Author Topic: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch  (Read 19391 times)

wmLambert

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #400 on: September 13, 2020, 08:39:49 PM »
We were talking about non violent sports protests. I didn't think I had to spell out that I was referring to the famous raising of fists on the Olympic podium. But at least you've confirmed that you thought that the Civil rights movement was wrong. I'm sorry that you're pining for the 50s.

Now you are being a troll. You cannot deny that the American experience has been betterment of civil rights. Since the time of George Wallace, even the Democrats understood they had to act like non-bigots to keep any voters at all. They disavowed the KKK, even though they kept Klansmen in their ranks as respected mentors. They claimed all their racists and bigots moved to the GOP, even though no one changed parties at that time.

The people were welcoming civil rights, and the long-held civil rights bills the GOP had promoted since the Civil War were blocked by the Democrats for the last time during Eisenhower's administration. When LBJ came around with a quibble with his own party, he sided with the Everitt Dirksen GOP to pass the Civil Rights bills - more to stick a thumb in the eye of his party members than for civil rights. We have been righting the ship for years - and every so often the Democrats try to ratchet up some complaints to bolster their self-proclaimed civil rights activism. But like the Dems' Black Caucus that blocked making the Civil Rights bills permanent so they had an issue to run every election cycle, doing what was right was just a pretense for staying in power.

Why would any party follow divisive leaders like Farrakhan and Sharpton? BLM leaders Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi are avowed Marxists, but have blinders on when asked about Maduro in Venezuela. They coined the name BLM on the day George Zimmerman was acquitted of murdering Trayvon Martin. You remember, Martin who tried to beat Zimmerman to death? When I led a demonstration, it was about real injustice which had a ready solution, and the school board just needed a little hint for how to solve the inequity. Once done, there was no need to maintain political power. All the fists in the air are representative of the Walter Cronkite lie about the Tet Offensive that made activists realize they just needed to aim their battles at media coverage.

There used to be no Blacks allowed in sports at all, now there are. Yet the multi-millionaire minorities raise fists to say they are still victims. This is only about us vs, them - not about unity and togetherness. Idiot-morons raise fists and create divisiveness more than embrace unity. BLM is run by avowed Communists, and embrace rioting and looting. The Democrats see that as in their political favor, so embolden the bad actors.

TheDeamon

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #401 on: October 12, 2020, 01:43:46 PM »
So last night in Portland, protesters tore down statues of Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt in an "Indigenous Peoples' Day of Rage" protest.

DonaldD

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #402 on: October 25, 2020, 08:58:00 AM »
Filed under "Dog Bites Man": Centre For Strategic and International Studies: Far-Right Groups Are Behind Most U.S. Terrorist Attacks, 2020 Report Finds

I know this is inconvenient for the narrative being pushed in support of a particular political group, but to quote one of the great thinkers of our time: "It is what it is."

And here is the source study.

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Based on the data, this analysis has several findings, which are discussed at greater length later in this assessment. First, white supremacists and other like-minded extremists conducted 67 percent of terrorist plots and attacks in the United States in 2020.

...

Despite these findings, this violence needs to be understood in historical context. The number of fatalities from terrorist attacks in the U.S. homeland is still relatively small compared to some periods in U.S. history, making it important not to overstate the threat.7 Roughly half of the years since 1994 had a greater number of fatalities from terrorism than 2020—at least between January 1 and August 31, 2020.

TheDeamon

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #403 on: October 25, 2020, 01:14:54 PM »
I'm not even going to bother to read it at this point. Only thing I'm going to ask is:

How did they define "terrorist attack" in this case?

DonaldD

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #404 on: October 25, 2020, 01:49:09 PM »
It's in the summary of the study.  Click on the link if you are interested.

TheDeamon

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #405 on: October 25, 2020, 04:40:32 PM »
It's in the summary of the study.  Click on the link if you are interested.

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This report focuses on terrorism—not other issues, such
as hate crimes, protests, riots, or broader civil unrest.
Terrorism is the deliberate use—or threat—of violence by
non-state actors
in order to achieve political goals and create
a broad psychological impact.

And they're claiming White Supremacists were doing more of that this past year than the left? To the degree they're crediting the White Supremacists with 80% and the left with only 20%? On what planet are they living on?

BLM is the one rioting in the streets, not the Neo-Nazis. BLM is the one yelling at people about how they're going to burn their house down(and even doing so, or making the attempt, in some cases).

I'd agree the white-supremacists are probably the more persistent and lethal threat, but they're not the ones doing things this year by and large.

Oh right, because BLM is burning things down as part of a riot it doesn't count. Gotcha.

DonaldD

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #406 on: October 25, 2020, 06:03:56 PM »
That's the problem with getting your statistics by looking at exciting video on the "6 o'clock news", as opposed to actually looking at and counting up all incidents of violence, even if they weren't being amplified by one's favourite media (or president).  I'm sure that incidents of media reports of terrorist violence do NOT match the 67%/20% ratio.

As for this:

they're crediting the White Supremacists with 80% and the left with only 20%? On what planet are they living on?

You misread: the numbers in the study are actually 67 percent for far-right terrorists (not 80%) and 20 percent for far-left terrorists.

wmLambert

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #407 on: October 25, 2020, 11:28:00 PM »
I look at historical data with a jaundiced eye since so many "authorities" had to be slapped alongside their heads to admit Hitler was a Leftist - not a Conservative. They put the Nazis on the Right side of every equation - even though that was diametrically opposed to reality. It may be worse now, as AntiFa is supposed to be against Fascism, when they are activist themselves and more Fascist than anyone they protest against.

DonaldD

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #408 on: November 01, 2020, 06:29:40 PM »
Trump supporters shut down the Tappan Zee bridge and the New Jersey Parkway.

Democrats march in a get-out-vote demonstration/parade in Graham, North Carolina.

One group gets pepper sprayed.  The others do not.  Which is which?

DonaldD

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #409 on: November 11, 2020, 08:41:45 PM »
And in news surprising exactly nobody: Proud Boys fed up with pretending they're not racist.

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The far-right Proud Boys gang has long denied that it is a white nationalist organization and has instead claimed that it only exists to defend “Western Civilization.”

However, Newsweek reports that some members of the group are ready to openly embrace being a racist organization and are dropping any pretenses of wanting support of non-white people.

The civil war within the Proud Boys started when Kyle Chapman, the founder of the Proud Boys’ so-called “tactical defense arm,” sent out a message to supporters that he no longer wanted to pretend that he wasn’t a white nationalist.

“Due to the recent failure of Proud Boy Chairman Enrique Tarrio to conduct himself with honor and courage on the battlefield, it has been decided that I Kyle Chapman reassume my post as President of Proud Boys effective immediately,” Chapman wrote. “We will no longer cuck to the left by appointing token negroes as our leaders. We will no longer allow homosexuals or other ‘undesirables’ into our ranks. We will confront the Zionist criminals who wish to destroy our civilization.”

He also made clear that he believed talk of defending “Western Civilization” was really just a racist dog whistle all along.

“We recognize that the West was built by the White Race alone and we owe nothing to any other race,” he wrote.

Aris Katsaris

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #410 on: November 11, 2020, 09:10:08 PM »
Relevant earlier discussion: http://www.ornery.org/forum/index.php/topic,786.msg46861.html#msg46861
comment by cherry:
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"Enrique Tarrio insists that the Proud Boys aren’t White supremacists, and he would be in a position to know. For one, he’s the international chairman. For another, he’s Black."

Anyone not for open borders is a racist. In fact, they are a white supremacist. What if they are black, Latino, or both? Doesn't matter. Still a white supremacist. Like the Jews who worked with Hitler who were still Nazis I guess. Maybe Enrique Tarrio was made an honorary white or something.

That seems to be the tact the left is taking.

I agreed with him that perhaps the Proud Boys are not white supremacist, *just* neo-fascist -- but thankfully just a few comments later, noel (unintentionally) helped convince me of the opposite:
http://www.ornery.org/forum/index.php/topic,786.msg46865.html#msg46865
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I think you just helped convince me of the reverse - no, you should listen more to Europeans fearing fascism in America, because of our experience with fascism, and I should similarly trust more the opinion of Americans, about the Proud Boys being white supremacists, since after all it's Americans who have the experience of white supremacist groups.

--

So, thank you noel. It turned out indeed that a token black chairman doesn't preclude an organization from being white supremacist, and I should have listened from the start to the progressives in the United States that identified them as such.

TheDeamon

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #411 on: November 11, 2020, 09:33:44 PM »
So, thank you noel. It turned out indeed that a token black chairman doesn't preclude an organization from being white supremacist, and I should have listened from the start to the progressives in the United States that identified them as such.

It's a bit more than "token black guy" by Enrique Tarrio claims, over 40% of their membership is comprised of racial minorities.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Newsweek just got trolled, given that the ProudBoys started as a joke in the first place.

TheDrake

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Re: I love my country, but we're going through a rough patch
« Reply #412 on: November 11, 2020, 09:45:00 PM »
Here's a more objective tally, but yes not insignificant. Wonder if that's gonna change.

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Mr. Reilly, author of “Hate Crime Hoax,” said his research shows law enforcement officials estimate that 10% to 20% of Proud Boys members are racial minorities.

Same Washington Times article as cherry quoted.