Author Topic: Election Results  (Read 351987 times)

Fenring

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2200 on: December 20, 2022, 07:40:09 PM »
The question is always what methods are actually available to significantly change a system that is being slowly distorted over time. And when the manner of its distortion creates defenses for the system and incentives for it to continue in that direction (you need to think of it as a being rather than a system to see it clearly) then you need to actively oppose that force somehow. The question is always how, or whether there is a method within the system to do so. You can say the U.S. isn't China, but there are similarities. In certain circumstances the system may be quite resistant to change without a serious incident happening shifting the winds.

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2201 on: December 21, 2022, 07:42:35 AM »
The question is always what methods are actually available to significantly change a system that is being slowly distorted over time. And when the manner of its distortion creates defenses for the system and incentives for it to continue in that direction (you need to think of it as a being rather than a system to see it clearly) then you need to actively oppose that force somehow. The question is always how, or whether there is a method within the system to do so. You can say the U.S. isn't China, but there are similarities. In certain circumstances the system may be quite resistant to change without a serious incident happening shifting the winds.

In our system the method for the majority of beings that make up the being-system is in the vote and your argument does not justify voting for individual that at some level of consciousness you know are not qualified to carry out the change you hope to see. Instead many of these beings who are making that choice and using the power they do have refuse to hold themselves and those they support accountable. At the same time they demand that those they support take on the responsibility of holding themselves accountable, which being the type of people they are, wont.  Its a catch 22 that is a cause to the being/system being slowly distorted.

I'm not saying that a individual has much power within such a system to change anything 'significantly' only that personal integrity requires that they ought to be consistent.  If truth and integrity are personal values and then you support a person without either then its time to look in the mirror and ask yourself what really matters to you.  Its ok if truth and integrity arn't values you value much the problem is is your lying to yourself about it and then pretend you can't understand why the being/system is becoming distorted. When you your self have become distorted.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2202 on: December 21, 2022, 07:55:25 AM »
Well it looks like there will be an update to the Electoral Count Act where instead of needing 1 House member and 1 Senator to needing 1/5 of each chamber objecting. So 20 in the Senate and 87 in the House.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/electoral-count-act-set-deliver-110000301.html

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2203 on: December 21, 2022, 08:05:51 PM »
Well even though Hannity promoted the Big Lie on his show, he, when under oath, says he did not believe it for one second.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sean-hannity-testified-didnt-believe-001935335.html

I guess Hannity is a Never Trumper now.

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2204 on: December 22, 2022, 09:51:29 AM »
That it is unlikely that Hannity isn't held accountable by those the tune in to hear his 'truth' is so disheartening
I think this says more about those that support Hannity then it does about Hannity though one wonders how Hannity sleeps at night. I suspect quite well as long as he doesn't look in the mirror and keeps his focus on the money. 

If the word evil can be assoicated with a person, my feeling is that it applies here as he is intentionally calling 'fire in a movie theater' knowing its not true and profiting from it.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2205 on: December 22, 2022, 09:56:55 AM »
The issue for Fox is that it is almost all of their on air personalities. Carlson, Hannity et al.

Tom

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2206 on: December 22, 2022, 10:20:31 AM »
Quote
I suspect quite well as long as he doesn't look in the mirror
One of the pernicious things about this sort of brazen hypocrisy is that its proponents actually need to half-convince themselves of their "truths," or at the very least that there is a higher purpose being served by the lie. Unfortunately this has the side effect of creating zealots.

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2207 on: December 22, 2022, 12:19:29 PM »
Quote
its proponents actually need to half-convince themselves of their "truths,"
That s the part I can't fully understand. That all is required is to half-convince oneself - half knowing your lying and causing harm.  I can't image how holding onto that kind of cognitive dissonance doesn't show up in ways that doesn't result in a great deal of self harm.

Tom

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2208 on: December 22, 2022, 12:35:53 PM »
I DO think it causes them harm. At the end of the day, these are not good, wholesome, functional people.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2209 on: December 22, 2022, 01:10:13 PM »
I DO think it causes them harm. At the end of the day, these are not good, wholesome, functional people.

I think it creates a lot of self delusion. I think they've convinced themselves that their side is "good" and democrats are "evil." Therefore anything that helps us and hurts democrats is "good." Not sure if they fully rationalize themselves that simply but I'm guessing they are living in some sort of bubble reality where they are the hero of their own narrative fighting the "evil." Once you fully convince yourself the other side drinks the blood of babies, wants to destroy America, pick your favorite delusion of the right, then what are a few lies "in the cause of justice."

Or maybe they are just greedy sociopaths who don't care about anything but getting rich and powerful and have no conscience about how they do it.

Fenring

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2210 on: December 22, 2022, 01:34:05 PM »
It's probably more complex than that. C.S. Lewis has an entire novel (That Hideous Strength) about the reasons and ways in which someone might increasingly devote resources to being in the correct in-crowd, getting praise from the right people, advancement, and other benefits. There is a large social pressure leading people to believe that this is 'getting ahead' in life and that it is in fact the correct course to pursue. They would call people 'suckers' or 'failures' to not being able to get connected with the groups that have the money, the influence, the right parties, and the right connections. After all, how many of us could stand doing better work than the person next to us but seeing them promoted and showered with accolades? Moneys can't stand to see what they perceive as unfair remuneration for tasks, and people are the same. So wouldn't you refuse to allow yourself to be the sucker if you could avoid it? Especially if you were highly ambitious and energetic? I think it would take some serious humility for people who walk in those quarters to say "it's ok, I don't need to be that successful, maybe my show even gets cancelled, but I won't do this thing." I'm not saying I approve, but I think I sympathize: you would have to re-write your entire conception of reality to realize how everything you've done is wrong and you should probably go join a Trappist monastery and practice silence.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2211 on: December 22, 2022, 01:37:43 PM »
Except a whole bunch of these people call themselves Christians and that is not a Christian belief. Of course they call themselves Christians but do not follow the teachings of Christ, except when they want to.

Fenring

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2212 on: December 22, 2022, 02:00:53 PM »
Sorry, my sentence above should read "monKeys can't stand to see..."

Except a whole bunch of these people call themselves Christians and that is not a Christian belief. Of course they call themselves Christians but do not follow the teachings of Christ, except when they want to.

For a certain type of person, being "Christian" is just another version of being part of the right in-crowd with the right connections. Maybe we could call that "christian" with a lower-case c, since it's just a club name for them. The "except when they want to" would essentially be never, unless you mean appearing to follow them at convenient times, which is just a Pharisee by another name.


msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2213 on: December 23, 2022, 06:21:42 PM »
Well the AZ GOP AG challenge got tossed for lack of evidence.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-judge-dismisses-gop-ag-205931836.html


msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2214 on: December 24, 2022, 02:34:09 PM »
Well Kari Lake had her day in court and she gets tossed.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-tosses-kari-lakes-election-190640145.html


"Maricopa County Judge Peter Thompson, who oversaw the two-day trial, ruled that Lake’s legal team never offered clear and convincing evidence showing the election was rigged against her."

She lost. It was not stolen. The people with their "The only way I can lose is if it is stolen from me" are so full of crap.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2215 on: December 27, 2022, 10:07:04 AM »
16 Trump lawyers have been sanctioned for their frivolous  law suits on behalf of RINO Trump.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-lawyers-keep-getting-slammed-140000084.html

I wonder how much longer it will be before lawyers are no longer willing to represent him?

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2216 on: December 27, 2022, 10:33:31 AM »
16 Trump lawyers have been sanctioned for their frivolous  law suits on behalf of RINO Trump.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-lawyers-keep-getting-slammed-140000084.html

I wonder how much longer it will be before lawyers are no longer willing to represent him?

There is a non-zero overlap between QAnon and people practicing law. People have always been willing to represent the reprehensible. The question that you're asking, I think, is how many lawyers will be willing to file these types of claims on behalf of Trump. The answer is, all the true believers and people who are offered consulting gigs or are willing to just set up shop in another state. Maybe lawyers who don't really have a great or current practice, like Giuliani. RG isn't going to care about being disbarred.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2217 on: December 27, 2022, 11:07:13 AM »
So when a judge finds against Kari Lake she accuses the judge of having his decision ghost written.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lake-deletes-tweet-targeting-maricopa-145038058.html

The fact that the judge was appointed by a Republican does not matter.  In MAGA world there is no losing, only having the other side over rule their own sense of justice.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2218 on: December 27, 2022, 03:10:25 PM »
So is lying about your job and other personal facts to get elected enough fraud to have an election redone?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/defeated-george-santos-opponent-demands-172137632.html

Someone on this thread, or maybe another, had talked about the Fraud of what Biden had said during the election of 2020.

Of course whether those statements were fraud or just normal political hyperbole is debatable.

Now we have a case of out right lying about personal facts used to help sway the election.  Is that enough fraud to redo the election?

How many RINO MAGA people would vote against this guy even if they knew he lied to them the first time?

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2219 on: December 27, 2022, 03:50:30 PM »
Not having a college degree will just make him more attractive to Republicans. A do over election sounds like a great way for both men to chow down on fundraising though.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2220 on: December 27, 2022, 03:54:22 PM »
I like the line that since he found Jewish ancestry on his Mother's side, he could claim to Jew-ish but not Jewish.

The new sitcom coming this fall. Jew-ish.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2221 on: December 27, 2022, 04:00:18 PM »
Well the judge is not going to sanction Kari Lakes lawyers.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-denies-hobbs-request-sanction-191956249.html

cherrypoptart

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2222 on: December 27, 2022, 05:57:43 PM »
Hot take trigger warning. If you lie about being a Native American or having a college degree or having worked at certain companies, being Jewish or being gay or being black then part of the idea that you shouldn't have the job you got because of your lies is that liars shouldn't be rewarded but there is another part of it being that you don't deserve that job or college application approval or whatever because it should have gone to a Native American, a black woman, a gay person or someone who worked at a big financial firm or went to an Ivy League school. I think everyone can agree with the first part that liars shouldn't be rewarded but if they're honest some of the conservatives could secretly sympathize with someone lying about who they are to get a job or college application approval because what it means is that if they hadn't they wouldn't have gotten that job because they would have been discriminated against for being not being one of the preferred groups and just being plain straight white and not elite. So if you see conservatives not getting too worked up about this that might be part of the reason why, because rampant culturally and governmentally accepted blatant discrimination against straight white men is real. Hypocritical? Admittedly. But that's how it goes sometimes.

Where conservatives might draw the line is with the stolen valor issue. Lie about military service and that's crossing a bridge too far, or something.

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2223 on: December 27, 2022, 07:03:29 PM »
Hot take trigger warning. If you lie about being a Native American or having a college degree or having worked at certain companies, being Jewish or being gay or being black then part of the idea that you shouldn't have the job you got because of your lies is that liars shouldn't be rewarded but there is another part of it being that you don't deserve that job or college application approval or whatever because it should have gone to a Native American, a black woman, a gay person or someone who worked at a big financial firm or went to an Ivy League school. I think everyone can agree with the first part that liars shouldn't be rewarded but if they're honest some of the conservatives could secretly sympathize with someone lying about who they are to get a job or college application approval because what it means is that if they hadn't they wouldn't have gotten that job because they would have been discriminated against for being not being one of the preferred groups and just being plain straight white and not elite. So if you see conservatives not getting too worked up about this that might be part of the reason why, because rampant culturally and governmentally accepted blatant discrimination against straight white men is real. Hypocritical? Admittedly. But that's how it goes sometimes.

Where conservatives might draw the line is with the stolen valor issue. Lie about military service and that's crossing a bridge too far, or something.

Generally agree with your post. Look at the result of Biden pledging to select a black women as a running mate - and ignored competency and content of charachter over identity politics. Stolen valor is a legitimate cause for recrimination. That was one of the flaws that wrecked Kerry's chances at the Presidency.

The problem with the election apologists that can't see the need for transparent voting, is that many politicians have used chicanery to win election and have gotten away with it. Voting scams are real, and too many here proclaim their own party's innocence - and project their own historic scams onto others. Trump is an exception to any condemnation, because we now know he was unfairly attacked by liars and a weaponized DOJ. No one can say Biden was fairly elected, when the polls said 17% of his voters said they would not have voted for him if they had known there was no Russian collusion or that the Biden Crime Family criminality was known to be proven well before the election.

The complicit MSM makes it worst, because keeping the voters ignorant seems to be the MSM's new business plan.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2224 on: December 27, 2022, 07:57:25 PM »
e polls said 17%

That's oddly specific. Where did you fish that out from?

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2225 on: December 27, 2022, 08:35:07 PM »
Wm you keep believing that and your RINO MAGA party will never win another election as the majority of the people know that that line is full of crap.

Kari Lake was not able to bring even one person to court who said that they had been prevented from voting. Out of tens of thousands of people who were supposedly prevented from voting, not a single one showed up at the hearing.

Not one.


Tom

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2226 on: December 27, 2022, 08:45:51 PM »
Quote
if they're honest some of the conservatives could secretly sympathize with someone lying about who they are to get a job
That's kind of an absurd hypothetical, given that it's impossible to find an honest conservative nowadays.

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2227 on: December 27, 2022, 09:02:38 PM »
Biden voters were lied to, and they are not happy about it. Does anyone argue facts?

Media Research Center, a conservative watchdog organization, tested that theory recently in a poll of 1,750 voters in seven swing states.

What they learned in an admittedly small survey was that one of every six Biden voters (17%) said they would not have voted for him had they known the facts about several of the news stories the national media refused to investigate thoroughly because they might have hurt his candidacy.

Had one of six voters not voted for Biden in the swing states, or voted for Trump instead, the election would have turned out differently.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2228 on: December 27, 2022, 09:08:48 PM »
So small sample size done by a conservative group with no other info given on methodology, and we are supposed to take that as gospel that Biden would have lost? I would like to see the questions asked.  Can you give a link to the survey and the analysis? Or is this another one of your things that you found but was later wiped from the internet by the power that be that did not want anyone else to see it?

Should we get rid of the Constitution like Trump thinks we should? Are you OK with that? You must be since you are a RINO MAGA supporter.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2229 on: December 28, 2022, 01:45:09 AM »
Quote
I think everyone can agree with the first part that liars shouldn't be rewarded but if they're honest some of the conservatives could secretly sympathize with someone lying about who they are to get a job or college application approval because what it means is that if they hadn't they wouldn't have gotten that job because they would have been discriminated against for being not being one of the preferred groups and just being plain straight white and not elite.

I have very little sympathy for these whinners who blame minority groups for their mediocracy.

According to this site, 55% of college students are white.  Over half.  That means that, on average, these whinners were not in the top half of the applicants to the college.  They were probably farther down the list, since there were doubtlessly many qualified minority candidates who were academically better than them, too.

So what you end up with is someone around the bottom third of the applicant pool who is complaining that they were better qualified than a minority candidate in the bottom third who was admitted. :)

But then you get into the question of what "better qualified" means.  Is someone who had the same grade point average and SAT score from a violent slum school less qualified than a person from a well-run, well-funded (or perhaps private) school?  Is the first person in a family to go to college less qualified than a person from a family where everyone went to college?  Is the kid who fought tooth-and-nail to make it into college less qualified than a kid who gave only enough to get mediocre grades?

So if a college gives points to someone who overcame obstacles to get into college more points than someone who didn't have as many, is that racist?  If a college wants to have a diverse student body, so their students can experience working with those different than themselves, and choose a diverse student over a mediocre student, is that racist?  Or is that simply saying that grades and SAT scores are not the only reason a college must choose a student?

Look at these labor statistics from 2020.  Which categories are whites severely under-represented compared to Asians, Blacks, Latinos, and Native Americans?  Point out where they are racially disadvantaged.  Then also point out where they are not.

Yes, some "less-qualified" students have been accepted to universities over mediocre white students because of race.  But the top students are still accepted over less-qualified students regardless of race.  And whites are still among the majority of students accepted.

So those who are passed over because they are white, I have only one piece of advice:  become better, so that you are no longer in the bottom half of all candidates.  Then you will find it much easier to be accepted, regardless of your race. :)

cherrypoptart

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2230 on: December 28, 2022, 11:33:51 AM »
Maybe that's just as well as they can do. The people I feel most sorry for are the not so bright and talented Asians who are just regular human beings like most people. They get discriminated against the most with the assumption that since they are Asian they must be super gifted. What if some of them are only as smart as your average black student? They get sent all the way to the back of the bus, and then while the bus is traveling down the street that emergency door there is opened and they are booted off and try to roll as they land but end up choking in a cloud of dust on the side of the road and that's if they are lucky and don't get hit by a truck as they are tumbling on the tarmac. Isn't it racist to assume that just because a kid is Asian or to a lesser extent white that there is a natural expectation that they can perform so much better than blacks and Hispanics so they can overcome the institutional racism being practiced against them? Isn't it racist to say hey you are Asian so you should be doing better than everyone else?

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2231 on: December 28, 2022, 03:47:41 PM »
For starters, I find it astonishing that anybody thinks that Supreme Court justices are gathered in based on their ability or merit. First, there's ageism because you want that judge to be there a long, long time. Then political connections, having gone to the right kind of schools, who you clerked for. Does anyone really think Kavanaugh was the best constitutional scholar available? That his rulings were so scintillating that everyone marvelled at his insights and deft logic?

And if there really is a lack of representation by people of color at the highest achievement levels, doesn't that indicate to you that there were systemic issues that held them back? Because otherwise, you're left with the unpalatable conclusion that they are in fact inferior, and that no black women could possibly be at the highest levels of jurisprudence, so to declare you are going to hire one means you must be discriminating against someone else.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2232 on: January 05, 2023, 07:28:10 AM »
kari Lake now calls herself the "Duly elected Gov of AZ" even though recounts and law suits say she lost.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/arizona-election-loser-kari-lake-040412430.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_11

So she has one upped Trump. I wonder if he will start calling himself the Duly elected President?

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2233 on: January 13, 2023, 07:13:34 AM »
More election fraud found. And suprise, suprise it is another Republican.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/republican-candidates-wife-arrested-charged-234347668.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_11

This is how the Republicans know there is voter fraud going on. They are the ones doing it.  Not on a massive scale, but small time.

But they are sure that the stupid, lazy, incompetent Democrats are doing it on a massive scale that leaves no sign anywhere. How devious.

Tom

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2234 on: January 13, 2023, 09:33:05 AM »
To be fair, an Alabaman Democrat was caught ballot-stuffing during the recent primary, too. This kind of piddly crap does in fact happen on "both" sides, even if it's far more prevalent among Republicans nowadays.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2235 on: January 27, 2023, 10:26:40 AM »
Well it looks like Trump secrectly funded part of the AZ 2020 election audit.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/revealed-trump-secretly-donated-1m-110050092.html

Shell companies, allied groups. People asking for the audit saying Trump was not involved. Standard stuff for Trump.

From the article.

Bill Gates, the Republican vice-chair of the Maricopa county board of supervisors at the time of the Cyber Ninjas audit, said he was “disappointed, but not surprised” by the Guardian’s revelation that Trump had helped to pay for it. “I have no problem with audits,” Gates said.

“What I have a problem with is an audit that is undertaken with a goal in mind, and that is literally being funded by one of the candidates. This is absolutely what we do not want to happen.”

Gates pointed out that under Arizona law, electoral candidates are not allowed to fund vote recounts which have to be financed with taxpayer dollars. Though the Cyber Ninjas review was technically not a recount, it served a similar purpose.

“At the very least, it is highly hypocritical for the Arizona state senate to have allowed the audit to be funded in this fashion,” Gates said.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 10:28:42 AM by msquared »

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2236 on: January 30, 2023, 03:25:15 PM »
Now that the records from Cyber Ninjas are finally being released we are finding out how unqualified they were.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-election-audit-full-ineptitude-110509832.html

Of course the auditors were asking Trump for money, which is against the law.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2237 on: February 03, 2023, 07:38:31 AM »
In Wisconsin Trump's team knew that the election was not stolen but still used that to fan the flames.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-campaign-staff-2020-election-023357021.html

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #2238 on: February 03, 2023, 09:32:31 AM »
In Wisconsin Trump's team knew that the election was not stolen but still used that to fan the flames.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-campaign-staff-2020-election-023357021.html

Everyone knows and knew that. Even his most devoted followers, 'know' at some level of consciousness. They don't care. No facts, no proof, nothing anyone says... will change what we 'know'. Its the joy of swimming in the mud, and we that we had/have it to good.