Author Topic: Protestors vs. Rioters  (Read 10073 times)

rightleft22

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2020, 01:40:49 PM »
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My default mindset would be "they want to hurt you" whether or not it's actually the case. It's the safe assumption.

I guess if I were one to riot I might say that's a safe assumption.

Still I find that statement troubling. If our underlying relationship to police or anyone for that matter is to assume the worst won't we create what we fear? Or at least be part of the problem?

DonaldD

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2020, 01:43:11 PM »
I couldn't tell you if it's the same in every Canadian city. Montreal in particular has a notorious history of rioting every year around hockey
Um, no.

Fenring

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2020, 01:45:58 PM »
If our underlying relationship to police or anyone for that matter is to assume the worst won't we create what we fear? Or at least be part of the problem?

Well, yeah. That's why efforts need to be made to connect with the neighborhoods and build relationships. Anyone whose relationship with the police consists of "they're hiding out waiting to catch you and ticket you" and nothing else is going to come away with the distinct impression that they're shakedown artists working as unofficial tax collectors. And in terms of neighborhood patrol, the lack of a friendly and regular presence other than when there's trouble, in which case the kick-ass squad comes in, likewise. It's up to them to build a better relationship. We can't do it on our side, they're the armed ones who we can't resist.

Fenring

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2020, 01:46:45 PM »
I couldn't tell you if it's the same in every Canadian city. Montreal in particular has a notorious history of rioting every year around hockey
Um, no.

No the police mentality isn't the same in every city, or Montreal doesn't have a history of hockey riots? Granted, I haven't heard of it happening lately.

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2020, 01:49:26 PM »
...In the US it's 'better safe then sorry and deal with the paperwork after training. You threaten or me and I respond with overwhelming 'force'.

...Or don't respond at all. With the advent of body cams and iPhone cams, it is easier to not do police work at all. Training does tell them to shoot center body mass when threatened, but it's so much easier not to allow oneself to get in that situation.

DonaldD

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2020, 01:52:43 PM »
No the police mentality isn't the same in every city, or Montreal doesn't have a history of hockey riots? Granted, I haven't heard of it happening lately.
I was responding to "rioting every year around hockey".

That happened five times in the modern era, the first in 1955, the last, and quite minor, coming 10 years ago.

rightleft22

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2020, 01:54:08 PM »
...In the US it's 'better safe then sorry and deal with the paperwork after training. You threaten or me and I respond with overwhelming 'force'.

...Or don't respond at all. With the advent of body cams and iPhone cams, it is easier to not do police work at all. Training does tell them to shoot center body mass when threatened, but it's so much easier not to allow oneself to get in that situation.

That observations is that most people that take on a job want to do a good one. True there are those that will avoid work but they should be fired.

Fenring

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2020, 01:54:11 PM »
No the police mentality isn't the same in every city, or Montreal doesn't have a history of hockey riots? Granted, I haven't heard of it happening lately.
I was responding to "rioting every year around hockey".

That happened five times in the modern era, the first in 1955, the last, and quite minor, coming 10 years ago.

True, it was hyperbole. But I imagine is bespeaks a 'wild side' to Montreal that may differentiate it from, say, Toronto. That *might* have an effect on how the police are trained.

rightleft22

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2020, 02:00:19 PM »
If our underlying relationship to police or anyone for that matter is to assume the worst won't we create what we fear? Or at least be part of the problem?

Well, yeah. That's why efforts need to be made to connect with the neighborhoods and build relationships. Anyone whose relationship with the police consists of "they're hiding out waiting to catch you and ticket you" and nothing else is going to come away with the distinct impression that they're shakedown artists working as unofficial tax collectors. And in terms of neighborhood patrol, the lack of a friendly and regular presence other than when there's trouble, in which case the kick-ass squad comes in, likewise. It's up to them to build a better relationship. We can't do it on our side, they're the armed ones who we can't resist.

I suspect it will take both sides to build a better relationship. If your always going to start from a place of distrust I don't see a way forward.

And if we always base our judgment on the worst case experience then no relationship works. I'm reminded of the saying that it takes 100 'at a boys' to undo the damage of a negative 'you suck' but the problem isn't the person giving the 'at a boys' or the 'you suck'  that problem belongs to the one who requires 100 at at a boys to get over something.  Or at least they have some responsibility for the problem

Fenring

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2020, 02:06:16 PM »
I suspect it will take both sides to build a better relationship. If your always going to start from a place of distrust I don't see a way forward.

It is more or less natural for people to start from a place of relative distrust. This comes as a surprise to you? And yes there is a way forward, the weaker side being shown that the stronger side won't crush them. Trust develops. You can't tell a chicken to make the first move trusting a fox, it makes no sense.

By the way people are pretty quick to trust, so much so that it takes quite a lot to get them out of their complacency. So if there's significant mistrust it must have taken significant work to get it there. But it wouldn't take nearly as much work to repair it.

rightleft22

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2020, 03:15:53 PM »
I suspect it will take both sides to build a better relationship. If your always going to start from a place of distrust I don't see a way forward.

It is more or less natural for people to start from a place of relative distrust. This comes as a surprise to you? And yes there is a way forward, the weaker side being shown that the stronger side won't crush them. Trust develops. You can't tell a chicken to make the first move trusting a fox, it makes no sense.

By the way people are pretty quick to trust, so much so that it takes quite a lot to get them out of their complacency. So if there's significant mistrust it must have taken significant work to get it there. But it wouldn't take nearly as much work to repair it.

relative distrust I think assumes that the door can still be opened where as a polarized position of distrust locks the door.

Glatdwell and others makes the case that in reality the majority of people 'default is to trust' - The majority of day to day interactions require trust or we would go nuts. As in all thing though balance and decrement is required. To much or two little tends to hurt us

Gladwell  "Human beings are by nature trusting — of people, technology, everything. Often, we’re too trusting, with tragic results. But if we didn’t suppress thoughts of worst-case scenarios, we’d never leave the house. We definitely wouldn’t go on dating apps or invest in stocks or let our kids take gymnastics." “It would be impossible! - Everyone would withdraw their money from banks,” - “In fact, the whole internet exists because people default to truth. Nothing is secure!" - 

Gladwell suggestion is that we should approach situations “with caution and humility” or in the language of Ornery where the welcome is  "you are wrong". suggesting a attitude of openness to being wrong which is important to the ability to learn.

TheDeamon

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2020, 04:38:18 PM »
And the you have this kind of stupidity:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-rioters-set-fire-to-home-with-child-inside-then-block-firefighters-access-emotional-police-chief-details-incident

Quote
On Saturday, Richmond Police Chief Will Smith was overcome with emotion detailing one of the worst acts of violence carried out in the city during the previous night’s rioting, ostensibly over the death of George Floyd.

According to Smith, rioters set fire to an occupied multi-family residence with a child inside, then repeatedly blocked firefighters’ access to the scene.

Thankfully:

Quote
“Protesters intercepted that fire apparatus several blocks away with vehicles and blocked that fire department’s access to the structure fire,” Smith said. “Inside that home was a child.”

“Officers were able to –,” Smith attempted to continue, though he was overcome with emotion, “help those people out of the house.”

“We were able to get the fire department there safely,” the emotional police chief added.

Fenring

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2020, 05:36:00 PM »
Strange that police are frequently too quick to fire pepper spray at protesters, but in case like this there is no mention of violence even though keeping people in a burning building hostage is literally a terrorist act that could legally me met with an immediate SWAT sweep. I am generally happy at any instance of de-escalation, but I have to admit that if any situation merited swift action without compromise it would be one like this.

DonaldD

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2020, 06:19:43 PM »
The challenge is that the protesters are people, too.

If you bring in a SWAT team to bludgeon their way through a violent mob, there is also a risk of death.

As far as "keeping people in a burning building hostage", is there any evidence that the members of the mob knew about the child in the building?  I find it likely that they were completely oblivious, no matter how obvious the risk would seem to us on the outside of the mob.  Of course setting fire to buildings risks killing people. But people in mobs do not generally think that way (or at all, for that matter.)

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2020, 09:20:56 PM »
Perhaps the big lesson from all of this is the fact that these are Democrat riots in Democrat cities, managed by Democrat Mayors and Governors. Has anyone noted a single Democrat Presidential candidate say anything against the looters and rioters? Someone in the higher echelons of power within the DNC is happy with this. Just one more thing to bring down the Trump economy as the Coronavirus seems to be petering out, and one more thing to use against the President.

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2020, 09:24:09 PM »
Perhaps the big lesson from all of this is the fact that these are Democrat riots in Democrat cities, managed by Democrat Mayors and Governors. Has anyone noted a single Democrat Presidential candidate say anything against the looters and rioters? Someone in the higher echelons of power within the DNC is happy with this. Just one more thing to bring down the Trump economy as the Coronavirus seems to be petering out, and one more thing to use against the President.

Sick.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2020, 10:22:01 PM »
It seems like both sides think letting this continue is to their own advantage politically.

And not only that but the converse is true too; putting a stop to it with all the drama that will entail will not look good on camera.

The Democrats think this makes Trump look bad and Trump along with the Republicans see this primarily in Democrat controlled states and cities and figure it makes them look weak and mollycoddling to criminals. If the Democrat governors and mayors crack down and civilians get killed or even handled roughly it looks like they are no better than the police who got this whole ball rolling in the first place. Now Trump could maybe crack down and that might make him look good to his base but as long as this is mostly going on in Democrat controlled areas and the people in charge there rebuff his offers of assistance then he may figure his best play is to wait for the time being and maybe make his move when Republican controlled areas have their leadership asking him for help if things get out of control and they figure they need it at which time he has the military ride in like the cavalry to save the day, but only after people are begging for it.

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2020, 11:00:10 PM »
It seems like both sides think letting this continue is to their own advantage politically.

And not only that but the converse is true too; putting a stop to it with all the drama that will entail will not look good on camera.

The Democrats think this makes Trump look bad and Trump along with the Republicans see this primarily in Democrat controlled states and cities and figure it makes them look weak and mollycoddling to criminals. If the Democrat governors and mayors crack down and civilians get killed or even handled roughly it looks like they are no better than the police who got this whole ball rolling in the first place. Now Trump could maybe crack down and that might make him look good to his base but as long as this is mostly going on in Democrat controlled areas and the people in charge there rebuff his offers of assistance then he may figure his best play is to wait for the time being and maybe make his move when Republican controlled areas have their leadership asking him for help if things get out of control and they figure they need it at which time he has the military ride in like the cavalry to save the day, but only after people are begging for it.

Way off base. The Democrats are pushing the looting and violence - and the media is happy to go along with them.

Ask yourselves why not a single MSM, except Fox News, has even mentioned Retired St. Louis police captain, David Dorne, killed as a pawnshop was looted. Here was a hero, but he doesn't fit the Democrat play book. There is a MSM attempt to blame the rioting and looting on White Supremacists, yet no such people have been noticed, anywhere. Certainly nothing to inspire the blame game. There are many false flag activists out there as well. One activist dressed himself up as a National Guard soldier, but he screwed up the costume and got arrested. He was heavily armed. Think about what his assignment may have been.

The GOP is not following a strategy of pretending the Democrats are "weak and mollycoddling to criminals." No pretense needed. If a line of citizens stand in front of their storefronts to ward off looters, they are probably GOP. The ones chanting "USA! USA! USA!" certainly are.

What is sad to me, is that many, many cannon-fodder Left-wing idiot-morons are getting arrested at the behest of the Soros-paid activists who set them up and then sneak away without getting caught. I'm not too empathetic, because the cannon-fodder are just too stupid for pity.

DonaldD

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2020, 07:12:57 AM »
David Dorn:
CNN
CBS News
NBC Chicago

On a completely separate topic:
What is sad to me, is that many, many cannon-fodder Left-wing idiot-morons
If there's one person who really shouldn't insult people's intelligence, wmLambert...

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2020, 07:17:47 AM »
Quote
What is sad to me, is that many, many cannon-fodder Left-wing idiot-morons are getting arrested at the behest of the Soros-paid activists who set them up and then sneak away without getting caught. I'm not too empathetic, because the cannon-fodder are just too stupid for pity.

Obsession.  Aren't you upset about the Adelsons, Charles Koch, Paul Singer, Mercers, Camerons, Yasses, Marcuses and others who have given $millions to fund Republican and conservative causes?  They and others like them have outspent the amount Soros has given to any groups by an order of magnitude.

Crunch

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2020, 08:23:20 AM »
David Dorn:
CNN
CBS News
NBC Chicago


So have we gotten justice for Floyd now? Or de we need to kill a few more cops? Could we just steal a few more Air Jordan’s and Luis Vuitton purses and be done? Nothing says justice like some sweet new scoots and a stolen bag! Well, except maybe a decent body count among police. Right?

DonaldD

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2020, 08:34:34 AM »
Why are you so obsessed with killing?  First, you want to kill people with COVID-19, now you want to kill people during  demonstrations.  You're all about the killing...

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2020, 08:53:43 AM »
David Dorn:
CNN
CBS News
NBC Chicago


So have we gotten justice for Floyd now? Or de we need to kill a few more cops? Could we just steal a few more Air Jordan’s and Luis Vuitton purses and be done? Nothing says justice like some sweet new scoots and a stolen bag! Well, except maybe a decent body count among police. Right?

Those aren't protesters, as you well know.  Opportunistic criminals and hate groups are taking advantage of the protests to carry out their own objectives.

DJQuag

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2020, 10:36:56 AM »
I'll interrupt everyone talking past each other to confess to a rather disheartening bit of bias on my part that just got shoved in my face.

The murder of Dorn was brought up above, and I admit my instinctive reaction to hearing about this old retired police captain from Missouri was to assume that he'd probably roughed up a few minorities in his time as well.

And then the links were provided (I would have Googled it but I was playing catch up) and it turns out he was beloved by the community and his colleagues, he tried his best to help youths before they irrevocably went down a bad path, and, yes, he was a black man.

So I'm playing the self reflection game on what my first reactions to things are based on at the moment.

TheDrake

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #74 on: June 03, 2020, 11:13:34 AM »
Perhaps the big lesson from all of this is the fact that these are Democrat riots in Democrat cities, managed by Democrat Mayors and Governors. Has anyone noted a single Democrat Presidential candidate say anything against the looters and rioters? Someone in the higher echelons of power within the DNC is happy with this. Just one more thing to bring down the Trump economy as the Coronavirus seems to be petering out, and one more thing to use against the President.

For starters, almost all of the largest cities have Democrat mayors. San Diego is the largest city with a Republican mayor, and they do indeed have violence, including banks being burned to the ground. The next largest is Jacksonville - rioting. Save yourself the time, and just respond with [insert excuse here].

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #75 on: June 03, 2020, 12:52:49 PM »
I'll interrupt everyone talking past each other to confess to a rather disheartening bit of bias on my part that just got shoved in my face.

The murder of Dorn was brought up above, and I admit my instinctive reaction to hearing about this old retired police captain from Missouri was to assume that he'd probably roughed up a few minorities in his time as well.

And then the links were provided (I would have Googled it but I was playing catch up) and it turns out he was beloved by the community and his colleagues, he tried his best to help youths before they irrevocably went down a bad path, and, yes, he was a black man.

So I'm playing the self reflection game on what my first reactions to things are based on at the moment.

Good call. When I posted the news that Dorne had not been mentioned by anyone except Fox - it was accurate. When Fox did a Lexis-Nexis search and found no other network had covered it, it was accurate. It is evident that the search engines lit up and the word got back to those complicit Democrat apologists, because they then started covering it as if their earlier silence never happened.

The new observation is that the Soros-funded activists are well-organized: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/06/must-see-exclusive-mysterious-stacks-bricks-delivered-numerous-us-cities-evidence-riots-organized/

Is there any doubt that someone is orchestrating it all?

NobleHunter

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2020, 01:50:05 PM »
I would be very surprised if those bricks were the work of anyone on the left. It seems more likely to me that--if there isn't some innocent explanation--they're the work of someone attempting to discredit the protests by spurring them to violence. There's a reason cops are doing everything they can to provoke violence.

TheDeamon

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2020, 01:58:03 PM »
I would be very surprised if those bricks were the work of anyone on the left. It seems more likely to me that--if there isn't some innocent explanation--they're the work of someone attempting to discredit the protests by spurring them to violence. There's a reason cops are doing everything they can to provoke violence.

It's a little bit of all of the above, I think.

BBC wants to claim it's a myth. Other police agencies and local stations in those areas indicate it's a very real thing. Certain other areas have found those "piles of bricks" to have actually been otherwise benign(they were there for legitimate reasons), but removed them as a precautionary measure after it(the potential hazard) was pointed out anyway.

The issue here is that AntiFa has previously been reported as having discussed "staging" things like this in advance of protests in the past, so it is in their playbook. Whether or not they used that playbook, that's another matter.

Which is where you can get back into the psy-ops game of false-flag, double/triple/whatever false flag activities and so forth. Because of course people who oppose AntiFa are aware that AntiFa's playbook includes doing such things, so it'd be a good way to try to set them up...

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2020, 02:06:09 PM »
I would be very surprised if those bricks were the work of anyone on the left. It seems more likely to me that--if there isn't some innocent explanation--they're the work of someone attempting to discredit the protests by spurring them to violence. There's a reason cops are doing everything they can to provoke violence.

Except that projection and false-flag operations are tactics of the Democrat party - and not something the GOP is noted for.

Look - we know Soros has funded activists. There is no argument. He has even explained why he wants to bring down the USA. We know the same activists show up at multiple places all over the nation - and young noble hearts who live in their parents' basement generally don't have the funds to fly all over the country to take part in every protest. It should be possible to trace where the bricks and pipes and other riot stuff has come from, and maybe find the cretins who put it there. The more sophisticated the operation, though, the harder it will become to prove anything.

Fenring

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2020, 02:07:17 PM »
Except that projection and false-flag operations are tactics of the Democrat party - and not something the GOP is noted for.

Well there's 9/11...oops! Sorry, didn't mean to say that out loud.

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #80 on: June 03, 2020, 02:07:43 PM »
Quote
The issue here is that AntiFa has previously been reported as having discussed "staging" things like this in advance of protests in the past, so it is in their playbook. Whether or not they used that playbook, that's another matter.

Since we know that right wing militant groups are trying to discredit and disrupt legitimate protests we can't assume that these "staging" activities are due to only left-wing groups.  So far I haven't seen evidence that antifa is behind any violence or staged disruptions.

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #81 on: June 03, 2020, 02:11:58 PM »
Quote
Except that projection and false-flag operations are tactics of the Democrat party - and not something the GOP is noted for.

Look - we know Soros has funded activists.

I think Crunch's goto statement applies more to you than anyone here besides him: smh.

BTW, you don't get extra credit for smearing George Soros on every thread.  Look to your own house before you attack others without evidence.

DJQuag

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #82 on: June 03, 2020, 02:13:15 PM »
I'll interrupt everyone talking past each other to confess to a rather disheartening bit of bias on my part that just got shoved in my face.

The murder of Dorn was brought up above, and I admit my instinctive reaction to hearing about this old retired police captain from Missouri was to assume that he'd probably roughed up a few minorities in his time as well.

And then the links were provided (I would have Googled it but I was playing catch up) and it turns out he was beloved by the community and his colleagues, he tried his best to help youths before they irrevocably went down a bad path, and, yes, he was a black man.

So I'm playing the self reflection game on what my first reactions to things are based on at the moment.

Good call. When I posted the news that Dorne had not been mentioned by anyone except Fox - it was accurate. When Fox did a Lexis-Nexis search and found no other network had covered it, it was accurate. It is evident that the search engines lit up and the word got back to those complicit Democrat apologists, because they then started covering it as if their earlier silence never happened.

The new observation is that the Soros-funded activists are well-organized: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/06/must-see-exclusive-mysterious-stacks-bricks-delivered-numerous-us-cities-evidence-riots-organized/

Is there any doubt that someone is orchestrating it all?

Thank you so much for that heartfelt bit of encouragement.

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #83 on: June 03, 2020, 02:16:21 PM »
Quote
The new observation is that the Soros-funded activists are well-organized

You could save a lot of space on these threads if every time you want to point out how evil Democrats are and how blessed and saintly Republicans are you just posted:

SOROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We'd all get your point.

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #84 on: June 03, 2020, 02:47:08 PM »
Quote
The new observation is that the Soros-funded activists are well-organized

You could save a lot of space on these threads if every time you want to point out how evil Democrats are and how blessed and saintly Republicans are you just posted:

SOROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We'd all get your point.

Your call. You want to go there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQl_bV1uXLE

George Soros has transferred $18 Billion to his Open Society Foundation to support his political goals. Black Lives matter, AntiFa, Occupy Wallstreet, ...who doesn't he support?

Of course not all of that $18 billion goes to paying activists - much goes to the media to make sure all opposition is tainted as conspiracy theory. Look at the internet, the first two dozen search engines all return the verdict of how saintly Soros is, and how everyone against him is the problem. You stand where you stand, but accept the position you put yourself in. And yes, Soros is an owner of that Wuhan lab that started the Coronavirus. But, so is Bill Gates.

TheDeamon

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #85 on: June 03, 2020, 02:57:30 PM »
Look - we know Soros has funded activists. There is no argument. He has even explained why he wants to bring down the USA. We know the same activists show up at multiple places all over the nation - and young noble hearts who live in their parents' basement generally don't have the funds to fly all over the country to take part in every protest. It should be possible to trace where the bricks and pipes and other riot stuff has come from, and maybe find the cretins who put it there. The more sophisticated the operation, though, the harder it will become to prove anything.

If the group is well funded then chances any bricks and much of the other paraphernalia they purchased was obtained months or even years ago and has been sitting in a storage unit somewhere just waiting for the occasion for them to both be ready for use, and hard to trace as there will be no "recent (unusual) purchasing activity" to find.

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2020, 02:59:11 PM »
Here is another report of luxury cars dropping off the looters with power tools and suitcases, waiting for the looters to unload loot, then go back to get more stuff. These charge organized crime as the culprits.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384139/NYC-looters-dropped-cars-tools-picked-driven-location.html

DJQuag

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #87 on: June 03, 2020, 03:02:14 PM »
Quote
The new observation is that the Soros-funded activists are well-organized

You could save a lot of space on these threads if every time you want to point out how evil Democrats are and how blessed and saintly Republicans are you just posted:

SOROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We'd all get your point.

Your call. You want to go there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQl_bV1uXLE

George Soros has transferred $18 Billion to his Open Society Foundation to support his political goals. Black Lives matter, AntiFa, Occupy Wallstreet, ...who doesn't he support?

Of course not all of that $18 billion goes to paying activists - much goes to the media to make sure all opposition is tainted as conspiracy theory. Look at the internet, the first two dozen search engines all return the verdict of how saintly Soros is, and how everyone against him is the problem. You stand where you stand, but accept the position you put yourself in. And yes, Soros is an owner of that Wuhan lab that started the Coronavirus. But, so is Bill Gates.

Cool, coo coo coo co cool.

So, Soros is the devil. Perhaps because he put a lot of money , and hey look, so did Gates and others. Assuming in this paradigm they're evil as well.

Look, I have tried to be pretty equal regarding political speak. I'm a little commie sometimes, other times I machine gun off the liberals.

I'm asking you right now, not as an Ornery guy who you would feel comfortable asking others who wanted you to die to go suck your dick, what's your issue with Soros? Why do you keep bringing him up? You always do it, why? We're honestly all curious, just please answer for once in your life.

Soros. What's your deal?

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #88 on: June 03, 2020, 03:02:20 PM »
Here is another report of luxury cars dropping off the looters with power tools and suitcases, waiting for the looters to unload loot, then go back to get more stuff. These charge organized crime as the culprits.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384139/NYC-looters-dropped-cars-tools-picked-driven-location.html
There are 169 organizations with investments in Wuhan lab.  Soros does indeed invest in many other things.  You don't think Adelson, Mercer, Koch and a host of other conservative billionaires invest heavily in conservative and rightwing causes?  This leaves out all of the philanthropic investments Soros, Gates and many on the right make.  Do you sleep only on your right side and not cut your food because it would mean using your left hand?

SOROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
Here is another report of luxury cars dropping off the looters with power tools and suitcases, waiting for the looters to unload loot, then go back to get more stuff. These charge organized crime as the culprits.

The Daily Mail?  That's an even less reputable site than your other sources.

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2020, 03:06:58 PM »
...If the group is well funded then chances any bricks and much of the other paraphernalia they purchased was obtained months or even years ago and has been sitting in a storage unit somewhere just waiting for the occasion for them to both be ready for use, and hard to trace as there will be no "recent (unusual) purchasing activity" to find.

Nah... I doubt the need to stash bricks and pipes beforehand in storage facilities. It is all ubiquitous, and readily available. Any construction site has plenty of stuff that can be used at a moment's notice. If the looters don't care about stealing TVs and shoes, why pay for bricks? The investigation will center on the vehicles and where they come from.

TheDeamon

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #90 on: June 03, 2020, 03:14:08 PM »
Since we know that right wing militant groups are trying to discredit and disrupt legitimate protests we can't assume that these "staging" activities are due to only left-wing groups.  So far I haven't seen evidence that antifa is behind any violence or staged disruptions.

And you probably won't see much in the way of evidence until/unless they start prosecuting members of the group. Just because you're not seeing any evidence of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And given that a lot of it is probably "cyber-intelligence" in nature, they'd be smart to only reveal the minimum necessary to convict.

None of the stupid leaking that happened back in the 1990's about how intelligence officials managed to track Bin Laden for example... Which in turn made him near impossible to track thereafter, and a great many others as well because they realized if we can do it to OBL, we could do it to them too.

TheDeamon

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #91 on: June 03, 2020, 03:19:23 PM »
...If the group is well funded then chances any bricks and much of the other paraphernalia they purchased was obtained months or even years ago and has been sitting in a storage unit somewhere just waiting for the occasion for them to both be ready for use, and hard to trace as there will be no "recent (unusual) purchasing activity" to find.

Nah... I doubt the need to stash bricks and pipes beforehand in storage facilities. It is all ubiquitous, and readily available. Any construction site has plenty of stuff that can be used at a moment's notice. If the looters don't care about stealing TVs and shoes, why pay for bricks? The investigation will center on the vehicles and where they come from.

Just because the stuff is "out there" doesn't mean it's "right there" when they need/want it. So if some construction outfit hasn't inadvertently left such things available for their people to "opportunistically use" during a protest, they'd need to create the opportunity themselves.

As one expression goes, "It's better to be lucky than good. But the good make their own luck." And pre-positioning stacks of bricks along a protest route would fall into the "make your own luck" if your goal is chaos. The better part for those groups is their people don't even need to be the ones who use the bricks, just so long as somebody does, it's mission accomplished for them.

It also gets rid of the narrative talking point or potential photo op of "protestors were seen bringing sticks/clubs/bricks along with them to the protest" or being caught pulling them out of a bag.

Don't need to bring it with you, if you know to expect to "find them" along the way.

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #92 on: June 03, 2020, 03:19:29 PM »
Here is another report of luxury cars dropping off the looters with power tools and suitcases, waiting for the looters to unload loot, then go back to get more stuff. These charge organized crime as the culprits.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8384139/NYC-looters-dropped-cars-tools-picked-driven-location.html
There are 169 organizations with investments in Wuhan lab.  Soros does indeed invest in many other things.  You don't think Adelson, Mercer, Koch and a host of other conservative billionaires invest heavily in conservative and rightwing causes?  This leaves out all of the philanthropic investments Soros, Gates and many on the right make.  Do you sleep only on your right side and not cut your food because it would mean using your left hand?

SOROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
Here is another report of luxury cars dropping off the looters with power tools and suitcases, waiting for the looters to unload loot, then go back to get more stuff. These charge organized crime as the culprits.

The Daily Mail?  That's an even less reputable site than your other sources.

Well, we know which side you are on. Are you a card-carrying member of AntiFa? Are you one of the activists that Soros has funded to infiltrate the internet? Just wondering. You pick your side, and that picking does define you.

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #93 on: June 03, 2020, 03:27:11 PM »
...Just because the stuff is "out there" doesn't mean it's "right there" when they need/want it. So if some construction outfit hasn't inadvertently left such things available for their people to "opportunistically use" during a protest, they'd need to create the opportunity themselves.

Laydown lots have that stuff at any building site, and it all comes from providers, so the stuff is always there. It doesn't sound like these people would be afraid to steal the stuff on an "as needs basis." Organized groups are aware of not leaving traces, so contemporaneous scrounging seems most likely.

However stacks of bricks are heavy, so unloading equipment is probably part of the vehicle. That;s where I'd look first.

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #94 on: June 03, 2020, 03:50:14 PM »
Quote
Well, we know which side you are on. Are you a card-carrying member of AntiFa? Are you one of the activists that Soros has funded to infiltrate the internet? Just wondering. You pick your side, and that picking does define you.

Are you getting swag for promoting SOROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?  Have you picked a side?  Sorry, dumb question.

wmLambert

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #95 on: June 03, 2020, 03:51:15 PM »
Quote
Well, we know which side you are on. Are you a card-carrying member of AntiFa? Are you one of the activists that Soros has funded to infiltrate the internet? Just wondering. You pick your side, and that picking does define you.

Are you getting swag for promoting SOROS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?  Have you picked a side?  Sorry, dumb question.

Still smarmy.

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #96 on: June 03, 2020, 03:58:27 PM »
Quote
Still smarmy.

Christ!  If you're going to reach for insults, get a *censored*ing dictionary!  Or use this page; I'll be happy to respond in Elizabethan :)

cherrypoptart

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #97 on: June 03, 2020, 05:07:33 PM »

DJQuag

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #98 on: June 03, 2020, 05:16:12 PM »
Want to reiterate that the Daily Mail is the yellowest of yellow journalism. Ya'll don't know what it's like until you move here. It's like the Hannity/Maddow newspaper on display right there when you're just trying to buy coffee and maybe some smokes on the way to work.

Kasandra

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Re: Protestors vs. Rioters
« Reply #99 on: June 03, 2020, 05:16:33 PM »