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Messages - Wayward Son

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General Comments / Re: How's that free market working out in Texas?
« on: March 05, 2021, 02:04:41 PM »
And the Texas Public Utilities Commission has signaled it won't try to reverse the $16 billion in overcharges because it's just too darned hard.

Commission Chairman Arthur C. D’Andrea said it was too difficult to reprice the energy markets and involved too many uncertainties.

“It is impossible to unscramble this sort of egg,” he said.

Mr. D’Andrea said there were so many hedges and private transactions outside the view of the commission that taking a step designed to help consumers might have unintended consequences. “You think you’re protecting the consumer and it turns out you’re bankrupting a co-op or a city,” he said.

I guess the co-opts already bankrupted don't count. :)

Besides, just imagine how much it would cost to try to untangle that web, for a mere $16 billion.  ::)

General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: March 03, 2021, 02:54:37 PM »
You know, cherry, you make it sound like the Corona virus is some new, exotic disease coming in from another country and poised to spread throughout the United States and kill who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people.

News flash:  we all ready have it.

In fact, we have one of the highest infection rates in the world, if not the highest (anymore).

You're afraid that some illegal immigrant might give you the virus?  How about the guy next door to you?  The woman behind you in the grocery checkout line?  The cashier at that store?  The people sitting next to you in the restaurant?  You got a thousand times better chance of catching it from them than from some poor slob who just came over the border trying to save his own neck from a horrible situation.  Heck, they should be more worried about catching it from good Americans like you!

The barn door's been open so long the horses are in the next county already.  Stop worrying about a few more cases coming over the border, adding maybe a faction of a percent to our total, and worry about how we are going to get those stupid people who don't believe in vaccines vaccinated, so herd immunity can properly kick in.  This is just a silly distraction because you don't have anything better to criticize Joe Biden about, since he's so much better than that previous clunk-head of a President was.  :P

General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: March 03, 2021, 02:05:41 PM »
Meanwhile, Macro Rubio shows where Republican priorities lie.

“I’m not going to get punked into voting for a bill that helps Pelosi bail out California, that helps Schumer bail out the predator Governor of New York.”

— Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), on Twitter, saying he’ll vote against President Joe Biden’s pandemic relief package.

He forgot to add, "And who gives a rat's patootie how many people suffer because of it!!!!"  ::)

General Comments / Re: Who will be next to speak out about Trump?
« on: March 03, 2021, 11:02:43 AM »
I know it's been a while, but I had to bring this thread back for....

Alex Jones!

“It’s the truth and I’m just going to say it. That I wish I never would have f*cking met Trump. I wish it never would have happened. And it’s not the attacks I’ve been through. I’m so sick of f*cking Donald Trump, man. God, I’m f*cking sick of him. And I’m not doing this because, like, I’m kissing his f*cking ass, you know. It’s, like, I’m sick of it.”

Of course, this was back in 2019, and the video was leaked rather than released, but it is insightful of how some of the rightwing demagogues really feel about the man they so lavishly praised.  ;D

General Comments / Re: How's that free market working out in Texas?
« on: March 02, 2021, 02:11:15 PM »

Pretty hard to call it gouging when the government signed off on the price hike, isn't it?

I think the guy who got a $17,000 monthly bill for electricity just might disagree.  ;D

General Comments / Re: Will Trump split the party at CPAC?
« on: March 01, 2021, 11:32:43 AM »
And just to add insult to injury (stupidity to embarrassment? bad luck to bad PR?), the CPAC stage resembled the Odal symbol used by some Nazi SS divisions during WWII.

Or, as Ilyse Hogue put it in the article: "And by "resembles," I mean "is identical to.""  ;D

General Comments / Re: impeachment defense clown car
« on: February 16, 2021, 03:40:23 PM »
Christians aren't perfect--just forgiven.  :D

Or, as Trump sees it, a license to sin.  ;D

General Comments / Re: impeachment defense clown car
« on: February 16, 2021, 02:46:38 PM »
Speaking of "demand loyalty," Electoral has a nice chart of the censures of the GOP senators who voted for Trump's impeachment:

[T]ake a look at the 10 Republican Representatives who voted to impeach Trump and the 7 Republican senators who voted to convict. Only three of the former and one of the latter have thus far completely avoided efforts to censure them (censuring organ, or potential censuring organ, in parentheses):

Member   Censured?
Rep. Liz Cheney (WY)            Yes (Wyoming GOP)
Rep. Anthony Gonzalez (OH)   No
Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (WA)   Yes (Washington GOP)
Rep. John Katko (NY)            No
Rep. Adam Kinzinger (IL)       Yes (La Salle County GOP Central Committee)
Rep. Peter Meijer (MI)           Yes (Calhoun County GOP)
Rep. Dan Newhouse (WA)      Yes (Washington GOP)
Rep. Tom Rice (SC)               Yes (South Carolina GOP)
Rep. Fred Upton (MI)             Yes (GOP of Cass and of Allegan Counties)
Rep. David Valadao (CA)        No
Sen. Richard Burr (NC)          Yes (North Carolina GOP)
Sen. Bill Cassidy (LA)            Yes (Louisiana GOP)
Sen. Susan Collins (ME)         Pending (Maine GOP)
Sen. Lisa Murkowski (AK)      No
Sen. Mitt Romney (UT)          Pending (Utah GOP)
Sen. Ben Sasse (NE)             Yes (Nebraska GOP)
Sen. Pat Toomey (PA)                   Yes (Westmoreland County GOP)

They even included a letter from 11 members of Adam Kinzinger's family to him:

They sent him a handwritten letter that the Representative released to The New York Times. It's fairly brief, and it's worth reading the whole thing, we think, so here is the text:


Oh my, what a disappointment you are to us and to God! We were once so proud of your accomplishments! Instead, you go against your Christian principals (sic) and join the "devil's army." (Democrats and the fake news media). How do you call yourself a Christian when you join the "devils army" believing in abortion! We thought you were "smart" enough to see how the left is brainwashing so many "so called good people" including yourself and many other GOP members. You have even fallen for their socialism ideals! So, so, sad!

President Trump is not perfect, but neither are you or any of us for that matter! It is not for us to judge or be judged! But he is a Christian! (If God can forgive and use King David in the Bible, He can do the same with President Trump.) Franklin Graham, Robert Jeffress, to just name a few, of many Pastors, who mentor President Trump, know that he is a believer! Obviously, you did not hear President Trump's "Christmas Message" to the American people (fake news media did not cover his message) where he actually gave the plan of salvation, instructing people how to repent and ask the Savior into their heart to be "Born Again"! (To believe in John 3:16). When was the last time you proclaimed your faith Adam? (Oh, we forgot you now belong to the "devils army."). You won't convince us otherwise with your horrible, rude accusations of President Trump! (To embrace a party that believes in abortion and socialism is the ultimate sin.) We should list even more grievances against you, but decided you ae (sic) not worth more of our time to list them. We have said enough!

You should be very proud that you have lost the respect of Lou Dobbs, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Greg Kelly, etc. and most importantly in our book, Mark Levin and Rush Limbaugh and us!

It is now most embarrassing to us that we are related to you. You have embarrassed the Kinzinger family name. We are not judging you. This letter is our opinion of you!

Oh, by the way, good luck in your fund raising (sic) endeavors. We are sure we know there are many others good GOP and Christian supporters, that feel the same way we do. Also very disappointed with the many other GOP have sided with the Democrats. (We should demand our money back!)

The following Kinzinger family members have asked that their names be added to this letter:


[names redacted]

P.S. For your information, many more family members, feel the same as we do. They just didn't have the courage to sign our letter or write their own letter! Not us, we are throughly (sic) disgusted with you!! And, oh by the way, we are calling for your removal from office! I have received numerous calls concerning your actions and egregious behavior towards our President of the United States, Donald J. Trump!

CC: Many conservative Republicans.

*President Trump has done more for the American people in four years, than you, the Rino's (sic), and Democrates (sic) have done in years!!
It's nice that Kinzinger's family isn't judging him (since that would be very wrong), they are just giving their opinion. It's also interesting to learn that the conservative media pecking order goes Limbaugh, Levin, and then everyone else. And who knew that Jesus, a man who said "Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back," (Luke 6:30) regarded socialism as a sin on par with abortion? Such theological insight!

In any event, one begins to understand why many Republicans (even those whose careers are ending, like Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio) held the line for The Donald. They could find themselves outcasts from the think tanks, the lobbying firms, and the media outlets they hope to land at. Their families could turn against them. They could be putting their very lives at risk; every one of the folks listed above has gotten death threats from angry Trump supporters. And we know full well that these people are armed, and are willing to use deadly force in defense of the Dear Leader.

Maybe things will cool down over the coming months, but right now, as far as a large number of Republicans go, you either support Trump in all ways and things, or you're a worthless RINO, or worse. :(

General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: February 11, 2021, 05:38:23 PM »
As the Good Book says, Faith is the belief in things not seen...

Which means you can have Faith in things that are simply untrue, as most of the religions in this world testify.  (After all, they can't all be right, especially those who preach that everyone else's is wrong.  ;D )  So while faith can be beneficial, especially in dire circumstances, it can be faith in nothing, and it should never be used as justification to constrain someone else's choices or to take someone else's life.

General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: February 11, 2021, 04:49:33 PM »
I think "knowledge" is not the right term to be discussing.  I think it should be "certainty."

You can know things without being certain of them.  I can know my neighbor is a jerk without being certain.  I can know that government is corrupt without being certain.  I can know Fords are lousy cars without being certain.

The problem today is that people can't differentiate between their knowledge and their certainty.  They think that, just because they know something is true, they are and should be certain that it is true.  So knowing that the election was stolen means that they are willing to die or kill for it.

But there are levels of certainty.  Things with lots of evidence--dynamite exploding, the sun rising each morning--have a very high degree of certainty.  Other things--my neighbor being a jerk, that every government official is corrupt--has a low degree of certainty, until there is enough evidence. 

When people start to believe that things that have a low degree of certainty--like the election being fraudulently stolen--have a high degree of certainty, then we get magical thinking, religious cults, extremism, and the like.  The problem is source like churches, Fox News, and cults like QAnon and flat earthers teach people that individual knowledge and believe should be considered highly certain.  It's that kind of stupid thinking that has lead us into this mess.

I'm not saying that this is anything new.  I'm sure you can find eras in history where it was much worse.  But it is getting worse, which is why we had an attack on the Capitol over a highly uncertain contention.

General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: February 08, 2021, 03:10:23 PM »
Does someone know where I can look at the video without downloading it onto my computer?

That doesn't seem to be a safe way to view it.

General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: February 03, 2021, 02:26:56 PM »
And it looks like Mike Lindell, the My Pillow Guy, is just begging for a piece of that lawsuit.  ;D

General Comments / Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« on: February 02, 2021, 06:07:52 PM »
And the penalty is "no more than" removal of eligibility hold federal office again.

Although the penalty of being convinced is removal from office, adding the penalty of barring Trump from ever holding office is easily added, and only needs a majority of the Senate to vote for it.

General Comments / Re: Unprecedented Attacks on Capitol Hill
« on: February 01, 2021, 01:26:34 PM »
So are you saying, Deamon, that because of a pipe bomb 38 years ago, because of a shooting in the Capitol from 67 years ago, and because of a caning incident from before the Civil War, we should not take the overrunning of the Capitol by hundreds of protesters which left 2 people killed (including one police officer), 3 others dead from lack of medical assistance, and at least 56 police officers injured (two who were hospitalized), as a "big deal?"  That it really isn't that unusual?

You realize that around half of Americans alive today weren't born when the pipe bomb went off; that most Americans weren't born when the shooting occurred; and that NO Americans alive today were born when the caning incident occurred.  ;D

We've had dark times before.  But no comparison with the darker times we had before makes this any lighter.  Nor does it make the attempted overthrow of the government less significant.

General Comments / Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« on: February 01, 2021, 10:00:42 AM »
There is one telling way to show how the Republican Party is crazier than the Democrats.

Who do the Republican punish?

Will it be Greene, who has uttered and agreed with outrageous claims that any sane American would turn away from, including agreeing with the execution of a coworker?

Or Cheney, who had the audacity to claim that Trump actually did something worth impeaching him for, which many Americans agree with?

If you had to choose, which do you think an inclusive party has more reason to censure?

Now point to who the Democrats try to punish, and who they should have punished.

It is already a bridge too far for dozens of Bush Administration officials, who have decided to leave the Republican Party.

General Comments / Re: The Party of personal responsibility?
« on: January 28, 2021, 05:02:43 PM »
This is the only reason I have not changed my official part registration with the voters office.  Is to try and help moderate candidates, if there are any, on future primaries.

Unfortunately, msquared, others have not.

More than 30,000 voters who had been registered members of the Republican Party have changed their voter registration in the weeks after a mob of pro-Trump supporters attacked the Capitol — an issue that led the House to impeach the former president for inciting the violence.

The massive wave of defections is a virtually unprecedented exodus that could spell trouble for a party that is trying to find its way after losing the presidential race and the Senate majority.

It could also represent the tip of a much larger iceberg: The 30,000 who have left the Republican Party reside in just a few states that report voter registration data, and information about voters switching between parties, on a weekly basis...

Nearly 10,000 Pennsylvania voters dropped out of the Republican Party in the first 25 days of the year, according to the secretary of state’s office. About a third of them, 3,476, have registered as Democrats; the remaining two-thirds opted to register with another party or without any party affiliation.

By contrast, about a third as many Pennsylvania Democrats opted to either join the Republican Party (2,093 through Monday) or to register with no party or a minor party (1,184).

Almost 6,000 North Carolina voters have dropped their affiliation with the GOP. Nearly 5,000 Arizona voters are no longer registered Republicans. The number of defectors in Colorado stands north of 4,500 in the last few weeks. And 2,300 Maryland Republicans are now either unaffiliated or registered with the Democratic Party...

Several local elections offices in Florida reported a surge in registration changes in the days after the assault on the Capitol. Two counties in the Miami area reported a combined 1,000 Republicans registering under other labels in just the two days after the Jan. 6 attack. In those same two days, only 96 Democrats switched parties.

Three counties in the Tampa Bay area reported more than 2,000 Republican voters registering under some other party’s banner. In those same three counties — Hillsborough, Pasco and Pinellas — just 306 Democrats switched their affiliations.

So many voters switching parties absent a pending deadline has piqued the interest of elections experts. Most people tend to stick with the party with which they initially register, and those who do change are usually motivated by a looming primary election.

“Usually, absent a primary election that would induce people to switch parties so that they could participate in that primary, you don’t see much activity in party registration,” said Michael McDonald, a voting and elections expert at the University of Florida.

Only a small handful of states report voter registration data on a weekly basis. Others report monthly activity, and many states do not report granular details about those who leave one party or the other. Once more states report party registration data, the true number of Republicans who have re-registered in recent weeks may prove to be much higher.

If the Republican Party doesn't get its act together, there will be tens of thousands more who will switch just before the next election.

General Comments / Re: Now you've done it
« on: January 22, 2021, 06:37:16 PM »
Freedom of speech has never meant freedom from consequence

Every time I hear someone say something like this I can't help but hear it as being pseudo-fascist. I know you are saying it in a neutral way, but in almost all contexts it is a dog whistle for "the law may allow it, but we are gonna mess you up." And in almost all cases it involves enforcing particular dogmas, not universally agreed upon standards (e.g. yelling fire in a theatre).

Of course, every time I hear a conservative defend the right of the Right to say whatever they want, it's a dog whistle for "I can say anything I want, but you should shut up, and I'm not responsible for the consequences."

Because the conversation usually goes along these lines.

Conservative: [Says something a Liberal finds stupid.]

Liberal: "That was stupid and bigoted."  (Sometimes goes on to show how it was stupid and bigoted.)

Conservative: "How dare you call me stupid and bigoted!  I have the right to free speech!"  (First says the other person doesn't have the right to criticize him, i.e. shouldn't use his right to Free Speech.  Then doesn't address how his words might have been stupid and bigoted, just uses Free Speech as an excuse to say whatever he wants.)

Liberal: "Your words inspired others to do stupid and bigoted things."

Conservative: "I have the right to Free Speech!  I can say whatever I want!" (Again, wants the other person not to exercise his right to Free Speech.  Then uses the Right to Free Speech as a way to not to take any responsibility for what he said and how it affected people, such as inspiring them to do violence.)

If you doubt this, consider Trump's last four years. :)

So while you see it as a dog whistle for mind control, I see your defense as a dog whistle for trying to make the other side to shut up and to evade responsibility for the results of your words.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 21, 2021, 06:30:54 PM »
Their state government denied access to all citizens from even getting a copy of their own long form birth certificates. Why did the state of Hawaii do that?

Because no one needed to see a long form.  Because the short form is the official birth certificate for all Hawaiians.  The long forms are archive records, completely reflected in the short forms.  There's no reason for anyone to look at them.

Only because some people refused to accept the short form was it necessary to release the long form--even after the state official attested to seeing it.  And even that did not help.  ::)

Our press still hasn't given us answers about it.

Gee, then how did I figure it out? ;)

When did the state of Hawaii change their rules regarding people having access to their own information?

Doubtlessly when they told everyone that the long form was no longer the legal birth certificate, and you don't need to see it anymore.  ;D

And you have his own publisher on his own bio which it's impossible to believe Obama himself didn't know about and choose not to correct saying he was born in Kenya.

Oh, wow.  Obama couldn't have possibly known that a publicity pamphlet had his birthplace wrong?  One that had a bunch of other writers listed on it?  You think he reviewed with a fine-toothed comb every piece of paper from his publisher about him?  If a booklet on authors of a publisher identified Trump as born in Canada, would you expect him to have to release his original birth certificate?  ;D

Obama still refuses to release his college records.

Neither has Trump, and we don't doubt he graduated.  Trump hasn't released his tax returns like to promised he would.  Obviously we can assume he's hiding something, right? ;)

When you refuse to be transparent you have no right to expect trust. If you had all of that kind of stuff going on with a white person they'd have gotten the same treatment as Obama. It was just a bunch of shady business and so of course that's going to lead people to be skeptical and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with racism.

And Trump was shadier and less transparent than Obama.  So where were all these people who thought, and some who still think, that Obama was born in Kenya when Trump was in office?  Why didn't we hear the same people calling for transparency in Trump's taxes, in answering subpoenas, in seeing Trump's finances to make sure he wasn't benefiting from being President?  Why did they trust Trump more than Obama?  Was it because Trump had the same color of skin as they?

There was more than enough proof that Obama was born in Hawaii, in spite of all the overblown "questions" and "lack of transparency" about it.  But people still believed he was hiding "the truth about his birthplace."  Why did they think the government of Hawaii, his relatives, and every official in the United States were conspiring to hide the supposed truth about him?  Why do some still believe that?  Why would they believe that about a person who looks like he was born in this country? 

Unless he doesn't look like he was born in America.  And what part of him looks like that?

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 21, 2021, 04:16:57 PM »
Conversely, I'm sure even racists understand that just because someone is black doesn't mean they were born in Africa. It almost seems like the people making the accusations that those questioning Obama's birthplace were often racists don't understand that it wasn't just because he was a black guy. I mean, if it had been Morgan Freeman or Denzel Washington or even Kanye West do people on the left really thing anyone would be saying oh those guys might not have been born in America because they are black? I feel sorry for the people who see a racist under every rock and behind every tree and in everything that happens in America.

The problem is not, cherry, that Obama was accused of being born in Kenya, and so not qualified to be President.  The problem is that long after it was proven that he was born in Hawaii--after his birth certificate was released, after his long-form birth certificate was released, and after his birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper at the time was pointed out--people still repeated the lie that he was born in Kenya.  I believe you voted for one such person, twice if I don't miss my guess.  ;)

Why would any large group of people continue to believe such an obvious lie long after it was disproven?  Do you think they'd believe that about McCain?  About Hillary?  About someone who looks like an average white American?

It's impossible to know for certain exactly why so many people were so stupid as to believe that obvious lie.  Was it purely political?  Was it because prominent people repeated the lie so often?  Or was it because Obama didn't look like a red-blooded white American?  It was probably all three.  But being black certainly helped perpetuate that vile lie long after it should have died in the popular culture.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 20, 2021, 08:35:13 PM »
Okay, so probably it won't be believed that racism wasn't behind the birther thing. All I can say is just imagine then if the birthplace was England instead of Kenya and the guy in question was completely white. Is the assertion really that if that was the case the birther people would have been just like, "Well the guy is white and it's England so that's okay then." Really? Because if people think that's what would have happened then I give up.

No, cherry, because if the guy was white and from England, the false accusation would have never gained any traction.  It would have been dismissed immediately, instead of still having a sizable group of people believing and repeating the lie.

Because what is so terrible about a white President?  I mean, it's called the White House for a reason, isn't it?  ;D

General Comments / Re: Who will be next to speak out about Trump?
« on: January 20, 2021, 08:31:44 PM »
And, as was inevitable from the beginning, some big supporters of Trump have disavowed him: The Proud Boys.

“As Mr. Trump departed the White House on Wednesday, the Proud Boys, once among his staunchest supporters, have also started leaving his side. In dozens of conversations on social media sites like Gab and Telegram, members of the group have begun calling Mr. Trump a ‘shill’ and ‘extraordinarily weak,’ according to messages reviewed by The New York Times. They have also urged supporters to stop attending rallies and protests held for Mr. Trump or the Republican Party.”

“On social media, Proud Boys participants have complained about his willingness to leave office and said his disavowal of the Capitol rampage was an act of betrayal. And Mr. Trump, cut off on Facebook and Twitter, has been unable to talk directly to them to soothe their concerns or issue new rallying cries.”

Trump pandered to those who worship strength, so it was inevitable that they would turn on him when he finally showed his utter weakness.  ;D

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 20, 2021, 12:20:39 PM »
Somehow I remember a member saying how everyone of Obamas actions being retroactively declared illegal once he was proven to be born in Kenya, as we all know he was, was being discussed during the Obama Presidency.  I recall nothing even remotely similar when Trump was elected, even if some declared he was not "my" President.

There seems to be a big difference there.

General Comments / Re: Now you've done it
« on: January 18, 2021, 07:27:38 PM »

General Comments / Re: Now you've done it
« on: January 15, 2021, 07:23:15 PM »
And remember the woman who tugged at his arm and tried to stop him?  Did see any of that at the Capitol.

General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: January 15, 2021, 06:31:44 PM »
Do you think the American Thinker will now publish an editorial on the culinary differences between chicken and crow? ;)  ;D

General Comments / Re: Now you've done it
« on: January 15, 2021, 06:20:09 PM »
It was not smashing windows to get to those government officials and possibly do them bodily harm...

General Comments / Re: Pre-planned Second Impeachment
« on: January 15, 2021, 05:16:07 PM »
This is the dirty little secret that William doesn't want to admit:

All the violent protesters are actually Antifa and BLM actors because all Trump supporters are actually Antifa and BLM actors.  Trump and those actors have driven away all the other Republicans, so now all that are left of his supporters are actors trying to bring him down. 

It's the perfect disguise!  ;) ;D

General Comments / Re: Now you've done it
« on: January 15, 2021, 01:26:23 PM »
Meanwhile, for anyone who thinks the Right doesn't have the people who would attack the Capitol and plan to cause mayhem, Amazon posted some of the post that led to them banning Parler.

*“Fry’em up. The whole fkn crew. #pelosi #aoc #thesquad #soros #gates #chuckschumer #hrc #obama #adamschiff #blm #antifa we are coming for you and you will know it.”

*“#JackDorsey ... you will die a bloody death alongside Mark Suckerturd [Zuckerberg].... It has been decided and plans are being put in place. Remember the photographs inside your home while you slept? Yes, that close. You will die a sudden death!”

*“We are going to fight in a civil War on Jan.20th, Form MILITIAS now and acquire targets.”

*“On January 20th we need to start systematicly [sic] assassinating [sic] #liberal leaders, liberal activists, #blm leaders and supporters, members of the #nba #nfl #mlb #nhl #mainstreammedia anchors and correspondents and #antifa. I already have a news worthy event planned.”

*“Shoot the police that protect these *censored*bag senators right in the head then make the senator grovel a bit before capping they ass.”

*“After the firing squads are done with the politicians the teachers are next.”

*“Death to @zuckerberg @realjeffbezos @jackdorsey @pichai.”

*“White people need to ignite their racial identity and rain down suffering and death like a hurricane upon zionists.”

*“Put a target on these motherless trash [Antifa] they aren’t human taking one out would be like stepping on a roach no different.”

*“We need to act like our forefathers did Kill [Black and Jewish people] all Leave no victims or survivors.”

*“We are coming with our list we know where you live we know who you are and we are coming for you and it starts on the 6th civil war... Lol if you will think it’s a joke... Enjoy your last few days you have.”

*“This bitch [Stacey Abrams] will be good target practice for our beginners.”

*“This cu** [United States Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao] should be... hung for betraying their country.”

*“Hang this mofo [Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger] today.”

*“HANG THAt N***** ASAP”

Can anyone blame us for not believing it had to be Antifa that lead the attack on the Capitol?  ::)

General Comments / Re: 4D chess endgame
« on: January 14, 2021, 07:21:46 PM »
Hey, I'm not against preventing fraud.  If Biden won by fraud, I would want Trump to be President. (Gakk!)  After all, Democrats and Liberals just spent four years living with Trump as President.

So if you can find a good way to prevent the fraud that has been found from occurring again, I'm all for it!
Just two things.

Just make sure it actually prevents actual fraud.  No "there's been a billion fraudulent mail-in ballots, so let's ban all mail-in ballots (except for old Republicans)" as some in the media have advocated.

And just make sure it doesn't disenfranchise more legitimate voters than it stops fraud.  Any proposal that keeps 10,000 legitimate votes from being cast in order to prevent 10 fraudulent votes is just an excuse to disenfranchise legitimate voters.  And you know which voters those will be!  ;)

I want fair and transparent elections.  But those saying Biden won by fraud are committing a fraud themselves, because there is no proof of significant fraud.  Certainly not enough to have swung the election.  To state otherwise is wishful thinking.

Heck, even your suggestion about the signatures needs a caveat.  If a signature is challenged, then the state must reach out to the voter and verify that is the voter's current signature or not.  Otherwise, it would just be an excuse to prevent legitimate votes at the observer's whim.

Prevent fraud, not votes.

General Comments / Re: Who will be next to speak out about Trump?
« on: January 14, 2021, 06:56:12 PM »
And lawyer/client privilege doubtlessly continues even after the lawyer is disbarred.  Otherwise it would be too easy to just disbar a lawyer and force him to tell everything. :(

General Comments / Re: 4D chess endgame
« on: January 14, 2021, 06:05:32 PM »
Well Wayward, that's what I've always believed about the left.  They don't care whether or not there was fraud, only whether it can be proven.

And you're proving what I've always believed about the Right.  That they don't care whether or not there was fraud, they just want to say there was.  So they don't care that there is no proof.  :P

General Comments / Re: 4D chess endgame
« on: January 14, 2021, 04:37:24 PM »
And are you still on the voter fraud thing?  Where is your proof of massive voter fraud?

Haven't you been paying attention lack of evidence of fraud just shows how pervasive and easy it is to get away with massive voting fraud. Its impossible to find, even with half a billion dollars in funds you can never find evidence of fraud. Its the perfect crime, the democrats are so efficient and good there isn't even any evidence there was a crime much less enough evidence to find someone guilty of it.  ::)

I keep remembering a scene from an old B&W movie I once saw.  A forgery expert is looking at some counterfeit bills, with a cop hanging over his shoulder.

Expert: It's almost perfect.

Cop: You mean it isn't perfect?

Expert: If it were perfect, it would be real.

At first I laughed, but when I thought about it, I realized how true it was.

If there is no way to tell the difference between a counterfeit and a real item, then the item is real.  That is the only conclusion you can have.  If there is nothing to distinguish it from the original--no extra or missing line, no duplicate serial numbers, no unissued serial number, no history, no paperwork, no flaw, no error--then for all extents and purposes, it's the real thing.

I feel the same way about the ballots.

If there is no way to distinguish counterfeit ballots from legitimate ones--no bad paperwork, no fictional people, no flaw, no error--then it is real.  You have to accept it as real.

So until someone can show the flaws, we have to accept them as real.

If it's perfect, it's real. :)

General Comments / Re: 4D chess endgame
« on: January 13, 2021, 06:47:38 PM »
I can hear Trump now, like the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

"OK, we'll call it a draw."  ;)

General Comments / Re: Now you've done it
« on: January 11, 2021, 06:56:07 PM »
The problem, TheDeamon, is that Trumpists and the Radical Right lie continuously.  So even if Democrats don't make new laws combating insurrection, the Trumpists will still say they did and rile up their base.

Don't tell Democrats what to do.  We have a moderate President.  (And don't tell the Trumpist lie that he's a radical Leftist, please!)  We will most likely have a moderate response.

Start telling the Republicans and Conservatives what to do to calm their Trumpists allies.  THAT is where the problem lies.

If the Republicans and Conservatives can't control them, there is nothing the Democrats can do. :(

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 10, 2021, 11:54:06 AM »

General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: January 09, 2021, 08:45:32 PM »
William, stop passing along false stories.  You only make yourself look ridiculous.

And if they really aren't false stories, made up with the intention of riling up people like you, show us the links so we can evaluate the evidence ourselves.

We've had four plus years of this BS.  Put up or shut up.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 08, 2021, 08:09:24 PM »
I'm speaking about the general principle here, why outside foreign interference with elections is worse than domestic, not about any particular interference.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 08, 2021, 06:40:21 PM »
If one of the parties does something to destabilize America, and we are subsequently invaded, everyone loses, including the parties.

If Russia does something to destabilize America, and we are subsequently invaded, Russian wins.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 08, 2021, 05:48:14 PM »
And regardless of whether it was technically illegal or not, such actions tried to suborn the outcome of the election through deceit.  So it is still much more than simply expressing an opinion about a foreign election.

Ok, then let's make a deal: if I agree with you on this, would you agree it should be effectively illegal for an American to make a public statement without stating their conflicts of interest upfront? For instance a talking head on TV or on Twitter should be required on their profile to write "paid lobbyist for X corp" or "sits on board of XYZ think tank"? If you'll agree then I will too. I am actually quite favorable to removing fake personas and unnamed allegiances in regards to political speech, so that messaging is transparently coming from who it's actually coming from, whether a private citizen or a foreign national. "I am a Russian citizen and think Hillary stinks" would be very upfront, as would "I work for Haliburton and think electric cars stink". I am game for both, what do you think? What I don't like is sneering at 'foreign' people who do things IMO not even nearly as bad as what local people do. It really pushes my buttons to get up in arms about Russia messing with us when the two parties are already messing with us.

I would not be opposed to making it illegal to make a public statement without stating conflicts of interest, although I would caution about making it too severe or burdensome.  Would holding stock in a mutual fund that is part of someone's 401K make the person part of Haiburton, for instance?

However, I would wholeheartedly agree to make it illegal to create a false persona or "sock puppet" to influence political opinion on a community or above scale.

I would say that what Russia did was worse than if it were done by an American, because at least the American would have to suffer the consequences of his actions, being a part of this country.  Russia would be immune to many of those consequences.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 08, 2021, 03:49:16 PM »
"Just outside the Capitol" != "Running around inside the building"

And someone still doesn't want to understand how an agent provocateur operates, at least when it goes against their interests. After all, that property destruction during the BLM riots was all done by violent right wing extremist groups right?

What would a right winger be doing participating in a left wing rally?

At what point have you seen any of us deny that right wingers were involved in what happened?

All that we've said is that we expect to find that members of AntiFa will be found to have been among the people involved in what happened on Tuesday. The majority will almost certainly have been Trump supporters.

So you're saying this was a riot of Trump supporters, with maybe some assistance and perhaps "egging on" by some people on the Left?  OK, I can agree to that.  As long as we agree that the main responsibility for this attempted sedition were the Trump supporters.

As opposed to those who have stated or implied that the responsibility lies with Antifa and/or BLM. (Not necessarily anyone on this board.)

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 08, 2021, 03:44:24 PM »
To WS, the illegitimate use of sock puppet accounts and astroturfing is certainly not good, you won't hear me defending that, but once again unlike South Korea or China we don't really have controls in a 'free society' to prevent someone making themselves look like someone else online unless it's outright identity theft, which is obviously illegal. But creating a fake persona online is to wit not illegal, and having it claim it's an American in order for its statements to sound more appealing is likewise annoying but not preventable unless we insist on social security #'s to use the internet like they do in some Asian countries.

Fenring, it may not be illegal to make a fake persona on the internet, but it is certainly illegal for a foreigner to make a fake persona with the intention of influencing the outcome of an American election.

And regardless of whether it was technically illegal or not, such actions tried to suborn the outcome of the election through deceit.  So it is still much more than simply expressing an opinion about a foreign election.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 08, 2021, 02:06:22 PM »

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 08, 2021, 02:03:48 PM »
Fenring, I would like to add that your depiction of Russian interference is incorrect.

Russians did not simply express their opinions on the internet.  They pretended and purported to be Americans.  They told lies while saying they were Americans.  They tried to get people to go to rallies, on both sides of an issue, at the same place and same time, to create conflict.

Their actions were deliberately and purposefully designed to sow discontent and chaos before the 2016 election.

If they had just expressed their opinions, I would have no problem with that.  But they did not.  They tried to sabotage our electoral process.

Don't make it sound like they didn't.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 08, 2021, 10:51:29 AM »
And for anyone who still thinks Antifa/BLM was behind the rioting and taking over the Capitol, here's a report that indicates it was planned at least a couple of weeks ago.

“We came up with the idea to occupy just outside the CAPITOL on Jan 6th,” leaders of the Stop the Steal movement wrote on Dec. 23. They called their Wednesday demonstration the Wild Protest, a name taken from a tweet by Trump that encouraged his supporters to take their grievances to the streets of Washington. “Will be wild,” the president tweeted.

Unless most of Trump's supporters are Antifa/BLM, then this was a Trumpist "event."  >:(

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 07, 2021, 10:42:22 AM »
And the initial results are in:

45% of Republican voters approved of the storming of the Capitol, with 43% opposing it.

Also, 52% of Republican voters think Joe Biden is a great deal or somewhat to blame for it.  ::)

I keep telling you: the Republican party is Trump's party.  The moral, values and reasoning of the old Republican party are gone. :(

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 06, 2021, 07:07:38 PM »
The New York Times reports that Trump didn't even call out the National Guard.  It was Pence.

Defense and administration officials said it was Vice President Mike Pence, not President Trump, who approved the order to deploy the D.C. National Guard. It was unclear why the president, who incited his supporters to storm the Capitol and who is still the commander in chief, did not give the order. One administration official suggested that the president did not want to be seen calling out the National Guard against his own supporters.

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 06, 2021, 04:21:46 PM »
As Chad Wolf said, they are called "violent anarchists."

At least that was the term he used for those who destroyed government property before. ;)

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 06, 2021, 04:00:32 PM »
Where are the Trump tweets calling for these people to stop?  What is taking him so long? Why has he not condemned this?

Hey, he asked them nicely to be peaceful.  What moe can he do?  ;)

General Comments / Re: Pencemegeddon
« on: January 06, 2021, 03:49:01 PM »
Now they are breaking windows inside Congress.

When antifa broke windows and defaced Federal buildings, what kind of crime did some people here call it?  ;)

General Comments / Re: What to do with actual election fraud?
« on: January 05, 2021, 05:49:17 PM »

Please call it Trumpism.

Sorry, msquared, but it's Republicanism.

I direct you to the Republican Party platform for the 2020 election as proof, which made Donald J. Trump the official spokesman and definer of what Republicanism is.  The Republican party agreed to this platform, so all Republicans should take responsibility for it.

If it's not your platform, it's not your party. ;)

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