Election Results

[msquared]

Well the AZ guy, Fincham, has been sanctioned for his unfounded election suits.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/finchem-sanctioned-over-baseless-arizona-225309870.html

From the judge "was groundless and not brought in good faith."  Just like all of the other suits over the past 2-3 years. Losing is not evidence of fraud.

[msquared]

Murdoch at Fox says the 2020 election was not stolen.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/voting-tech-firm-spotlights-murdochs-215009043.html

But saying so would hurt ratings and cost them money, so they had to find a scapegoat, and the voting machine companies were made the target.

[msquared]

Jenna Ellis admits to giving misleading info about the election.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-attorney-admits-misrepresenting-evidence-161623792.html

How much more evidence do Trumpist need to admit 2020 was a fair election?

[msquared]

Posted here as well.

It looks like Trump's team knew the Dominoin machines did not switch votes.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/caught-tape-trump-official-told-032055968.html

[Pete at Home]

Jenna Ellis admits to giving misleading info about the election.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-attorney-admits-misrepresenting-evidence-161623792.html

How much more evidence do Trumpist need to admit 2020 was a fair election?

I can’t speak for the Trumpists (I’ve never voted for him yet) but there’s obviously no free elections when the FBI, Twitter, MSNBC, CNN, NYT, all collaborated with the FBI suppressing the Laptop & evidence of the virus’ origin.

There’s no consent of the governed without informed consent.

If one can impeach Trump for Russian collusion that did not happen, then actual Chinese money, a convenient virus, and collaboration by Homeland & Pfizer raise reasonable eyebrows about the 2020 election.

Not that a regime that rejects federalism, separation of powers, free speech, the right to bear arms, & other bill of rights points could ever legitimately sit in the White House, even if it held a majority.

Dominion who?

[msquared]

Pete

I disagree with you completly.

Hunter's laptop had no effect on my decision.  I voted for Biden because I could not stand Trump. I would have prefered anyone else to Trump, especially in 2020. Trump's repsonse to the pandemic, I think, caused him to lose the election and it was his own fault.

I do not think there was any more interference in that election than any other election this century.

When you hear Trump and his allies talk about how they are going to claim fraud if they lose, months before the election that just shows to me that Trump and his allies do not care about the election process, other than how they can abuse it and cause people to distrust it.

[TheDrake]

Global conspiracy, global conspiracy, SQUAWK!

Nobody has proof of the global conspiracy because of the global conspiracy!

Laptop laptop laptop, SQUAWK!

[msquared]

Lack of evidence of fraud is proof of how profound the fraud is and how deep the fraud goes. The lack of evidence is the evidence.

[Tom]

there’s obviously no free elections when the FBI, Twitter, MSNBC, CNN, NYT, all collaborated with the FBI

I think if you're going to call that (extremely low bar) "collaboration," then there is absolutely no doubt that the Trump campaign extensively colluded with Russian intelligence. And yet most people I've seen making that argument would wholly reject that conclusion.

[Wayward Son]

I can’t speak for the Trumpists (I’ve never voted for him yet) but there’s obviously no free elections when the FBI, Twitter, MSNBC, CNN, NYT, all collaborated with the FBI suppressing the Laptop & evidence of the virus’ origin.

There’s no consent of the governed without informed consent.

Since perfect information is impossible, I guess there has never been a legitimate government in our country.  But that means we have no legitimate laws, so it doesn't matter!

If one can impeach Trump for Russian collusion that did not happen...

I suppose you mean "impeach" in the informal sense, since (as I recall) of the two impeachments of Donald Trump, neither was for Russian collusion.

But, of course, then one must consider how Binden's been wrongly impeached for being senile, a Chinese stooge, etc. etc. etc.

[Pete at Home]

Pete

I disagree with you completly.

Hunter's laptop had no effect on my decision.  I voted for Biden because I could not stand Trump. I would have prefered anyone else to Trump, especially in 2020. Trump's repsonse to the pandemic, I think, caused him to lose the election and it was his own fault.

I do not think there was any more interference in that election than any other election this century.

When you hear Trump and his allies talk about how they are going to claim fraud if they lose, months before the election that just shows to me that Trump and his allies do not care about the election process, other than how they can abuse it and cause people to distrust it.

See you *can* respond to what I said. Why don’t we have more discussions like this?

I believe you as to your own vote. I imagine most Biden voters could say the same. But we’re dealing less than 1% margins in key states, and many of my fellow travelers voted for Biden & would not have if they’d been informed on Hunter’s laptop. Or if Pfizer vaccine announced had been timed 10 days earlier. Etc.

Then there are folks like me, who didn’t vote for Biden, but might have voted for Trump if we had been honestly informed. 2020 made me take back my 8 year vow to stay TF away from Twitter.😂

[Mynnion]

If you are going to go there lets talk about the last minute email discovery that was released days before the 2016 election that turned out to show nothing new.

I will also say that no one I knew would have voted for Trump no matter what was reported.  It was not a vote for Biden but a vote against Trump. 

Anyway as someone who studied law you should know that while there appear to have been some legitimate files on the laptop there is no way to prove that it belonged to Hunter and that the majority of the contents were his.  There is no chain of custody and the gentlemen whose shop it was dropped off at has stated that there were files added after it left his custody.  Not exactly a solid piece of evidence.

[Pete at Home]

.

I will also say that no one I knew would have voted for Trump no matter what was reported.  It was not a vote for Biden but a vote against Trump. 

Anyway as someone who studied law you should know that while there appear to have been some legitimate files on the laptop there is no way to prove that it belonged to Hunter and that the majority of the contents were his.  There is no chain of custody and the gentlemen whose shop it was dropped off at has stated that there were files added after it left his custody.  Not exactly a solid piece of evidence.

As someone who studied law I know that Hunter’s attempt to sue to get the laptop back is called an admission against interest, and also a court proceeding. It’s also bleeding obvious.

Trump was impeached because of false claims about Russian collusion. Biden was clearly bought & paid for by China.

“If you are going to go there lets talk about the last minute email discovery that was released days before the 2016 election that turned out to show nothing new”

We did. Endlessly. Boo-hoo Hoo trumps illegitimate. And nobody got called a traitor. Women marched and wore their p💣 hats, and the FBI never tried to entrap them.  Security didn’t throw stun grenades at them while they were standing peacefully around.

The women’s march featured a woman who had raped and murdered a gay man. Hero hero.

Hey, anything else you’d like to talk about that’s already been talked about into the ground? Not censored by the press under orders of homeland security?😂

Can you produce a  people who will say publicly & under their own name that they voted for Trump in 2016 because of … what was it … “last minute email discoveries”?

The laptop swung the election. The Russian collusion hoax swung the election. Press & homeland security working in fascist harmony to suppress credible evidence of Chinese bribery.

America is under occupation.

Now I ’m a Christian, and my instructions on how to resist first Reich occupation is fairly benign. Go the extra mile, turn the other cheek, pray for my evil enemy overlords. But there’s nothing saying I have to pretend that Rome is the legitimate authority in Jerusalem. And that their Saddusee lapdogs really are very nice people.

[Tom]

Trump was impeached because of false claims about Russian collusion.

Which claims were false, again?

[msquared]

I do not think you have any more evidence of Biden being bought by China through Hunter than we do of Trump being bought by Saudi Arabia through Jarrod. And Biden was not President when Hunter did his thing, unlike Jarrod.

[Pete at Home]

If you want an argument that 2016 wasn’t legitimate, Comey’s screwup is irrelevant anyway bc the legitimate Democratic candidate was Bernie Sanders. He was prevented from running by a conspiracy in the Democratic Party.


But that’s no where near as serious as the proven conspiracy of Homeland & Christopher Steele to DARVO the public about Russian collusion while Biden was taking money from China both through his son & through other family members. With the Press & Homeland conspiring to broadcast the Russia lie, while suppressing the truth about Chinese bribes.

That’s a completely corrupted electoral process, and it made the difference.

[Pete at Home]

I do not think

When you get that working again, check the laptop story & the 35,000 through his daughter.🙏

[msquared]

Brilliant reply Pete.

[Tom]

I would suggest that there is considerably less reason to think that Biden is owned by China than there is to think that McConnell is owned by China, and that the latter was the cause of his greatest tensions with Trump around the end of the last decade.

[Pete at Home]

Brilliant reply Pete.

It’s better than gaslighting & digging up 25 year old grudges, pumpkin.

[Pete at Home]

I would suggest that there is considerably less reason to think that Biden is owned by China than there is to think that McConnell is owned by China, and that the latter was the cause of his greatest tensions with Trump around the end of the last decade.

Novel idea. I all ears. And unlike M squared, I’m not gonna. Jump up and down about it and predict what you can and can’t show. By all means, Tom, lay out your case.

[msquared]

How was my statement gaslighting or digging up 25 year old grudges?  You made a statement and I refuted it.  And talk about holding grudges.

And I do not think Trump was impeached over Russian collusion the first time. it was the phone call to Zolinsky where he demanded dirt for help.

[Tom]

As far as we know, 80% of McConnell's wealth comes directly from Foremost Shipping, run by his wife's family; in 2014 alone, he received nearly $25m in gifts from his father-in-law, which quintupled his net worth. Foremost is one of the most important and powerful transportation companies in China, and it was precisely because of his wife's strong ties to China (and as a favor to McConnell) that Trump named Chao to his cabinet when he took office (back when he was still trying to woo Chinese business interests, and before he was pressured into scapegoating them.) Disputes between Russia and China took center stage in Trump's foreign policy starting around 2019, with the Chinese faction -- including McConnell -- losing.

Biden's own wealth, on the other hand, appears negligibly impacted at best by any ties to Chinese interests, or even overseas interests in general. His income, which was significant but comparatively modest for most of his career, ballooned during and following his vice presidency due to "speaking engagements" and other forms of kickback, but it doesn't look like even 10% of that money came from foreign sources. His reported net worth is lower than his income would suggest, and his childrens' is higher than theirs would suggest, so it looks like Biden has given about a fifth of his income to charity and about half of it to his kids over the last fifteen years.

While it's entirely possible that Biden is an extremely cheap buy and allowed himself to be corrupted for tens of thousands of dollars in gifts, that's sort of like suggesting that I would give someone naked pictures of my kids or the keys to my house or something equally vile/risky for the adjusted equivalent of a thousand bucks.

[Pete at Home]

Trump was impeached because of false claims about Russian collusion.

Which claims were false, again?

All of the claims in the Christopher Steele dossier, to start with.

Matt Taibbi, and other journalists have looked over the communications between homeland security and other authorities that had no business meddling in the election or in election news, carefully vetting, what information was allowed to be shown to the public. People were kicked off Twitter and off Facebook for saying the truth.

It’s obvious that since this was going on at twitter, that it was going on with other social media, and news agencies.

This is not America.

Taibi’s testified before Congress, and is published all of his findings. There’s no problem with chain of custody. It’s all right there and you can look it up. Aa Billy has more questions, you can send me private communication. M squared was going on about the balloting process and I don’t know anything about that. So carry-on, shuffle the furniture on the titanic, and don’t talk about the iceberg.

I think I’m done on this thread, because the actual election machines are a moot point to me, given the ground fraud and proven conspiracy between homeland and the media to destroy Donald Trump.

Just one more thing: I think we all know it really isn’t about Trump either. Trump got into the election in 2016 as a strawman, and the Baizuo continue to treat him as a straw man while they war on actual liberals like myself & Taibbi, and on working class Americans who have taken Trump as their hero.

[Tom]

All of the claims in the Christopher Steele dossier, to start with.

Leaving aside the "all," were there claims in the dossier that actually mattered to the findings?

Also: I wouldn't call Taibbi a journalist nowadays. He's been carrying water for the Russians for a while now.

[Pete at Home]

How was my statement gaslighting or digging up 25 year old grudges?  You made a statement and I refuted it.  And talk about holding grudges.

Sorry for being unclear. I meant everything that you’ve said to me since I came back to this forum other than this particular thread. Run a search on your own 💩  for the term “25 years” and you’ll see it. It’s hard for me not to read anything you say to me through that lens.


“And I do not think Trump was impeached over Russian collusion the first time. it was the phone call to Zolinsky where he demanded dirt for help.”

That would’ve been a great place to start a good faith argument. But I’m going to just go with. “State my mind, never argue,” and let others look it up for themselves. It’s possible those Russian collusion accusations weren’t part of the impeachment. It’s not material to my overall claim, since homeland security, and the mass media, and the social media are proven to have collaborated in fabricating, disseminating, and suppressing counter evidence to the claims that Putin put Trump in office.

[Pete at Home]

All of the claims in the Christopher Steele dossier, to start with.

Leaving aside the "all," were there claims in the dossier that actually mattered to the findings?

Also: I wouldn't call Taibbi a journalist nowadays. He's been carrying water for the Russians for a while now.

Nice, conspiracy theory, pumpkin

Sloppy poisoning the well. Everything that Taibbi, and the other journalist of the Twitter files have said is backed up by documents w unimpeachable provenance.

Plus, Taibbi hates Trump far more than you even claim to..

[Tom]

Everything that Taibbi, and the other journalist of the Twitter files have said is backed up by documents w unimpeachable provenance.

This is not, I'm afraid, actually true. And speaking here as a former journalist myself who used to absolutely revere Taibbi in the '90s, despite many of his flaws having existed even back then for anyone who was looking, I guarantee you that I'm plenty ashamed of my own blinkered admiration in retrospect.

Again, though, stop with the "pumpkin" bit.

[Pete at Home]

I’m happy not to use that word, you dislike, since you just replied without playing me. 🙏

[Tom]

It's not that I dislike the word "pumpkin." It's that I dislike being demeaned. I honestly don't feel like I should have to "earn" that right by not "playing" you, either.

[Pete at Home]

It's not that I dislike the word "pumpkin." It's that I dislike being demeaned. I honestly don't feel like I should have to "earn" that right by not "playing" you, either.

Gashlighting is demeaning. Functioning you when you play me is not a counterattack. I’m turning the Nether cheek, per the teaching f my rabbi & consegliere, Issa Bin X.

It’s not about you, Tom. This is about my surviving your psychological abuse with some vestige of inward dignity.

[Tom]

Please don't justify your bad behavior towards me by pretending that I mistreat you, Pete.

[rightleft22]

Pete though I think you have valid arguments to make the notion of gaslighting and being played with appears to be assoicated with anyone question your conclusions, methods, word choices and or sources makes constructive dialog very difficult. I also find your use of labels distracting to the arguments you make.

In affect you have silenced me.  I am not clever enough to engage and so will take a step back.

Being older now I recognized that my opinions have never made any difference to the events that overtake us and so I take them lightly. If they have any value it is to myself and I no longer wish that they impact my emotional well being. Still I seek to understand others.

Life is as it is and must be. Our interaction reminded me of that and was a good 'practice' in letting go.

Last thought
You may call me a fool but I believe that any  'Make anything Great' again movement is nihilist in deed if not intent. A attempt to step on the same water twice in a river that never existed willing to blow up the river that does

[Pete at Home]

In affect you have silenced me.  I am not clever enough to engage and so will take a step back.

Being older now I recognized that my opinions have never made any difference to the events that overtake us and so I take them lightly. If they have any value it is to myself and I no longer wish that they impact my emotional well being. Still I seek to understand others.

Life is as it is and must be. Our interaction reminded me of that and was a good 'practice' in letting go.

Last thought
You may call me a fool but I believe that any  'Make anything Great' again movement is nihilist in deed if not intent. A attempt to step on the same water twice in a river that never existed willing to blow up the river that does

I thought we were OK. I thought we understand each other. That I realized that I was wrong to think you were gaslighting me. You convinced me of your sincerity. Only two in this discussion have not.

I don’t think that you are a fool. You helped me realize that I was being a fool. Therefore, I take it you seriously and will consider what you say., but then I will do what I want. I would you you to do the same.

I accept a possibility that I am the fool, since I don’t understand why you don’t understand this.


“A attempt to step on the same water twice in a river that never existed willing to blow up the river that does”

That’s not an argument. That’s Kara’s hypnosis.

You honor me with that spoof. Saturday Night Live makes fun of Stephen Hawking mumbling.

[Pete at Home]

Your opinion matters a lot to me. I misspoke—to you.

I assume that you’re not going to hold yourself a human shield to protest not letting two specific members punk me without sassing them back. You yield to the present master of the well.

[Tom]

Saying of our interactions that I "punk" you and you "sass" me is, I believe, woefully inaccurate.

[Pete at Home]

Saying of our interactions that I "punk" you and you "sass" me is, I believe, woefully inaccurate.

I don’t know that you do.🤷‍♂️ entire empathic gap here.

It’s hard for me to believe that you believe that such things cannot be seen differently from different points of view.

[msquared]

Well the Republican AZ House expeled a member for bringing in a conspiracy nut to testify on the elections. Harris said she had no idea what Breger was giong to say, but there has been a whole bunch of evidence that she knew exactly what Breger was going to say.

"At the Feb. 23 hearing, Breger claimed that “bribes and infiltration have been used to affect the outcome” of the 2020 and 2022 elections, and she pointed the finger at state officials such as Democratic Gov. Katie Hobbs, according to the ethics committee report."

Also

"Breger also claimed that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “control” government agencies and was “integral to the laundering activities,” the report said."

[Pete at Home]

Well the Republican AZ House expeled a member for bringing in a conspiracy nut to testify on the elections. Harris said she had no idea what Breger was giong to say, but there has been a whole bunch of evidence that she knew exactly what Breger was going to say.

"At the Feb. 23 hearing, Breger claimed that “bribes and infiltration have been used to affect the outcome” of the 2020 and 2022 elections, and she pointed the finger at state officials such as Democratic Gov. Katie Hobbs, according to the ethics committee report."

Also

"Breger also claimed that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “control” government agencies and was “integral to the laundering activities,” the report said."

🙏. In Utah when Trump almost had a Mormon ex-cia guy run seriously against him, one of Trump’s big influencers made Darth threats against an anti Mormon “genocide” if Utah went against Trump. There are fewer than there were in the 80s, but there are still people that think God wanted them to have exterminated the Mormons. And all of those ones are on the right, yes.

[msquared]

Darth threats?  You mean like heavy breathing and holding out a hand in a choking fashion while asking about his lack of faith?

Or do you mean Death threats?


Of course White Christian Nationalist hate Mormons. They do not consider you Christians. Just like most of them do not consider Catholics christians.

[rightleft22]

I thought we were OK. I thought we understand each other.

I think we do and thier is not animosity.

 I've been going over our interactions over the last two days and couldn't think of a how to change how I communicate my thoughts that wouldn't end in the same misunderstandings. I reread and reread what I posted to you and was not able to identify why you felt I was 'playing you other then you didn't like what I said.

You assumed and projected that I was assuming on me. You didn't ask if I was gaslighting you but accused me of it a number of times, each time I apologized , then later in the day notice that I felt I was ungrounded (gaslit?) wondering if perhaps you were also projecting that onto me? But I didn't ask you about because it didn't feel safe to do so only then realizing I had been silenced.   I do not think that was your intent but that was the reality of my experience.

I'm taking the time out because need to take a closer look at why I engage in the first place, as I said its not that I hold on to my opinions like sacred relics, or winning.. (I might be looking for illusion of being seen in a virtual world which is also absurd) . That's not about you though you helped me realized a few things about myself.

I had to google 'Kara’s hypnosis' never saw that SNL clip before. And your right I wasn't making a argument just a personal observation. I find Make Great Again movements absurd and can't imagine such movements achieving anything other then creating the things we Fear. Just a personal observation.

I'll still be lurking just being more careful how I participate.

[Pete at Home]

Darth threats?  You mean like heavy breathing and holding out a hand in a choking fashion while asking about his lack of faith?

Or do you mean Death threats?


Of course White Christian Nationalist hate Mormons. They do not consider you Christians. Just like most of them do not consider Catholics christians.

I.😂👍
2. It was just one guy, so no, there’s been no persecution. Just one freakish warning of Genocide if Utah did not break trump.

3. More Christians right & left do now than before. But the rest are more bitter & angry at having been left behind. 2 of Trump’s guys specifically scare me as much as the wokes, maybe more. A deputy Texas governor candidate called me a “baby killer” over abortion by i support Roe constraints & the RU486 pill, & that’s the most personal threat I’ve had from the right on Twitter.

In Real life, though, sheethead white soup put guns on me, threatened to burn my house down, kill my boys. But those are dirty “Aryan nation” pigs that sell meth to black pimps. So from my observation, white soup is as much of a grift & less of a military threat than Aunty Racists.

[msquared]

Even Ted Cruz knew that Trump and his team did not have any evidence.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ted-cruz-one-trumps-staunchest-081717718.html

[TheDrake]

Of course Ted did. Because he knows that if Democrats were really able to rig elections he wouldn't be a senator anymore.