats fracture theirs.


Kasandra

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2020, 08:37:23 AM »
Both parties have always wanted to build a permanent majority. If you remember all the way back in history to 2008, Democrats thought they’d done it. Until relatively recently gerrymandering was favoring Democrats as well - it’s really only in the last two redrawings of districts that Republicans took this particular power scam over.

McConnell and Republicans have been incredibly effective in the aftermath of Obama’s election in 2008. It’s pretty impressive how much they’ve accomplished since 2008 in rebuilding the party infrastructure at the same time as Democrats fracture theirs.

I suspect you're one of those people who would rather turn right in your car 4 times to get to a destination than turn left once.  You should do it with your eyes open, which I'm not sure you think is necessary.

yossarian22c

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2020, 09:28:02 AM »
I don't think the people who put this together thought it through very well...

I don’t think the trump campaign cares about the republican parties prospects after 2020.

I think they do; they've always wanted to build a base that would provide them a permanent majority in Congress.  Tom Delay said exactly that back around 2000.  They don't care about New York and California, which have 4 Senators.  They'll take the 26 states that have only 18% of the country's population and get 52 Senators instead.  Their tool of choice to reach and hold a majority in the House is gerrymandering, which favors Republicans over Democrats these days.  I'd say they've done pretty well in achieving their objectives and will likely continue to do so.

The Trump campaign is not the same as the Republican party. I don't think Trump cares about the prospects of other Republicans post 2020.

Kasandra

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2020, 10:10:47 AM »
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The Trump campaign is not the same as the Republican party. I don't think Trump cares about the prospects of other Republicans post 2020.

The Party's survival imperative will outlive him.  As even Crunch acknowledges, Republicans have put their plans into practice.

yossarian22c

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2020, 10:18:51 AM »
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The Trump campaign is not the same as the Republican party. I don't think Trump cares about the prospects of other Republicans post 2020.

The Party's survival imperative will outlive him.  As even Crunch acknowledges, Republicans have put their plans into practice.

What we're talking about is the Trump campaign trying to collect data by posing as the census. I'm guessing other than getting a little more data short term this has no lasting benefit for republicans and has the potential to bite them in the ass if enough Republicans take the "Trump census" and fail to do the real one. More devious would be if they started targeting cities and minorities with this type of stuff, but made it look even more like the census to try to get an undercount in largely democratic districts and areas.

rightleft22

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2020, 11:40:44 AM »
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What we're talking about is the Trump campaign trying to collect data by posing as the census.

A key Trump campaign strategy (The rallies) is to collect as much personal data as they from its supporters and turn them into devoted followers. The campaign as proved to be very good at using that data to... influence or some might argue manipulate. 
The DNC also collects data but are less effective in there use of it

We like to think were above being influenced by people using our data this way but that would be very naive. If you don't think you can be influenced/manipulated you probably are.

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2020, 11:59:53 AM »
Both parties have always wanted to build a permanent majority. If you remember all the way back in history to 2008, Democrats thought they’d done it.


The big difference is that Democrats thought they had done it by permanently winning over a majority of the country with fairness to all.  Republicans are trying to do it by disenfranchising the majority of the country (or at least enough so that the majority cannot win).

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Until relatively recently gerrymandering was favoring Democrats as well - it’s really only in the last two redrawings of districts that Republicans took this particular power scam over.

Considering that redrawing of districts happens only once every 10 years, and we're about to have another such redrawing, "relatively recently" means about 29 years.  Which means Republicans have "taken over" this scam longer than the age of about 40 percent of the U.S. population.  I think it's time for them to own it. ;)

Crunch

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2020, 02:15:27 PM »
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The big difference is that Democrats thought they had done it by permanently winning over a majority of the country with fairness to all.  Republicans are trying to do it by disenfranchising the majority of the country.

 :o LMAO

Quit reading after that

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2020, 02:51:27 PM »
And this is why you don't understand Democrats, and your characterizations of them are typically utter nonsense.

You're closed-minded and lack curiosity.

If you'd consider it for one second, you'd realize that Democrats see themselves as heroes, just as Republicans, Communists, and everyone else in this world does.  So any explanation of their own motivation would be high-minded, such as being fair and just to all.  And there are many sources you could look at to justify that belief.

Now, you may disagree with that belief, just as you may disagree with the way I characterized how Republicans are trying to make their majority permanent.  (They would say they are preventing voter fraud and such.)  But you should not dismiss it out-of-hand.  Even worse, you should not dismiss me out-of-hand and everything I say just because I tell you what Democrats are really thinking.

You would learn a lot more if you considered the others' point of view, why they believe what they believe, and the justifications they use for believing that.  After all, that is the purpose of this board, isn't it?  If we were here just to throw brick-bats at each other and ignore/dismiss what each other say, it would get pretty boring pretty fast, wouldn't it?  We'd become another Reddit or any of the many, many other boards out there that are full of nonsense, just saying "hurrah for our side!"

So while you may vigorously disagree with what I say, I'd suggest you still read it.  If only for your own edification.

wmLambert

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2020, 07:58:53 PM »
...Democrats see themselves as heroes, just as Republicans, Communists, and everyone else in this world does.  So any explanation of their own motivation would be high-minded, such as being fair and just to all.  And there are many sources you could look at to justify that belief.

They do believe that, but they are disinformed and believe the disinformation religiously. When a person believes in his/her own infallibility, they form a foundational belief system impervious to facts or simple logic that disproves what they think is true. Unlike the GOP, the norm of the Democrat party as admitted by Carville and Begala is to lie when necessary. James Carville and Paul Begala spell out chapter and verse to the "Culture of Corruption" in their book, Take It Back: Our Party, Our Country, Our Future. The big secret is that up and down the party, the Ends justify the Means. Compare that to the Muslim concepts of taqiyya, tawriya, kitman and muruna. Again, the ends justify the means.

The complicit MSM is no longer alive. Journalism died in 2007. Trump is evil - not because of his behavior - but because his detractors say it is so. That those who know him say he ia a good man means nothing to them. You can call TDS a conspiracy theory - but the media is biased and reinforces all negatives. When true believers hear what they want to hear, their belief just gets stronger.

You cannot listen to any Democrat candidate talk about issues because the bullhorn is set to the "Trump is the worst" setting.

Kasandra

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2020, 06:00:36 AM »
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When a person believes in his/her own infallibility, they form a foundational belief system impervious to facts or simple logic that disproves what they think is true.

That is a wonderful description of how you think of yourself.  You'll need a ladder to get down off that pedestal.  I'd really enjoy watching a discussion between you and Crunch to see who is the more virtuous liberal hating, Trump loving yet still completely open-minded and logical deeply committed Republican.  I suspect you could both easily outdo the other.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2020, 08:51:46 AM »
And this is why you don't understand Democrats, and your characterizations of them are typically utter nonsense.

You're closed-minded and lack curiosity.

If you'd consider it for one second, you'd realize that Democrats see themselves as heroes, just as Republicans, Communists, and everyone else in this world does.  So any explanation of their own motivation would be high-minded, such as being fair and just to all.  And there are many sources you could look at to justify that belief.

Now, you may disagree with that belief, just as you may disagree with the way I characterized how Republicans are trying to make their majority permanent.  (They would say they are preventing voter fraud and such.)  But you should not dismiss it out-of-hand.  Even worse, you should not dismiss me out-of-hand and everything I say just because I tell you what Democrats are really thinking.


I already know what Democrats are thinking- it’s on every day on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, NYT, social media, and virtually every entertainment production coming out of Hollywood. I don’t need you to tell me what Democrats are thinking as I have a thousand other ways to hear it constantly delivered through all communication channels. I can get the approved talking points anytime I want.

I do dismiss it out of hand and I should. Your constant mischaracterizations and intense embrace of logical fallacies, tell me it’s reasonable to do so. I would similarly dismiss a Jehova Witness explaining the age of the earth at 5000 years.  It’s simply not serious, it’s mostly purely emotional appeal that is pointless to engage.

Stop being emotional, stop with the logical fallacy in very nearly every post, then I’ll take this seriously.

Wayward Son

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2020, 06:48:19 PM »
*Sigh*

I don't doubt you know what the Democrats are saying, although I suspect that it is filtered through Fox, Brietbart, etc., which edit the messages to only the stuff they want you to hear.  But I still don't believe you know what they are thinking.

I believe your interpretation of their thoughts and motivations are highly colored by your personal biases.  That you ascribe motivations to them that they typically do not have.

And as far as logical fallacies--I find that you engage in them as much, if not more, than most members of this board.  Ad hominems, false dilemmas, straw man arguments, and slippery slope arguments come immediately to mind.  I used to point some of these out, until I realized that you did not appear to care.

I would also not say that "very nearly every post" of mine has logical fallacies and appeals to emotion.  I recall several times when you accused me of logical fallacies and I disputed them (quite well, if I say to myself :) ).  While I do try to appeal to people's sense of fairness and justice, I believe those are the logical outcomes of my reasoned statements.  I wouldn't call them overly emotional, except for the emotion of "righteous wrath."

So once again I would ask you to open your mind and consider that you don't know as much as you believe.  The motivations you ascribe to Liberals and Democrats are far, far from their true motivations.  See if you can see it from their point of view.  And I would ask that you look twice at my posts and see if there aren't fairly logical arguments to them.  I bet you would find much to think about if you did so.

And even if you don't find the logic compelling, please do not resort to dismissal and name-calling (e.g. TDS).  It's not going to help me be less illogical and emotional.  It will only piss me off and make me dismiss you.

Crunch

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2020, 06:54:19 PM »
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I recall several times when you accused me of logical fallacies and I disputed them (quite well, if I say to myself :) ).

You replied, “no I didn’t”.  :o

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And even if you don't find the logic compelling, please do not resort to dismissal and name-calling (e.g. TDS).  It's not going to help me be less illogical and emotional.  It will only piss me off and make me dismiss you.

I don’t recall much in the way of name calling. I suspect more often than not you erroneously infer that on the way to a strawman. Frankly, I doubt anything help you be less illogical and emotional.

Kasandra

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2020, 08:13:40 PM »
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I don’t recall much in the way of name calling. I suspect more often than not you erroneously infer that on the way to a strawman. Frankly, I doubt anything help you be less illogical and emotional.

That's almost funny coming from someone obsessed with HDS.

wmLambert

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Re: Trump's fake census
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2020, 10:49:43 PM »
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When a person believes in his/her own infallibility, they form a foundational belief system impervious to facts or simple logic that disproves what they think is true.

That is a wonderful description of how you think of yourself.  You'll need a ladder to get down off that pedestal.  I'd really enjoy watching a discussion between you and Crunch to see who is the more virtuous liberal hating, Trump loving yet still completely open-minded and logical deeply committed Republican.  I suspect you could both easily outdo the other.

How does it feel to be able to slander anyone with which you disagree, with such total superiority in tone and intent? If you had the knowledge of what I was talking about, you would know that for disinformation to become foundational belief the person mist have an altered state, usually caused by trauma, sometimes by preachments of "respected" experts who instill the fear of a bogey man, followed up by schedules of reinforcement, like the Complicit media echoing the same disinformation without vetting. Since I work to find different info and study the facts, without blinders, you might want to stay away from mirrors for awhile.