Author Topic: DNC on twitter: 4th of July Celebrations glorify white supremacy.. Wait *delete*  (Read 116 times)

TheDeamon

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https://news.yahoo.com/dnc-claims-trump-glorifying-white-132944526.html

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In a since-deleted tweet, the Democratic National Committee accused President Trump of “holding a rally glorifying white supremacy” by attending the fireworks display at Mount Rushmore on Independence Day.

“Trump has disrespected Native communities time and again. He’s attempted to limit their voting rights and blocked critical pandemic relief. Now he’s holding a rally glorifying white supremacy at Mount Rushmore — a region once sacred to tribal communities,” the DNC tweeted early Tuesday morning. The tweet linked to a story by The Guardian, which reported that some Native American groups are planning protests at Mount Rushmore in response to Trump’s expected attendance on July 3.

An archive of the tweet can be found here:
https://archive.is/ows8u

Fenring

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I'll wait to hear more before commenting with my opinion - is this verified?

DonaldD

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I have no doubt it's true, and that somebody in the communication team thought it was a good idea... until it became really obvious that it wasn't.

Kasandra

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I have no doubt it's true, and that somebody in the communication team thought it was a good idea... until it became really obvious that it wasn't.

It's my understanding that the 4 monument faces will be wearing masks.  They may not need them, but What do they have to lose?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 08:01:40 AM by Kasandra »



DonaldD

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So, is it time to reconsider the global legacy of July 4, and did USA independence help further colonialism and white supremacy? That does seem to be the debate raging through the USA at them moment.  What is your analysis, TheDaemon?  And what do you think about what those black communities referenced in the BBC who are stating that the 4th of July doesn't mean the same thing to them as it does to those who celebrate unquestioningly?

TheDeamon

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So, is it time to reconsider the global legacy of July 4, and did USA independence help further colonialism and white supremacy? That does seem to be the debate raging through the USA at them moment.  What is your analysis, TheDaemon?  And what do you think about what those black communities referenced in the BBC who are stating that the 4th of July doesn't mean the same thing to them as it does to those who celebrate unquestioningly?

You're not American, so you've probably never "properly experienced" a 4th of July celebration. An attack on the 4th of July is an attack on the Declaration of Independence itself, not an attack on Whites, or an attack on the United States itself, or an attack on the people who wrote the document. (And in several cases, their own comments on the subject of Slavery at or near the time -- they weren't happy about Slavery either, even then. Which was way ahead of their time, yes they fell short of where we, and they, would have liked, but they did the best they could.)

Any "Black Community" that feels the 4th "doesn't mean the same thing to them" are quite  frankly idiots and don't know enough about history, or the Declaration of Independence and its drafting. The United States may have the dubious distinction of being one of the last western nations to end the practice of Slavery within its borders, but the United States is also only second to the United Kingdom in its role in helping end the commercial international slave trade, and the resulting consequence of making the practice too expensive for many nations to sustain.
https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/exhibits/anti-slave-trade-patrols.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Africa

I know deconstructionism is in vogue and all of that, but sorry. If you have a gripe with the Declaration of Independence, you're either Native American(who do have grounds for legitimate gripes, but only up to a point), uninformed, or you're someone that has no business in the United States without respect to what your skin color, or history is.

It also is a very interesting, alternate history question to ask, "What does the world look like if the Declaration of Independence was never written?"

The Americans likely fail to rally the French to their cause. The French Revolution either never happens(some could argue that a plus) or takes a very different form. Numerous other European colonies in the Americas don't gain independence on the same timeline, as they now lack both the American Monroe Doctrine, or the British Empire tacitly supporting said doctrine because it suited their own trade interests of the time(as the American Revolution soured them on the whole colonialism thing, they weren't about to try conquering somebody else's rebellious colony).

But the changed course for France also means a changed course in the Americas. Haiti's history changes, their slave revolt likely sees a very different outcome. The fate of the Louisiana Territory becomes much less certain as it continues to bounce between Spain, France, and possibly eventually Britain.

Britain's outlook on Slavery probably changes as well, rather than banning it in 1807(Which incidentally, also coincides with when the United States declared the importation of Slaves to be an Act of Piracy), it probably takes a fair bit longer. While the Brits may be reticent to admit it, the Declaration of Independence did influence thinking in Britain as it relates to Civil Rights.

The ripples just continue to extend out from there. Without the United States providing the example of how a colony can rebel, assume an independent role or at least the appearance of it(such as the US ignoring the Monroe Doctrine when it came to the British interdicting slave ships heading to Brazil), fewer colonies are "inspired" to rebel, and even fewer manage to be either as stable, or free, as they were, as there was no "American template" for them to draw from. Which means they would instead be emulating European monarchies instead more likely than not.

Kasandra

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You're not American, so you've probably never "properly experienced" a 4th of July celebration. An attack on the 4th of July is an attack on the Declaration of Independence itself, not an attack on Whites, or an attack on the United States itself, or an attack on the people who wrote the document. (And in several cases, their own comments on the subject of Slavery at or near the time -- they weren't happy about Slavery either, even then. Which was way ahead of their time, yes they fell short of where we, and they, would have liked, but they did the best they could.)

Any "Black Community" that feels the 4th "doesn't mean the same thing to them" are quite  frankly idiots and don't know enough about history, or the Declaration of Independence and its drafting. The United States may have the dubious distinction of being one of the last western nations to end the practice of Slavery within its borders, but the United States is also only second to the United Kingdom in its role in helping end the commercial international slave trade, and the resulting consequence of making the practice too expensive for many nations to sustain.

Wow, just wow.  You're not as openly one-sided as wmLambert and Crunch are, but this comment is the sort of thing I would expect them to say.  I am an American, and I resent your attitude that others who have suffered the insults and crimes committed by our government and society over the past 400 years should somehow have the same burnished pride that you have.  I am totally disappointed.

TheDeamon

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You're not American, so you've probably never "properly experienced" a 4th of July celebration. An attack on the 4th of July is an attack on the Declaration of Independence itself, not an attack on Whites, or an attack on the United States itself, or an attack on the people who wrote the document. (And in several cases, their own comments on the subject of Slavery at or near the time -- they weren't happy about Slavery either, even then. Which was way ahead of their time, yes they fell short of where we, and they, would have liked, but they did the best they could.)

Any "Black Community" that feels the 4th "doesn't mean the same thing to them" are quite  frankly idiots and don't know enough about history, or the Declaration of Independence and its drafting. The United States may have the dubious distinction of being one of the last western nations to end the practice of Slavery within its borders, but the United States is also only second to the United Kingdom in its role in helping end the commercial international slave trade, and the resulting consequence of making the practice too expensive for many nations to sustain.

Wow, just wow.  You're not as openly one-sided as wmLambert and Crunch are, but this comment is the sort of thing I would expect them to say.  I am an American, and I resent your attitude that others who have suffered the insults and crimes committed by our government and society over the past 400 years should somehow have the same burnished pride that you have.  I am totally disappointed.

Hello, Mormon here. I have ancestors who experienced the mob activities in both Ohio and Missouri, which meant they also had the subsequent experience of also being chased out of Nauvoo, Illinois, and being placed under Military Rule under Lincoln, and the numerous other anti-Mormon acts that were pursued. I am within a handful of removes from Mormon Missionaries who had plenty of harrowing stories about doing missionary work in the Deep South as a Mormon prior to the 1960's and the CRA.

If that's not enough, I also have ancestors who immigrated into the United States between 1867 and 1875 as Catholics from Eastern Europe. So I get another shot of discrimination I could point to.

The United States is a different thing in a lot of respects from its founding document the Declaration of Independence. You can take issue with US History all you want, we certainly have plenty of negative marks against us. But on the 4th of July, the centerpiece is the Declaration of Independence, not the United States.

And I'll stand by the previous statement. If you have a problem with "All men are created equal"(Or the more modern gender neutral form of it), then I have a problem with you, and you have questionable business in the USA.

If you have problem with "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Then the same applies to you as before.

If you cannot grasp and agree with "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" then we are at fundamental odds with one another.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." Is a bigger one to unpack, but again, if you take issue with the idea as presented, then we have a problem.

This part here is conservative mantra 101:
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

Oddly:
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." Seems to be the assertion of activist groups right now. But the very document which was one of the first documents to elucidate such ideas as they're alleging to "honor" is the very same document they're attacking? That does not compute.

Of course, many, even among their own number, would dispute their having been placed under "absolute Despotism" under the system as it currently exists. Although can certainly be counter claimed that many so called "Social Justice Warriors" are in fact seeking to become despots themselves, their way or the highway. In which case the DoI stands as a stark witness against them, which makes it no small wonder they'd be trying to discredit the document. And again, another reason to take strong issue with the people conducting such assaults on said document.
« Last Edit: Today at 12:19:55 PM by TheDeamon »

TheDeamon

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You're not American, so you've probably never "properly experienced" a 4th of July celebration. An attack on the 4th of July is an attack on the Declaration of Independence itself, not an attack on Whites, or an attack on the United States itself, or an attack on the people who wrote the document.

Wow, just wow.  You're not as openly one-sided as wmLambert and Crunch are, but this comment is the sort of thing I would expect them to say.  I am an American, and I resent your attitude that others who have suffered the insults and crimes committed by our government and society over the past 400 years should somehow have the same burnished pride that you have.  I am totally disappointed.

I decided to circle back to this in case you keyed to the "You're not American" part rather than the rest. People who have no, or minimal experience with a particular celebration that is unique to a specific culture group not their own rarely get "all the details" about what those events are about.

I'm not going to hazard a guess at observances of Guy Fawkes Day/Night for example, it's simply not a thing in most of the US, even if it predates the American Revolution by 170 years.

The 4th of July also includes celebrations and commemorations for veterans, pow/mia, and in many cases celebration of the Constitution as well. But at its core, the 4th of July remains a celebration of what happened on the 4th of July, 1776. The Declaration of independence, as everything else followed from that. So I will hold very firm to the idea that an assault on the 4th of July is an assault on the Declaration of Independence, not the ancillary items that are often attached.