Author Topic: Election Results  (Read 26917 times)

noel c.

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #200 on: November 05, 2020, 11:40:30 PM »
The really sad thing is that Biden will assume office without the legitimacy which an electorate expects from constitutional process.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #201 on: November 05, 2020, 11:42:44 PM »
The really sad thing is that Biden will assume office without the legitimacy which an electorate expects from constitutional process.

Why? Because you believe Trump when he claims fraud and shows you no evidence.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #202 on: November 05, 2020, 11:50:12 PM »
Georgia has, excluding any military votes that come in tomorrow, 14,000 remaining votes to tally.
Trump's lead is currently about 1,800.

If Biden receives 57% of the remaining votes, he'll take Georgia.
For context, over the 200,000 most recent votes counted (primarily mail-in) Biden captured about 70% of them to Trump's 30%. It will take a miracle for Trump's lead to hold in Georgia.

Pennsylvania is worse for the president: Trump's lead is down to 0.37% or about 25,000 votes. 
Over the most recent 240,000 votes counted in Pennsylvania, Biden has garnered 100,000 more votes than Trump. There are still about 250,000 votes to count, so if that trend holds, Biden's total will exceed Trump's by a good 75,000.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #203 on: November 05, 2020, 11:55:40 PM »
The really sad thing is that Biden will assume office without the legitimacy which an electorate expects from constitutional process.
Cheer up!  Biden was able to hold on in the face of all that Republican vote fraud you are so worried about.  You should be thankful for the fantastic Democratic turnout, so that the Republican fraud wasn't able to sway the presidential election.

noel c.

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #204 on: November 06, 2020, 01:36:32 AM »
Y-22,

“Why? Because you believe Trump when he claims fraud and shows you no evidence.”

Dumb.

Donald,

”Cheer up!  Biden was able to hold on in the face of all that Republican vote fraud you are so worried about.  You should be thankful for the fantastic Democratic turnout, so that the Republican fraud wasn't able to sway the presidential election.“

... and dumber.

I had mixed feelings about conservatism inheriting the impending economic disaster, especially given that the economy is where Trump has staked his legacy claim. As I assess tangential election fallout, I am actually quite sanguine, and look forward with optimism to the political realignment coming in 2024.

- Conservatism has finally, for the first time in my life, locked in the Supreme Court for a generation. If Trump accomplished nothing else, this single achievement would have excused all of the Trumpian faceplants over the last four years.

- Trump brought to a high resolution the danger posed by an entrenched state bureaucracy that asserts entitlement to govern independently of the American people. I am grateful for that discovery, it will I form my future voting criteria.

- Trump exposed the CCP for the threat they are, and blew any pretense to the contrary out of the water.

- Trump has catalyzed new alliances in the Middle East, and legitimized Israel’s right to exist in a peaceful environment achievable through no previous administration’s efforts.

- Britain is once again on a path to revitalization, and American partnership, via Brexit.

- Trump opened up the Indo-Pacific as an American alliance, particularly in respect to India, which is poised to become the world’s next economic superpower. I recently learned that the Indian Navy is equipping their two aircraft carriers with F-18s, rather than the Su-33. This is a big deal, and I am hopeful that this has set a pattern of cooperation into the future.

- Trump has revitalized our military in a way that will easily survive four years of a Democratic administration.

- Trump has kept us out of foreign wars, as promised.

- Finally, Trump’s provocative style has tipped the left‘s hand on just how ideologically committed they are to the rule of law. The country will never be the same as a result, and it could not have come at a better time in our nation’s history.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 01:38:43 AM by noel c. »

kidv

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #205 on: November 06, 2020, 03:24:42 AM »
Kidv,

“Mr. Tapper then noted that Mr. Trump would have us believe that there is a vast conspiracy to submit sufficient fraudulent votes to defeat Donald J. Trump but allow all the republicans to win in every other instance that Mr. Trump cited.”

Non sequitur.



It's a rhetorical observation of the lack of awareness of the cognitive dissonance by the speaker in a speech, not a directly logical argument.  But it does allude to Occam's razor, whether it's more likely to have A) a vast fraudulent action to undermine Mr. Trump but fail to defeat any of other Republican candidates, or B) a vast network of people who support Republicans but specifically reject Mr. Trump.

To dismiss a thought on a logical fallacy, it would probably be helpful to explain the lack of any evidence for the initial evidence of the claim in the speech.  Where does that fit on the relative value of burden of proof and strength of argument?

kidv

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #206 on: November 06, 2020, 04:04:58 AM »
I moved, within the same Utah zip code, last April. No “mail-in” ballot was sent to me at my current address despite timely reregistration. A new ballot was issued to me in person at my polling station. Would that ballot have been issued if someone submitted the unsolicited ballot linked to me in a dated voter role?

Of course.  Did you see any indication on the voter role in respect of those who'd already voted with mail in votes?  I didn't.  When you consider that those voter logs are maintained in thousands of separate hard copies, it's certainly possible that no one is adequately checking them to discard votes by the same voter already received in the mail.  Is it really possible that no one voted twice or even that there was not any case of an error in recording a vote that made it appear so?

I mean think about, you can't even verify whether a voter voted until after the in-person voting records are compiled and available, which means any mail-in vote separated from it's envelope prior to a point hours after close of polls almost certainly could not have been properly verified.  Any ballot opened without observers able to see the signature match (which is virtually all of them) is a fraud risk.

I read in some states you should shred your mailed ballot if you decide to vote in person, but very little about which vote counts if you vote in person and a mail in ballot is located.  Do they just discard the mailed ballot?  Those ballots would be evidence of potential voter fraud.  Seen any reports on the number of mail in ballots rejected because the voter voted in person (as some were advised where there was a risk their mailed ballot wouldn't be received in time).  Pretty sure I read in NJ the governor was advocating to discard the in-person vote in that situation.


I'm puzzled by this assertion that printing out extra ballots would skip the database.  Any duplicates, if not flagged immediately, would get rejected or resolved as part of the final canvass before the final certification, right? Voter rolls and votes are not paper based.  Each ballot and / or voter is bar coded, which I would expect to be the same as a ticket to a concert or game.  You could print out a hundred, but the system is going to automatically be aware of a duplicate and could automatically reject any duplicate, or at least immediately flag the vote for determination of which is the correct vote.  I am holding a Utah ballot and envelope.   Each has a matching code and electronic  scannable marker.  If you're saying you could show up to vote in person while your paper ballot is in the mail, or a drop box, then of course that's possible, but I can't how see how the duplication won't be automatically noted and flagged as soon as it hits the database. 

At that point you'd follow rules - if one vote was fraudulent, the actual vote would count, and if both were submitted by the actual voter then there would be a rule [i.e. reasonable result could be having your vote cancelled for voting twice].  If they believe the signature doesn't matc, Utah (for instance) is supposed to contact the voter for clarification or to cure before rejecting the ballot.  So they could / should obviously be doing the same and flagging for possible fraud if there are 2 votes for the same voter.

[I don't mean this as partisan bickering - I'm not following how voters, linked to a database could successfully submit multiple votes. ] 
The signature, or the ability to forge one, is the only fail-safe in submitting a found ballot, but signatures have actually worked pretty well for a few hundred years.  If you're trying a commit voter fraud with people you know, knowing the signature you're trying to forge would at least give you a leg up, but trying to submit a ballot you've received at a dead address by guessing the signature probably isn't going to work.

The questions about the envelopes seem to answer themselves --- discarding the envelopes would be a problem, but since the envelope is bar coded and bears the signature, we could assume competence and that the envelopes are retained as are the ballots, at least until after final certification. 

So, if you vote in person, you will immediately be electronically logged.  If multiple paper ballots are submitted, either all votes for a voter will be rejected,  or the voter will affirm which vote is actual and which one is  fraudulent,

So I would only see being able to submit a fraudulent vote through the mail if the actual voter doesn't submit a vote, and you're able to successfully forge the match the signature which the election commission has on file.

Am I missing something?

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #207 on: November 06, 2020, 06:01:32 AM »
Because, of course...
Quote
Tucker Carlson: Media must take a step back from the election and let our system work

It's entirely possible that someday soon the news media will decide to shut this election down.

The sad thing is, I can actually imagine those watching him vehemently nodding their heads...

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #208 on: November 06, 2020, 06:04:00 AM »
Georgia is now in Biden's column, with thousands of mail in ballots left to count.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #209 on: November 06, 2020, 07:08:08 AM »
The Republicans sure seem to know a whole bunch about how these bogus votes could be cast in such large numbers.  It's almost like they have a game plan for doing that which allows them to see how the other side could do it. Transference maybe?

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #210 on: November 06, 2020, 08:00:10 AM »
If the Senate splits 50/50 VP Harris then becomes the deciding vote on many issues.  Is there a Senate Majority and Minority Leader at that time? Does it default to the Dems if Harris is VP?

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #211 on: November 06, 2020, 08:04:59 AM »
Y-22,

“Why? Because you believe Trump when he claims fraud and shows you no evidence.”

Dumb.

You're really channeling Trump now. Presented with your complete lack of evidence you result to insults.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #212 on: November 06, 2020, 08:08:45 AM »
Turning our gaze to North Carolina...

There's still about 5% of the vote outstanding, and if that vote is primarily uncounted mail in ballots, and assuming the mail in ballots in NC will behave somewhat like those in Pennsylvania and Georgia...

Mail in ballots in Pennsylvania have been breaking 75%/25% in favour of Biden.
In Georgia, the ratio is almost exactly the same - 74%/26% in favour of Biden.

With 95% of the votes tabulated in North Carolina, and with Trump leading Biden 2,732,120 to 2,655,383, Biden should easily overtake Trump and end up winning the state by about 1%.

The break even ratio where they end up tied would be 63.5%/36.5%.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #213 on: November 06, 2020, 08:11:30 AM »
I had mixed feelings about conservatism inheriting the impending economic disaster, especially given that the economy is where Trump has staked his legacy claim. As I assess tangential election fallout, I am actually quite sanguine, and look forward with optimism to the political realignment coming in 2024.

Yep, the democrats not taking back the senate is going to harm the economy severely. The minute Biden takes office McConnel is going to go into deficit reduction mode during a recession and make it worse.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #214 on: November 06, 2020, 08:17:23 AM »
In NC its potential outstanding ballots. They count everything that arrives through the 12th (pretty sure that's the right day) that is postmarked by election day. They are being conservative in the potential amount of outstanding vote in assuming they all get returned. Unless you start seeing those numbers move big and soon I think its reasonable to begin assuming a lot of those people chose not to vote absentee or aren't going to vote. NC is allowed to process and tabulate mail in ballots as they arrive so there wasn't a big backlog on election day for them to go through.

The outstanding ballots still matter for our local races in NC, there are some state wide races that are within about 10,000 votes but Trump and Tillis are very likely to maintain their leads.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #215 on: November 06, 2020, 08:28:55 AM »
It sounds like the Secret Service has now called it for Biden...

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #216 on: November 06, 2020, 08:32:00 AM »
It sounds like the Secret Service has now called it for Biden...

Or they recognize that Trump trying to light a powder keg and are worried some nut or group will take a shot at Biden.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #217 on: November 06, 2020, 08:38:49 AM »
Maybe - but they're not sending resources to guard Anthony Fauci, and he is scheduled to be beheaded...

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #218 on: November 06, 2020, 08:40:55 AM »
Arizona is down to 46,000 votes.
Georgia is down to 12,500 votes.
Pennsylvania is down to 34,000 votes.

Overnight things went a little more in Biden's favor.

Biden now leads:
Arizona by 47,000.
Georgia by 900.

Trump now leads:
Pennsylvania by 18,000.

There are enough votes left for Pennsylvania to go to Biden if he continues to win a high percentage of the outstanding vote. Arizona has enough votes outstanding to flip it but they aren't from areas that Trump is winning. Georgia is getting down to their last mail in ballots are are starting to go through provisional ballots now.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #219 on: November 06, 2020, 08:45:14 AM »
There are enough votes left for Pennsylvania to go to Biden if he continues to win a high percentage of the outstanding vote.

Actually, Biden only needs about 54% of the outstanding vote to take Pennsylvania... he's been getting about 75%

fizz

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #220 on: November 06, 2020, 08:54:58 AM »
In the last update, in Pennsylvania, now its +5594 for Biden

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #221 on: November 06, 2020, 09:04:52 AM »
If the Senate splits 50/50 VP Harris then becomes the deciding vote on many issues.  Is there a Senate Majority and Minority Leader at that time? Does it default to the Dems if Harris is VP?

Harris would cast the tiebreaking vote for Senate Majority leader as well.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #222 on: November 06, 2020, 09:06:11 AM »
 I think Trump knew he was going to loose and wanted the counting to stop so that he would not loose as bad, especially in the EC.  Biden may end up with at least 306 EC votes making his victory both EC and popular.

Now there are just the 2 seats in GA.  Will Trump turn up to help out the Republicans there? Or will he pout and short sheet the beds in the White House?

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #223 on: November 06, 2020, 09:08:59 AM »
Would she be up for the position of Majority Leader as President of the Senate?  I would think not.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #224 on: November 06, 2020, 09:10:45 AM »
I think Trump knew he was going to loose and wanted the counting to stop so that he would not loose as bad, especially in the EC.  Biden may end up with at least 306 EC votes making his victory both EC and popular.

Now there are just the 2 seats in GA.  Will Trump turn up to help out the Republicans there? Or will he pout and short sheet the beds in the White House?

Unfortunately I don't think it matters. With Biden winning I expect Republicans to turn up in large numbers to prevent a democratic sweep. There will also be a lot of independent minded voters in Georgia who like divided government and will support the Republican candidates. I'm guessing we're about to see the two most expensive run off elections in American history.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #225 on: November 06, 2020, 09:22:29 AM »
Would she be up for the position of Majority Leader as President of the Senate?  I would think not.

She is not a senator, so no. It would be interesting for her to become active as president of the senate, though the position holds little power.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #226 on: November 06, 2020, 09:22:58 AM »
This is the point in the cycle where a normal candidate would call his opponent and concede, from a purely numerical perspective.  It's been clear to his team since Wednesday that the votes would give Biden Pennsylvania, Nevada and Arizona, and possibly Georgia as well.  But until Biden was actually leading, there was no chance of a concession.

But is there any chance of that happening?  It seems like his re-election team is all in on trying to win via... magic.  He's going to have to get at least 3 separate state houses to turn on their own voters.  And there's simply no appetite for that in Pennsylvania for sure, and I just don't see it in Arizona either. Michigan? Uh, no.  Georgia? 

The only question is what will he do for the next 2.5 months.  Hopefully, he'll be too distracted with the election to set the country on fire any more than his electoral temper tantrum is doing already.

Grant

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #227 on: November 06, 2020, 09:27:34 AM »
I think Trump knew he was going to loose and wanted the counting to stop so that he would not loose as bad, especially in the EC.  Biden may end up with at least 306 EC votes making his victory both EC and popular.

Now there are just the 2 seats in GA.  Will Trump turn up to help out the Republicans there? Or will he pout and short sheet the beds in the White House?

Jeez.  Trump lost in Georgia.  Why would they want him to show up and remind people that they are connected with him?  It's more likely that with Trump gone, Democrat turnout will drop because L'etron Orange has been vanquished.  The GOP is about to make Georgia "the last best hope for mankind" in their ads.  Their desperation and fear will be motivation enough. 

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #228 on: November 06, 2020, 09:32:33 AM »
All the relevant states are still close enough I don't blame Trump for not conceding today. I think Pennsylvania is only likely to become more solidly for Biden as the last 2-3% of the vote is tallied. Arizona seems likely to continue on without a big shift in the margin. Georgia could still change with provisional, military, and the last few ballots being counted. Nevada seems unlikely to change as well but its close enough I don't blame Trump for not conceding it.

What I hope is that a week from today when state election commissions certify their results showing Biden won that Trump will concede and exit the stage gracefully. But that's a pipe dream. Trump will file as many frivolous lawsuits as he can. Trump will sow discord and division across the nation. The only real question is if he will leave the white house willingly or if the secret service will have to "escort" him off the grounds back to Mara-Lago.

Grant

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #229 on: November 06, 2020, 09:45:42 AM »
The only real question is if he will leave the white house willingly or if the secret service will have to "escort" him off the grounds back to Mara-Lago.

Cocaine Mitch, The Swamp-Thing, will rise out of the swamp and he and John Thune are going to drag Trump back to Margo Lago and then blow it up, carrying Heather Locklear to safety. 

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #230 on: November 06, 2020, 09:53:21 AM »
yoss, you're looking at the colour on the map, and not the outstanding votes.  There's a reason Fox News (!) called Arizona.  The other MSM cannot because they are afraid of being labelled as in the Dems' pocket, but the numbers behind the colours don't show Arizona in play.  The same is true in Georgia, where Biden is up by 1100 and where that margin will continue increasing until all the mail in ballots have been counted.  There are still ~8,000 mail in ballots left to count in GA, the majority from Gwinnett county.  Biden's lead is going to expand by 4,000 before that count is done.  Provisional and as yet to be received military (military was polled as favouring Biden anyway) simply won't cut into that margin.

The Trump team also knows this.


yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #231 on: November 06, 2020, 10:03:03 AM »
yoss, you're looking at the colour on the map, and not the outstanding votes.  There's a reason Fox News (!) called Arizona.  The other MSM cannot because they are afraid of being labelled as in the Dems' pocket, but the numbers behind the colours don't show Arizona in play.  The same is true in Georgia, where Biden is up by 1100 and where that margin will continue increasing until all the mail in ballots have been counted.  There are still ~8,000 mail in ballots left to count in GA, the majority from Gwinnett county.  Biden's lead is going to expand by 4,000 before that count is done.  Provisional and as yet to be received military (military was polled as favouring Biden anyway) simply won't cut into that margin.

The Trump team also knows this.

I generally look at the AP map which also has Arizona called for Biden. I'm just being cautious. I am reasonably confident that Biden wins Arizona, Nevada, and Penn. But I can understand not conceding a race until those vote tallies are complete. Georgia is likely to go Biden but any margin under 5k is tenuous.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #232 on: November 06, 2020, 10:13:43 AM »
Vote tallies are almost never complete at the time the losing candidate concedes :)

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #233 on: November 06, 2020, 10:52:49 AM »
Vote tallies are almost never complete at the time the losing candidate concedes :)

I agree, but if the tallies were slightly in the other direction I wouldn't want Biden to concede yet either. The votes across several key states are close enough that I think its reasonable for both sides to wait until the first unofficial totals are announced by election officials or until the margins are larger.

What isn't acceptable is Trump throwing a temper tantrum and claiming the election is being stolen from him because ballots are being counted as prescribed by the relevant laws in their jurisdictions. Just more evidence of how dangerous Trump is for our country and democracy.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #234 on: November 06, 2020, 10:55:32 AM »
Requesting proper recounts in close races is much more common than preemptive concession.

NobleHunter

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #235 on: November 06, 2020, 11:04:35 AM »
Apparently Trump or the GOP will need to pay for a recount in WI. Given the issues they had paying for buses, I'd require them to pay in advance.

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #236 on: November 06, 2020, 11:40:01 AM »
Would she be up for the position of Majority Leader as President of the Senate?  I would think not.

She presides over the Senate as the VP, being the Majority Leader is technically a demotion. Although fuctionally Majority Leader is the more powerful position.

That and I'm pretty sure Senate bylaws require the Majority Leader to actually be a Senator. Meanwhile, anyone can be Speaker of the House, they've simply never elected anyone into that position who wasn't already elected into the House of Representatives.

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #237 on: November 06, 2020, 11:43:03 AM »
I think Trump knew he was going to loose and wanted the counting to stop so that he would not loose as bad, especially in the EC.  Biden may end up with at least 306 EC votes making his victory both EC and popular.

Now there are just the 2 seats in GA.  Will Trump turn up to help out the Republicans there? Or will he pout and short sheet the beds in the White House?

Unfortunately I don't think it matters. With Biden winning I expect Republicans to turn up in large numbers to prevent a democratic sweep. There will also be a lot of independent minded voters in Georgia who like divided government and will support the Republican candidates. I'm guessing we're about to see the two most expensive run off elections in American history.

And as I pointed out earlier, a substantial portion of Biden's support this cycle (up to 30% according to some exit polling data from CNN) came in the form of anti-Trump rather than Pro-Biden/Democrat.

If Trump isn't going to be PotUS for much longer, then the anti-Trump contingent has no reason to vote in the Senate run-off election as the outcome of that election has no meaningful bearing on Trump's ability to potentially govern.

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #238 on: November 06, 2020, 11:51:40 AM »
Vote tallies are almost never complete at the time the losing candidate concedes :)

That's become it almost never happens that an elections outcome hinges on a single percentage point with of voters in a given polling area.

And in this case, it's happening in multiple locations nationally.

In tight races, it isn't unheard of for the concession to happen months after the winner was to assume office. Although in the case of the US Presidential Election process, it doesn't actually require concession on the part of either party involved. Congress is going to decide the winner, and once that happens, the show is over. And with the Democrats holding a majority in the House and in the combined session, even if they don't control the Senate, there is no reason to suspect that Congress is going to try to manipulate the EC votes in any way... Or that they're going to be given the ability to do so in any case(States sending two different sets of electoral results).

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #239 on: November 06, 2020, 11:55:22 AM »
What isn't acceptable is Trump throwing a temper tantrum and claiming the election is being stolen from him because ballots are being counted as prescribed by the relevant laws in their jurisdictions. Just more evidence of how dangerous Trump is for our country and democracy.

Of note here: The eyerolling that the Republicans and Conservatives are doing in response to that should tell you all you need to know about how much of a threat that isn't.

Yes, he has "his base" that is rabid enough to eat that up, but they're not enough to be decisive in any meaningful way.

Now the actual examples of fraud he's coming up with, that's different. But you'd be correct about simply counting ballots which were properly received not being fraud.

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #240 on: November 06, 2020, 11:57:10 AM »
Apparently Trump or the GOP will need to pay for a recount in WI. Given the issues they had paying for buses, I'd require them to pay in advance.

They didn't have a problem paying for the buses. They had a problem with getting the buses through all of the traffic that happened after the event concluded. Poor traffic management planning != poor financials.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #241 on: November 06, 2020, 11:57:49 AM »
Arizona is down to 46,000 votes.
Georgia is down to 12,500 votes.
Pennsylvania is down to 34,000 votes.

Overnight things went a little more in Biden's favor.

Biden now leads:
Arizona by 47,000.
Georgia by 900.

Trump now leads:
Pennsylvania by 18,000.

There are enough votes left for Pennsylvania to go to Biden if he continues to win a high percentage of the outstanding vote. Arizona has enough votes outstanding to flip it but they aren't from areas that Trump is winning. Georgia is getting down to their last mail in ballots are are starting to go through provisional ballots now.

Latest updates in:
Biden leads
Nevada: 22,000 (+10,000 change from yesterday)
Arizona: 44,000 (-3,000 from the morning)
Georgia: 1,500  (+600 from morning)
Penn    : 9,000  (+27,000 from morning)

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #242 on: November 06, 2020, 12:00:04 PM »
What isn't acceptable is Trump throwing a temper tantrum and claiming the election is being stolen from him because ballots are being counted as prescribed by the relevant laws in their jurisdictions. Just more evidence of how dangerous Trump is for our country and democracy.

Of note here: The eyerolling that the Republicans and Conservatives are doing in response to that should tell you all you need to know about how much of a threat that isn't.

Yes, he has "his base" that is rabid enough to eat that up, but they're not enough to be decisive in any meaningful way.

Now the actual examples of fraud he's coming up with, that's different. But you'd be correct about simply counting ballots which were properly received not being fraud.

I would prefer to see more Republicans come out like Hogan and Romney with something stronger than an eyeroll to throw a wet blanket on Trump's conspiracy theories about the vote being stolen.

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #243 on: November 06, 2020, 12:15:29 PM »
I would prefer to see more Republicans come out like Hogan and Romney with something stronger than an eyeroll to throw a wet blanket on Trump's conspiracy theories about the vote being stolen.

Romney is likely trying to set himself up for a possible 2024 Presidential run, although that could be a big maybe, given he'll be 77 by then. Depending on how Biden's term of office (as he's about to turn 78 this month) turns out, there just may not be an appetite for electing another old guy who could fall to strokes or dementia while in office. (His parents living to be 88 and 89 tends to suggest he could at least live long enough to serve two terms in office though)

IF Biden is on the Ballot, I wouldn't be surprised to see Romney participate in the Primaries at the least. If Biden isn't on the ballot, Romney will likely sit it out. But based on 2012, Romney's ability to beat Biden is a big maybe in my book.

Better to field a younger candidate that can show more vigor and dynamicism. Romney's too much of a stuffed suit, and by 2024 he's going to be an old stuffed suit.

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #244 on: November 06, 2020, 12:27:50 PM »
What isn't acceptable is Trump throwing a temper tantrum and claiming the election is being stolen from him because ballots are being counted as prescribed by the relevant laws in their jurisdictions. Just more evidence of how dangerous Trump is for our country and democracy.

Of note here: The eyerolling that the Republicans and Conservatives are doing in response to that should tell you all you need to know about how much of a threat that isn't.

Yes, he has "his base" that is rabid enough to eat that up, but they're not enough to be decisive in any meaningful way.

Now the actual examples of fraud he's coming up with, that's different. But you'd be correct about simply counting ballots which were properly received not being fraud.

Is a mistake to think that 'His base' isn't the republican base and not decisive enough in a meaningful way
If this election proves anything it shows that almost half of the country believes and lives in the reality as painted by Trump/Fox.
For those not speaking out silence (eye role) is acceptance
- the snake and fox are in the hen house.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 12:35:52 PM by rightleft22 »

DJQuag

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #245 on: November 06, 2020, 12:42:14 PM »
It sounds like the Secret Service has now called it for Biden...

Or they take into account the general atmosphere when allocating their resources.

There are crazies on both sides, yes, but it's the Trump figurehead actively creating a narrative of democracy being overturned via cheating and corruption. There's only one side desperately throwing out sparks that could set off a zealot bonfire and it's not only brown people who are able to get into the mindset that it's okay if they die so long as they take out some of the Enemy.


That being said if Biden and his camp possess half a brain they will have employed a legion of private security long before now for precisely this reason.

TheDeamon

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #246 on: November 06, 2020, 12:49:21 PM »
"Trump's Base" loves Trump. They have no problem with how he says and does things.

Republicans and Conservatives on the other hand? They might love a number of things he did, but they hate or even loathe many of the things he has said, and take issue with how he has done them. But in this era of "take no prisoners politics" nuance is lost, and especially with Trump, speaking out against him on anything means losing the ability to work with him on anything. So it's easier to simply not avoid saying anything.

Even without Trump being Trump, the media loves to use those "nuance points" to slam wedges into them and hammer away at them. Or did you not notice how very few(none) Democrats were willing to cross the aisle even on things that the Republicans/Trump were correct about if it was deemed a "partisan issue" by their activist base?

Hopefully Biden allows up have at least a brief respite from the hyper-partisanship, but I'm not holding my breath. The TDS crowd is reading things into this election that simply aren't there, and if they spend the next 2 years operating from that mindset, they're going to be reliving 2010 all over again in 2022, only it's likely to be an even bigger blow-out. Which should make 2024 even more amusing as they'll likely take 2022 to mean "it's ever worse than we thought!"

DJQuag

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #247 on: November 06, 2020, 01:27:00 PM »
I think the main difference between this year and 16 is that the voters in 20 had had four years of Trump in action to consider.

Clinton in 16 was an underwhelming candidate, neck deep in the swamp. So is Biden. Except this year enough people had seen Trump's true colors and went the other way.

The social democratic vote is still underestimated because the beuracracy in both parties are terrified of it, but if the right message is put forth to vote *for* something instead of *against* something in Georgia it'll be a tighter campaign then some think.

DonaldD

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #248 on: November 06, 2020, 01:34:58 PM »
The Republicans were calling for Gore to concede when Florida had a margin of fewer than 600 votes.

But my point had more to do with the mail in numbers that everybody knew were on the way.  Georgia is not close anymore, with no path left for Trump. Pennsylvania is going to go to Biden by 2-3%.  Fox has already called Arizona.  Biden already has an extra state in the bag and doesn't even need Nevada, where he is also leading.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #249 on: November 06, 2020, 01:55:07 PM »
The Republicans were calling for Gore to concede when Florida had a margin of fewer than 600 votes.

But my point had more to do with the mail in numbers that everybody knew were on the way.  Georgia is not close anymore, with no path left for Trump. Pennsylvania is going to go to Biden by 2-3%.  Fox has already called Arizona.  Biden already has an extra state in the bag and doesn't even need Nevada, where he is also leading.

Republicans were wrong in 2000. I'm willing to be patient, just wish Trump was saying we want every vote counted and we'll see who wins instead of his stupid I won and its being stolen bombast.

Georgia is close but highly unlikely to flip back. Penn is the still the clincher. Biden seems to be adding to his lead by about 1,000 votes per hour. Once the election officials in Penn finish updating totals tonight showing Biden leading by 20k+ votes I think a concession should be expected. Trump isn't normal and I don't expect him to ever admit defeat. I think he will be pursuing lawsuits and claiming fraud with no evidence for the next few weeks, months, and maybe years. It will be extremely detrimental to the country but Trump isn't going to care. I'm happy with the outcome of the election, I wish it had been a blowout so there wouldn't be any room for controversy but I'm very glad it looks like the election isn't going to be hinging on a single state. I think the map isn't changing again and Biden wins with 306 electoral college votes and in the popular vote 4.5 million more votes than Trump.

We'll see if there is anything Biden can do to help unite the country with Trump spending the next month whipping his supporters into a frenzy over voter fraud conspiracy theories. Maybe Biden can offer Trump and his family a pardon to get Trump to quit fanning the flames. Because the only thing that will get Trump to quit acting like a jackass and ripping the country apart would be to offer him something that personally benefits himself.