Author Topic: Election Results  (Read 35914 times)

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #750 on: November 19, 2020, 08:25:27 PM »
And GA is now for Biden.  Officially. Hand recount.  Wonder how the Trump people will spin that. Or try to over turn it.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #751 on: November 19, 2020, 08:51:41 PM »
Quote
As far as "sexy stories" I call nonsense.  Hunter Biden's laptop was a sexy story, literally a game changer.  Joe Biden's connection to it?  Almost a once in a generation scandal if the media wanted it to be.

Seriati, that's because the media investigated the story and determined there was not enough evidence for it to be believed.  They did exactly what you wanted them to do: investigate the story.  But, apparently, because they came to a different conclusion than you did, you think they didn't investigate.

How is it that you keep buying these f**king LIES?  I thought you were an intelligent person.  :o

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #752 on: November 19, 2020, 08:58:25 PM »
And GA is now for Biden.  Officially. Hand recount.  Wonder how the Trump people will spin that. Or try to over turn it.

He’s already started two lines of attack.
1) They recounted fraudulent votes.
2) They found extra votes, even though it was republican counties and the found votes netted Trump 1,000 votes that’s still somehow evidence of democratic malfeasance in the election and recount.

Just remember neither logic and facts are required for Trump.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #753 on: November 19, 2020, 09:03:29 PM »
How is it that you keep buying these f**king LIES?  I thought you were an intelligent person.  :o

He’s highly intelligent. Unfortunately research shows sometimes people use their intelligence to tell themselves convincing lies. Most of our members actually make stronger cases for Trump than Trump does. They take his absolute nonsense and try to apply a logical rationale to it.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #754 on: November 20, 2020, 07:34:00 AM »
So even Tucker Carlson is starting to get pissed off with the Trump legal team. He offers one of them time to come on and present their evidence of fraud. He says they would spend a whole hour, hell a whole week if they want.  And the Trump lawyer does not return their calls. Tells them to do their own work.

This is becoming a farce. More then 2 weeks of claiming proof of massive voter fraud in several states, and not a single bit of evidence. They scream loudly in the press, but carry a really tiny stick in court and get tossed out time and time again, even by courts that you might think would be friendly.  But nothing.

If the Republicans want to see riots, just keep going down the path of trying an end run around legitimate voting results.

And I keep hearing this talking point about how Trump got the most votes of any candidate every (except Biden, who got 7-8 million more), with no comment on how the population has grown as well.  It is a stupid number.  I will make a prediction now. At least one candidate in 2028 will get the most votes ever.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #755 on: November 20, 2020, 08:41:36 AM »
If the Republicans want to see riots, just keep going down the path of trying an end run around legitimate voting results.

Or just keep going down the route of not loudly and publicly denouncing Trump. But it may already be too late for that. 50 million Republicans believe that Trump lost fraudulently. Its already been discussed at how hard it is to change minds about something like this.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #756 on: November 20, 2020, 08:46:47 AM »
Just look at how sincerely some folks here believe - even after Trump's legal team has lost 30 times (!) in court they still believe the next internet allegation will be the one.  And that one thing is going to span multiple states.  And be so effective as to change millions of votes. But be so well hidden that it went completely unnoticed until now.

The belief is not rational, but it is strong.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #757 on: November 20, 2020, 08:55:05 AM »
I think I know why Giuliani is now the lawyer.  Normal lawyers will get disbarred if they lie to the court. But Giuliani has not practiced in almost 30 years and has no real plans to practice again, so if he lies and gets disbarred, what loss is there?

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #758 on: November 20, 2020, 09:12:10 AM »
Did DonaldD just post a false claim?  Yes he did.  Did he get caught in  it?  Yes he did.  Is he trying to change the subject by making more false claims?  Yep he sure is.
Hmmm, you keep repeating falsehoods, and seemingly are doing it purposefully... there must be a word for purposefully repeating falsehoods that one knows to be untrue, but the word escapes me.

I cannot help that you want to interpret my words to mean something that I did not say, but repeatedly doing so isn't a good look for you.  Bringing up Mueller as a distraction also doesn't help.  There is a world of difference between not finding criminal intent, as Mueller was loathe to do, and the simple observation that I made, which was of the multiple instances of cooperation between Russian agents and agents of the Trump campaign and transition teams.  In practice, trying to extend Mueller lack of findings of criminal activity to whitewash clearly problematic actions of coordinating with an enemy power, as did multiple people in the Trump orbit, is the real dishonesty.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #759 on: November 20, 2020, 09:25:37 AM »
  • Lindsey Graham reaches out to multiple states, and pressures those involved in the certification process to throw out legal votes.
  • The president of the country (also the candidate for the GOP) calls up a state/county level certification board member, who then attempts to change their decision on certification in a way that, coincidentally, would benefit the candidate.
  • The president of the country invites the two GOP leaders of the Michigan legislature to Washington, legislators who would need to be convinced to begin the process of overriding the electoral results in Michigan before any steps to do so could be triggered in the state house.
Why aren't GOP supporters screaming about abuse of power and conflicts of interest here, if they truly are concerned with electoral fraud?  These actions present a clear perception of conflict of interest, and arguably illegal attempts to change the outcome of the election.  Where are the honourable Republicans?

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #760 on: November 20, 2020, 09:29:28 AM »
    ...
  • The president of the country invites the two GOP leaders of the Michigan legislature to Washington, legislators who would need to be convinced to begin the process of overriding the electoral results in Michigan before any steps to do so could be triggered in the state house.

I can't imagine any upside to these two taking the meeting with Trump. No matter what they do afterwards they stink. If they override the vote it looks like blatant corruption and bribery. If they don't override the vote they make Trump and his supporters mad. A smart politician would stay in Michigan and try to ignore the President on his way out the door.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #761 on: November 20, 2020, 09:38:59 AM »
Ok this was by a Federal judge appointed by Trump.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/federal-judge-rejects-trump-ally-025812865.html

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #762 on: November 20, 2020, 09:51:58 AM »
An article on Americans who don't believe Trump lost, some of whom are ready to "go to war" over the issue.

Quote
In Reuters interviews with 50 Trump voters, all said they believed the election was rigged or in some way illegitimate. Of those, 20 said they would consider accepting Biden as their president, but only in light of proof that the election was conducted fairly. Most repeated debunked conspiracy theories espoused by Trump, Republican officials and conservative media claiming that millions of votes were dishonestly switched to Biden in key states by biased poll workers and hacked voting machines.

Many voters interviewed by Reuters said they formed their opinions by watching emergent right-wing media outlets such as Newsmax and One American News Network that have amplified Trump’s fraud claims. Some have boycotted Fox News out of anger that the network called Biden the election winner and that some of its news anchors - in contrast to its opinion show stars - have been skeptical of Trump’s fraud allegations. ...

Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

“If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar...

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #763 on: November 20, 2020, 11:20:25 AM »
Biden is now set to exceed 80,000,000 votes (he is currently short about 340,000) and his margin of victory over Trump sits at about 6,000,000 votes.  New York still has more than 20% of its votes to publish.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #764 on: November 20, 2020, 11:32:10 AM »
  • Lindsey Graham reaches out to multiple states, and pressures those involved in the certification process to throw out legal votes.
  • The president of the country (also the candidate for the GOP) calls up a state/county level certification board member, who then attempts to change their decision on certification in a way that, coincidentally, would benefit the candidate.
  • The president of the country invites the two GOP leaders of the Michigan legislature to Washington, legislators who would need to be convinced to begin the process of overriding the electoral results in Michigan before any steps to do so could be triggered in the state house.
Why aren't GOP supporters screaming about abuse of power and conflicts of interest here, if they truly are concerned with electoral fraud?  These actions present a clear perception of conflict of interest, and arguably illegal attempts to change the outcome of the election.  Where are the honourable Republicans?

They are not upset because He is the One True Orange God, who must verily use these tactics in the name of righteousness and to save us from the evil Socialists! Praise Be Unto Him.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #765 on: November 20, 2020, 02:06:05 PM »
They are not upset because He is the One True Orange God, who must verily use these tactics in the name of righteousness and to save us from the evil Socialists! Praise Be Unto Him.

Well, "honourable" doesn't actually preclude "batch!t crazy", so point taken...

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #766 on: November 20, 2020, 02:15:33 PM »
And now, he's trying it with Pennsylvania..

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Two sources tell CNN there are discussions currently underway with the President about inviting Republican state legislators from Pennsylvania to the White House.

It's not clear if those invitations have been extended yet, but President Trump has expressed interest in doing so as he tries to insert himself into the vote certification process.

Maybe he actually is angling for a pardon as a bribe for not blowing up the country...

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #767 on: November 20, 2020, 02:35:05 PM »
You guys make me laugh. Jennt Ellis and Guiliani said the suits that were dropped were due to lack of standing. That is not Earth-shattering legal breakthroughs that dismiss the Vote-scamming charges.

What you cannot get around are the first-person affidavits from Poll workers who said they have personal knowledge of wide-spread fraud.

It is not wild conspiracy theory that the Smartmatic software with the Dominion system is easily corruptible. It is not conspiracy that the system was designed for Hugo Chavez. ...Or that the owners all have an axe to grind against Trump. Eyewitness testimony says the numbers are grossly inaccurate. I did see the graph of the input numbers that were changed from Trump to Biden. Then Big Tech took them down. Everything Guiliani and Powell have cited are documented. Why do you claim everything is a lie?

Did you do this with Adam Schiff and his whistleblower?

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #768 on: November 20, 2020, 02:42:50 PM »
Are Trump's lawyers that bad that they do not know how to file a case where they have standing? Even ones with affidavits that have been tossed out as not specific enough in their claims?

1-about 30 so far in law suits.  It is time to put up or shut up. Give the evidence to the judges.  You keep claiming conspiracies' but no evidence.

How about those servers in Germany?  Or the State of Michigan not certifying the results? You made both of those claims. And they ended up wrong.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #769 on: November 20, 2020, 02:50:21 PM »
Interesting?  Maybe.  Surprising?  Not really - he was a historically disliked incumbent - he never once reached 50% approval, which no other modern president had failed to achieve.

Plus, you know, 250,000 dead people, AKA 83 9/11s.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #770 on: November 20, 2020, 02:52:34 PM »
It is not wild conspiracy theory that the Smartmatic software with the Dominion system is easily corruptible. It is not conspiracy that the system was designed for Hugo Chavez. ...Or that the owners all have an axe to grind against Trump. Eyewitness testimony says the numbers are grossly inaccurate. I did see the graph of the input numbers that were changed from Trump to Biden. Then Big Tech took them down. Everything Guiliani and Powell have cited are documented. Why do you claim everything is a lie?
And yet - no evidence of vote switching in Georgia, which just completed a complete hand-recount.

Oh, they knew not to touch Georgia?  Must've been because they were so confident of winning there.  Darn, those Democrats are soooo smart!  Foiled again!

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #771 on: November 20, 2020, 03:01:41 PM »
You guys make me laugh.
...

How about 2012 Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney:
Quote
Having failed to make even a plausible case of widespread fraud or conspiracy before any court of law, the President has now resorted to overt pressure on state and local officials to subvert the will of the people and overturn the election. It is difficult to imagine a worse, more undemocratic action by a sitting American President

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #772 on: November 20, 2020, 03:08:04 PM »
What you cannot get around are the first-person affidavits from Poll workers who said they have personal knowledge of wide-spread fraud.

And the Trump campaign hasn't managed to get any of these poll workers or their affidavits in front of a judge? Its almost like Rudy is making them up or greatly exaggerating their claims to the media.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #773 on: November 20, 2020, 03:11:48 PM »
Quote
What you cannot get around are the first-person affidavits from Poll workers who said they have personal knowledge of wide-spread fraud.

Too bad none of them gathered any evidence, or can corroborate any claims.

Quote
Instead, the campaign produced 238 pages of affidavits from Republican poll watchers across Michigan containing no evidence of significant fraud but rather allegations about ballot-counting procedures that state workers have already debunked — and in some cases, complaints about rude behavior or unpleasant looks from poll workers or Democratic poll watchers.

They often seemed hampered by a lack of knowledge about Michigan’s election system. One challenger noted with concern that a group of absentee ballots “appeared in pristine condition, as if they had never gone through the U.S. Postal Service.” Michigan allows voters to drop off absentee ballots in drop boxes or at clerks’ offices, avoiding the mail, although it is not clear the circumstances around those ballots.

Many poll watchers, for instance, raised concerns that they saw clerks entering numerous voters’ dates of birth into a computer system as Jan. 1, 1900.

The city of Detroit, in legal filings in another lawsuit, has said that is not an indication of fraud. It said that absentee ballot clerks do not have access to voters’ birth dates but that they use a system that sometimes requires them to enter a date anyway.

So, the city says, clerks are told to enter 1/1/1900 as a placeholder.

A bunch of nothing affidavits coaxed from Orange God Worshippers with little to no training in election procedures.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #774 on: November 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM »
In my best Indigo Montoya voice "I don't think that word means what you think it means." with respect to evidence.

NobleHunter

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #775 on: November 20, 2020, 04:39:09 PM »
There's the affidavits about Michigan listing towns in Minnesota. I'm sure those are significant.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #776 on: November 20, 2020, 05:02:01 PM »
YES!!! They have the full text.

That's GOLD, Jerry!

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #777 on: November 20, 2020, 05:03:57 PM »
Quote
[McEnany] made the comments the day after Fox News cut off a live broadcast of one of her press conferences while she claimed Democrats had been "welcoming illegal voting."

"Unless she has more details to back that up, I can't in good countenance continue showing you this," Fox News' Neil Cavuto said.


wmLambert

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Powell are not enforcement officers and are not part of the loop. The question i
« Reply #778 on: November 20, 2020, 05:09:31 PM »
Are Trump's lawyers that bad that they do not know how to file a case where they have standing? Even ones with affidavits that have been tossed out as not specific enough in their claims?

1-about 30 so far in law suits.  It is time to put up or shut up. Give the evidence to the judges.  You keep claiming conspiracies' but no evidence.

How about those servers in Germany?  Or the State of Michigan not certifying the results? You made both of those claims. And they ended up wrong.

 No, I'm still right.

The only Trump-elated case that was withdrawn was one that had seen its goal succeed already. All other were private parties tat were not looked at due to no standing to bring the suit. Too bad, because all of them were probably dead on. The servers in Frankfort were seized, but Guiliani and Powell are not in the loop, and can't wave a magic wand to get access immediately. They said so at the time.  The Michigan canvassers are still standing against ant certification.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #779 on: November 20, 2020, 05:32:24 PM »
You said Michigan was not going to certify. It was one county that was discussing that they might not (Warren I think) but they did certify. The rest of the state did. And that county did.

So again, why hasn't Trumps team filed any suits with standing? They have had 2-1/2 weeks.

The servers in Germany were not siezed. The Army says they did not and Dominion says they have no servers there.

rightleft22

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Are Trump's lawyers that bad that they do not know how to file a case where they have standing? Even ones with affidavits that have been tossed out as not specific enough in their claims?

1-about 30 so far in law suits.  It is time to put up or shut up. Give the evidence to the judges.  You keep claiming conspiracies' but no evidence.

How about those servers in Germany?  Or the State of Michigan not certifying the results? You made both of those claims. And they ended up wrong.

 No, I'm still right.

The only Trump-elated case that was withdrawn was one that had seen its goal succeed already. All other were private parties tat were not looked at due to no standing to bring the suit. Too bad, because all of them were probably dead on. The servers in Frankfort were seized, but Guiliani and Powell are not in the loop, and can't wave a magic wand to get access immediately. They said so at the time.  The Michigan canvassers are still standing against ant certification.

Your statement does not match reality but then the point of the lawsuits is obviously not to win them
Its to do the very thing which seems to be working on you. - can you say Gas lit

yossarian22c

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Are Trump's lawyers that bad that they do not know how to file a case where they have standing? Even ones with affidavits that have been tossed out as not specific enough in their claims?

1-about 30 so far in law suits.  It is time to put up or shut up. Give the evidence to the judges.  You keep claiming conspiracies' but no evidence.

How about those servers in Germany?  Or the State of Michigan not certifying the results? You made both of those claims. And they ended up wrong.

 No, I'm still right.

The only Trump-elated case that was withdrawn was one that had seen its goal succeed already. All other were private parties tat were not looked at due to no standing to bring the suit. Too bad, because all of them were probably dead on. The servers in Frankfort were seized, but Guiliani and Powell are not in the loop, and can't wave a magic wand to get access immediately. They said so at the time.  The Michigan canvassers are still standing against ant certification.

Servers were seized in Germany by the us army and Trump and his lawyer aren’t in the loop. There are so many things wrong with that narrative and it is ridiculously false and implausible.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #782 on: November 20, 2020, 05:39:56 PM »
I know we shouldn't feed it, but...

Quote
In his remarks, which were widely shared on social media, Gohmert acknowledged that the information about the alleged raid only came from a “German tweet in German,” and he said, “I don’t know the truth.

The Associated Press reached out to Gohmert’s spokesperson but did not hear back.

...

When asked by The Associated Press if the Army had engaged in an operation to recover servers in Germany, an Army spokesperson responded Saturday, “Those allegations are false.

Scytl also refuted the claim. As the false conspiracy spread online, the company released a statement Friday titled, “Fact Checking Regarding US Elections: Debunking Fake News.”

In the statement Scytl said: “We do not have servers or offices in Frankfurt” and “The US army has not seized anything from Scytl in Barcelona, Frankfurt or anywhere else.” It also says Scytl does not “tabulate, tally or count votes in the US.”


msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #783 on: November 20, 2020, 05:47:40 PM »
Donald,

Who are you going to believe? Some unknown internet source or the Army?  I mean every one knows the Army is bought and paid for by the Government. Can't trust anything they say.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #784 on: November 20, 2020, 05:59:55 PM »
One of the things that was constantly complained about in the affidavits was "workers were putting white tape on the envelopes and writing in the number!!!!". I actually found that intriguing because it does sound bad, so I looked up the Michigan processing rules.

link

Without exposing votes, very the stub and the number on the AV list or return envelope.

If the ballot numbers do NOT agree... and no explanation for the discrepancy can be found (eg, voters residing in the same household have switched their ballots), the ballot must be processed as challenged.

So if the number is on the Absent Voter list, the envelope doesn't matter.
It's also pretty likely for multiple members of a household to vote absentee, and it seems pretty likely that they are not going to keep their envelopes straight all the time.

I have to wonder how many people actually read this document before blundering into the counting room.

Also the rules specify carefully that you can't look at who someone voted for while determining such things.

As for the court cases, no, not all of the cases were thrown out because of "lack of standing"

Quote
A Michigan state court judge Friday declined to block the certification of election results in Detroit, rejecting claims in a lawsuit filed by two poll challengers who said they saw several kinds of irregularities that allowed invalid ballots to be counted.

Timothy Kenny, the chief judge of Wayne County Circuit Court, said those making the claims "did not have a full understanding" of the vote counting process and their "interpretation of events is incorrect and not credible."

A bunch of yahoos that didn't know what they were seeing flipped out, and then the Trump campaign used them to cast doubt on the process.

article, there's much much more

Quote
Matthew Sanderson, an election law expert at Caplin and Drysdale in Washington, D.C., said the judge’s ruling was expected.

“City and county attorneys explained very effectively what seemed to be simple misperceptions about the vote-counting process. The plaintiffs asked for an extraordinary order from the court and failed to make a case that would have warranted a suspended vote count or a new election.”

This is the third time a court has had to dismiss Trump supporters’ completely fabricated claims of voting problems in Detroit,” David Fink, a lawyer for the city told NBC News.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #785 on: November 20, 2020, 06:01:51 PM »
Well Mark, clearly this is a rogue branch of the military, since the commander in chief is somehow not in the chain of command over that branch, who are keeping this super relevant info from him and his cronies legal team.

But that makes sense, actually, since the president would want plausible deniability when calling for a military operation within the sovereign jurisdiction of an allied country.  Of course, knowing that, why would he have called for the military strike in the first place..?  That is surely some 5-dimensional chess he is playing right there...

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #786 on: November 20, 2020, 06:04:54 PM »
As for the court cases, no, not all of the cases were thrown out because of "lack of standing"

Quote
A Michigan state court judge Friday declined to block the certification of election results in Detroit, rejecting claims in a lawsuit filed by two poll challengers who said they saw several kinds of irregularities that allowed invalid ballots to be counted.

Timothy Kenny, the chief judge of Wayne County Circuit Court, said those making the claims "did not have a full understanding" of the vote counting process and their "interpretation of events is incorrect and not credible."
The Drake, you just proved wmLambert's point!  I just highlighted the part that you clearly missed.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #787 on: November 20, 2020, 06:31:41 PM »
As for the court cases, no, not all of the cases were thrown out because of "lack of standing"

Quote
A Michigan state court judge Friday declined to block the certification of election results in Detroit, rejecting claims in a lawsuit filed by two poll challengers who said they saw several kinds of irregularities that allowed invalid ballots to be counted.

Timothy Kenny, the chief judge of Wayne County Circuit Court, said those making the claims "did not have a full understanding" of the vote counting process and their "interpretation of events is incorrect and not credible."
The Drake, you just proved wmLambert's point!  I just highlighted the part that you clearly missed.

INT. WMLAMBERTS HOME - EVENING

WmLambert types furiously into a search engine, trying to discredit the judge, the court, and the documentation provided. He snorts in frustration and logs in to 8kun.

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #788 on: November 20, 2020, 07:58:54 PM »
How could Trump win? Well if his good buddy Amy over at the Supreme Court pulls some strings or something and gets tens of thousands of Biden votes thrown out I guess that would do it.

Didn't she say something about recusal if any election issue comes before the court?

Possible 4-4 rulings incoming, in which case, the lower court ruling stands.

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #789 on: November 20, 2020, 08:18:23 PM »
How could Trump win? Well if his good buddy Amy over at the Supreme Court pulls some strings or something and gets tens of thousands of Biden votes thrown out I guess that would do it.

Didn't she say something about recusal if any election issue comes before the court?

Possible 4-4 rulings incoming, in which case, the lower court ruling stands.

Call me naive but I'd be hoping for a 9-0 Supreme Court ruling here. Or 8-0 if there's a recusal. There's hopefully a difference between "conservative judge" and "wants to overthrow democracy".

A split SC on a case like this would be horrific.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #790 on: November 20, 2020, 10:08:40 PM »
Quote
ARIZONA REPUBLICAN PARTY v. ADRIAN FONTES, et al.

IT IS ORDERED the motions to dismiss, by the Maricopa County defendants and the intervenors Secretary of State Katie Hobbs and Arizona Democratic Party, are granted. The plaintiff’s Verified Complaint will be dismissed with prejudice.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the plaintiff’s Application for Preliminary Injunction, to enjoin the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors from certifying the election results and issuing the official canvass, is denied. The motion to amend the complaint is denied as futile.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the Secretary of State may file a motion for attorneys’ fees pursuant to A.R.S. section 12-349 not later than December 7, 2020.

Basically, the Republicans' case was so bad that the judge gave the Secretary of State leave to collect lawyers' fees from the Republicans.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #791 on: November 20, 2020, 11:03:22 PM »
NY Times: Michigan lawmakers, after meeting with Trump, reaffirm that they will honor the state’s vote.

Quote
President Trump on Friday suffered another blow to his unprecedented effort to undo the election results when a delegation of Michigan Republicans, after meeting with Mr. Trump at the White House, said that they would “follow the normal process” in certifying the vote results and honor the outcome.

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #792 on: November 20, 2020, 11:23:35 PM »
NY Times: Michigan lawmakers, after meeting with Trump, reaffirm that they will honor the state’s vote.

Quote
President Trump on Friday suffered another blow to his unprecedented effort to undo the election results when a delegation of Michigan Republicans, after meeting with Mr. Trump at the White House, said that they would “follow the normal process” in certifying the vote results and honor the outcome.

Not a surprise. It has previously been said that absent something happening judicially, the Republicans as a party will not put their neck out for Donald Trump. And Michigan probably had a LOT of republicans from other corners of the country telling them to let the legal process do whatever it will do and stay out of it. Republicans overturning the results for Trump would be an act of ritual suicide for the Republican party that would take the rest of the decade to recover from.

And when the Democrats are the ones of the ropes, you don't do something like that.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #793 on: November 21, 2020, 06:00:55 AM »
I could see a scenario unfolding in which Trump never concedes.

He does leave the White House in a peaceful transfer of power but without ever saying the words, "I concede the election."

Would that really be so bad?

I don't see how it would be any different than what the Democrats have done over the last four years. The impeachment of Trump by Pelosi and the Democrats along with Hillary later calling into question the integrity of the election with her Russian collusion comments was the ultimate expression of refusal to concede the election.

Trump could just say what the Democrats have been saying since he took office, that the election was successfully stolen.

cherrypoptart

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #794 on: November 21, 2020, 06:22:14 AM »
What's interesting now is watching the Democrats pretend to freak out about how the sky is falling if Trump fails to concede the election when that's exactly what they've already done themselves including with a sham kangaroo court impeachment and inciting riots and violence in the streets. I mean usually the accusation is that Democrats accuse the other side of what they are doing but in this case it's accusing the other side of what they've already just done, very publicly and very proudly, for years and years and years already.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #795 on: November 21, 2020, 07:58:39 AM »
I expect you think that the impeachments of Clinton and Nixon were both attempts to invalidate elections, as was the declaration of war against Japan in WWII....

cherrypoptart

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #796 on: November 21, 2020, 09:10:28 AM »
We've entered a new age in politics.

The age of by any means necessary.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #797 on: November 21, 2020, 09:22:09 AM »
<Shrug>

I suspect you know that there is no equivalence to Trump's temper tantrum (in reality, a performative strategy by all accounts) at claiming that the whole electoral process was rigged against him this time (as he also did in 2018 and in 2016) and to Obama making not a single statement about the illegitimacy of the election following Trump's victory over Clinton.  Nor between holding Trump to account for attempting to bribe foreign countries to assist him in defeating his domestic political opponents and having the head of state disparage without evidence the integrity of the whole electoral system (not to mention disparaging without evidence the integrity of the intelligence services over which he has control, disparaging those civil servants who were called to give evidence, under oath, that happened to highlight his bad actions.. you get the picture.)

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #798 on: November 21, 2020, 09:24:35 AM »
This should be interesting: Trump and the Trump campaign are being sued in federal court, where they are being accused of violating the Voting Rights Act by trying to undermine the election results in Michigan.

The claim is that the president and his surrogates violated the Voting Rights Act by "Exerting pressure on state and local officials not to count or certify voters" as those actions violated section 11(b) of the act, because it involves conduct that actually does, or just attempts to, intimidate, threaten or coerce people involved in aiding a person to vote or attempt to vote.

Note that under the act "voting" is defined to include not just the act of voting and a bunch of other stuff around the act itself, but also having ballots counted properly and having them included in vote totals.

Unlike the wave of nuisance suits with which Trump's campaign and surrogates have swamped the courts, this suit would seem to have substance.

Has there been coercion? Well, the president did directly call and speak to at least one of the people responsible for certifying the Wayne County votes.  That is certainly evidence of potential coercion (especially since, coincidentally, that person then attempted to change/recall their vote at their earliest opportunity following that call.)  There was also that transparent and clearly misguided invitation to the Michigan State House leaders to come to the White House.  It is not a huge coincidence that they then made a statement (following the meeting with the president) that they had not been persuaded to override the voting results, which certainly sounds like an attempt was made to have them override voters' decisions...

My guess is that this suit will not be summarily dismissed on its merits.

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #799 on: November 21, 2020, 09:39:54 AM »
We've entered a new age in politics.

The age of by any means necessary.

Do you realize how much like a criminal you sound like? The excuse of "everyone does it" is what every criminal says to himself, as the only way to justify what is otherwise unjustifiable. Because it's literally the worst possible excuse, and almost always it's self-deceit meant to pacify your conscience.

Note, that the people on the 'other side' here, never once claimed that investigating Trump's Russian collusion was actually a case of "by any means necessary", or that it was supposedly justified because Republicans supposedly did it first with Bill Clinton. (I had actually forgotten about Bill Clinton's impeachment, until DonaldD remind me about it just now). Shame on them if they ever did (which I don't expect them to have done). Same way that shame on you right now.

Btw, in case you're too stupid to realize it, "by any means necessary" also implies assassinations and civil war. Be very careful about what you wish for. You are so gloriously happy that you'll have 50 million Americans, many of them armed to the teeth, thinking they're living in a dictatorship, and which would be their moral duty to overthrow, by any means necessary.