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Messages - yossarian22c

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1
General Comments / Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« on: January 10, 2022, 09:59:45 AM »
Let's say hypothetically we're in a third world country and there really is massive voter fraud going on and an election is actually stolen.

Let's say hypothetically that Trump is a wanna be dictator trying to destroy American democracy. Not so hypothetical, he is doing just that. What's the appropriate response?

2
General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: January 10, 2022, 09:27:35 AM »
And audits? What's to audit? The Democrats didn't make accusations of voter fraud. The accusation was that the election was stolen by Facebook ads Russia paid for that influenced people to vote against Hillary. The election was stolen by a picture of the devil and Jesus arm wrestling and Hillary being made out to be on the side of the devil. The election was stolen by Russia doing in our elections what our government has done in elections all over the world, trying to influence them. And we collude with one side or another too, sometimes probably even multiple parties at the same time. Obama himself publicly attempted to influence elections in both Israel and Britain. There's video proof of it. And no Democrat had any problem with that. There isn't even an international law that says people of one country aren't allowed to express a public opinion through advertisements or other ways about elections in another country. The whole idea was preposterous but the Democrats used it anyway, feeble and weak as it was, to undermine our election process and the duly elected President, to accuse him of stealing the election. And they're still proud of it too. No regrets, no remorse, but of course not much mentioning of it anymore either because now that they won it's no longer acceptable to question elections. In fact, now it's treason.

There are American laws against what the Russians did. Did Trump's sons or campaign manager discuss it when they were meeting with Russian lawyers, we'll never really know. We know Trump gave a press conference and asked Russia to release hacked Clinton emails. We know the Russian bots largely favored Trump and divisiveness. We know Russia spent some money on facebook ads in swing states. Did it sway the election? Probably not, but Trump won by about 250k votes spread over 5 states so its hard to say. We know people in the Trump orbit shared polling data with Russians and we know Roger Stone was trying to work a back door between the Trump campaign, Russian hackers, and wikileaks to get the most bang out of the hacked DNC emails.

Democrats were mad about all those things but he wasn't impeached over any of that. He was impeached the first time for asking for "a favor" from the Ukrainian president to investigate Hunter Biden specifically. He was impeached the second time for inciting a riot at the capital because his ego is too fragile to concede defeat.


3
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: January 04, 2022, 02:54:42 PM »
Even if you are garunteed to get it,

the severity can be drastically reduced by vaccination and boosting.

And your initial viral dose exposure is going to be lower with good masking. That also can decrease severity.

4
General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: January 04, 2022, 02:44:12 PM »
Quote
Former President Donald Trump plans to hold a news conference at his Mar-a-Lago resort on January 6, seeking to co-opt the first anniversary of the attack by his supporters on the U.S. Capitol to push his false claims of election fraud.

At least this time any wayward supporters will only be storming the 18th green.  ::)

5
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: January 04, 2022, 02:34:18 PM »
...

I had it as well (pro tip: everyone's gonna get it) ...

Its so contagious that is it inevitable that every gets it? I'm masking in public and vaccinated. I haven't gotten goggles yet like Cherry but have considered it with Omicron spreading like wild fire. But from working from home my likely source of infection is kids from school or one of the few (<5) people in my social bubble that I regularly go maskless indoors with.

6
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: December 28, 2021, 11:27:41 PM »
Omicron was first detected in South Africa. Do we know that that's where it emerged?

Based on how crazy fast it causes spikes and the first spike was in Africa then I think we can conclude it originated near there.

7
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: December 28, 2021, 11:10:04 PM »
"... said CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen."

If I'm not mistaken she is one of those who thought that it was premature for Biden to be saying that the vaccinated (and people who self-identify on any particular day as vaccinated) can safely take off their masks.

Of course now we'll never know but it's entirely possible that if we had kept masks on in the first place we wouldn't be having so much trouble with these variants that get selected to spread specifically because they are the ones best able to avoid the protection of the vaccines. This is exactly what experts warned us about, the people like Wen who Biden says don't exist.

Delta was from India, omicron from South Africa. No us masking policy prevents those from forming. Delta wouldn’t have been as bad with better masking and vaccination.

8
General Comments / Re: God Exists
« on: December 16, 2021, 02:30:22 PM »
Quantum mechanics kind of disagrees. At the smallest scale particles and their opposite pop into and out of existence all the time. They just annihilate each other shortly after. Relativity and quantum mechanics are strange physical laws. We "understand" them mathematically. Some of the consequences of each are hard to reconcile with our observed reality. There is a somewhat intuitive way to view general relativity as curved space. The practical interpretation of quantum mechanics has been debated by physicists and philosophers for the last 100 years. So looking at Descartes "demon" for an argument of how understandable the universe is a bit outdated to our current understanding of physics.

Quantum Mechanics is still under development, and the Broglie-Bohm hidden variable interpretation allows for quantum mechanics to be deterministic.

But it doesn't matter. The sort of causality I am describing here does not entail determinism. A cause only needs to make an effect intelligible, it does not need to do so deterministically. Quantum mechanics shows us that the quantum world is intelligible.

...
Long delay in my response as well.

By intelligible you simply mean not completely random? A universe that had completely random and changing physical laws wouldn't be stable enough for life to ever form. So if such a universe existed there would be no creatures who ever moved far enough along the evolutionary chain to question their existence and the nature of the universe.

But at a fundamental level I have a question about your logic chain.
1) The universe can't just exist (in its intelligible state)
2) Some other stuff ... therefore there is a creator of said universe.

At the end of the whole chain (assuming I agree with all the premises and logic for a minute) I have the question. Where did this being with powers beyond anything we've observed come from? How did God come into existence? Was God created by a previous entity? God's origination from nothing seems as problematic logically as the universe being born from a big bang/nothing. How can an entity/intelligence outside of our universe have the power and capability to create everything in existence? Is it a Scott Adam's argument that the universe is God's debris?

9
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: December 16, 2021, 02:15:22 PM »
We see the pushback now coming from Democrat mayors and governors who understand the wisdom of returning to mando-masking. That's the kind of leadership that should be coming from the top but Biden can never admit making a mistake, a character flaw he shares with Trump and most other politicians. The Democrats God bless them, who see their constituents filling up ICUs and dying have consciences that won't allow such arrogance to get in the way of saving lives.
...

The CDC is recommending masking in public. My city has a mandate. The republican state legislatures have filed so many bills and lawsuits to fight state wide mandates that many governors haven't tried to reimpose one. When half of the political spectrum is actively fighting masks its seems a little crazy to place all of your blame on the democrats for not overcoming the resistance at every level of government to get the best policies in place.

Democrats could and should do better. But the Republican base and the most extreme of their followers that assault store clerks for asking people to wear masks bear the brunt of the blame for our masking and vaccination shortcomings.

10
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: December 16, 2021, 01:55:41 PM »
...

Either way, Trump would have been better and also better in another way if more Republicans would be willing to get vaccinated under Trump. Not sure if that's the case but it's possible. It could also be turned around so that more Republicans took the Trump vaccine while more Democrats, after listening to their leaders like Harris, decided not to.

You guys like to trot the Harris quote out but it was in direct response to Trump publicly pressuring the FDA to speed up. She never said she wouldn't trust the normal process, just not the Putin process where the vaccine is declared safe by the great leader and everyone should just take it.

Trump mocked people who used masks, got vaccinated in secret, held super spreader events at the white house, interacted with people for days after a positive coronavirus test, held massive super spreader rallies, Trump failed constantly on the pandemic. Biden jumped the gun on relaxing masking right before delta caused a new surge and all the politicians are either too timid or the executive has had power stripped by republican state legislatures to impose new mask mandates and omicron is going to kick our butts for it.

11
General Comments / Re: New trans laws
« on: December 16, 2021, 01:20:29 PM »
Ephrem Moseley
not sure I follow: Are you saying that a company should accommodate you (or anyone) because you have a 'physical' revulsion to working with someone who is trans?

Which would be weird unless your job involved sexual relations with your coworkers.

But I think he was just trying to post a reductio ad absurdum argument with some humor and just failed all around.

12
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: December 16, 2021, 11:55:14 AM »
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/16/1064668750/state-mask-mandates-omicron

Quote
A new statewide mask mandate in California took effect Wednesday. At a moment when health authorities are warning of the fast spread of the highly infectious omicron variant, states with mask mandates — just nine according to the Kaiser Family Foundation — are outliers.

This is true in places with huge surges, like Michigan, where there's no mandate and hospitals overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients. There's none in Ohio, where the legislature has taken away the governor's authority on mandates.
...
And the best way to do that is to keep cases as low as possible, and that means having a mask mandate in place.

Yeah, omicron means we should reinstitute mask mandates everywhere. But there are so many people who would defy them or threaten store clerks for trying to enforce them that our leaders are kowtowing to the extra loud mask resisters. Despite 60-70% of the rational public being pro mask.

With omicron we need masks, vaccines, and avoiding crowds when possible.

13
General Comments / Re: New trans laws
« on: December 15, 2021, 07:06:54 PM »
Pete at Home would understand

Always fun when “new” members name drop people who haven’t been around in years.

14
General Comments / Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« on: December 15, 2021, 09:03:59 AM »
But inspiring the crowd with inflammatory language is a far cry from a conspiracy, which is the characterization under discussion. Otherwise we might hold all BLM leaders responsible as conspirators for destruction and mayhem that followed one of their speeches. We could call the leaders of the antiwar Vietnam movement responsible for a conspiracy to cause a riot. Any of these groups bear some measure of responsibility for not keeping their followers peaceful, but that doesn't make them conspirators.

Trump is an expert at toeing the line, maybe slipping over with plausible deniability.

All the lies about the election, telling people their country was being stolen, holding a rally on Jan 6 close to the capital, then telling people to "fight like hell" and that he would march with them to the capital and then sitting in the white house and watching the chaos happen. He has a lot of culpability.

Did he have secret meetings with the proud boys and other groups on how to breach the capital? No. Does any violence that happened that day happen without Trump? No.

15
General Comments / Re: God Exists
« on: December 06, 2021, 12:18:43 PM »
1. The universe exists and is intelligible. That is to say, things exist and we can see that there are reasons for why things exist. Things don't pop in and out of existence for no reason.
...

Quantum mechanics kind of disagrees. At the smallest scale particles and their opposite pop into and out of existence all the time. They just annihilate each other shortly after. Relativity and quantum mechanics are strange physical laws. We "understand" them mathematically. Some of the consequences of each are hard to reconcile with our observed reality. There is a somewhat intuitive way to view general relativity as curved space. The practical interpretation of quantum mechanics has been debated by physicists and philosophers for the last 100 years. So looking at Descartes "demon" for an argument of how understandable the universe is a bit outdated to our current understanding of physics.

The universe if vast and complex. We don't understand dark matter or the weird "antigravitational" force (dark energy) that seems to act at long distance to on average push the universe apart.

If the basis of your argument is that the universe is "understandable" then you over estimate our current understanding of the universe other than it is not purely random with physical laws always changing. We assume physical constants are constant and the same everywhere in the universe because to assume otherwise leads to 1,000,000 different physical interpretations events that we can't begin to understand. But who is to say the speed of light at the birth of the universe is the same as it is today. And why is there a universal speed limit to how fast things can move? We have made great strides in understanding the universe, but you underestimate its great mysteries if you think it is completely understandable.

https://xkcd.com/1489/

Make sure to read the mouseover text there. Of the 4 fundamental forces we understand gravity the least at a basic level.

So without going super in depth in the rest of your analysis. If the first axiom is that the universe is completely understandable then you are vastly overestimating our understanding of the universe beyond a way to observe and predict the phenomenon we have mathematical descriptions of. But if you ask the questions why and how those things work you'll end up in a long conversation that ends with physicist shrugging and saying "because that's the way it works." Even the question of why inertial and gravitational mass are equivalent is really hard to grasp if you think about it too much.

16
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: December 03, 2021, 03:56:38 PM »
...
It's nice to know though that state governments are so anti-mask that they are willing to cover up the data proving that they are effective. Nice to know so hopefully they can be held to account and voted out, the people willing.

It would be nice if democracy worked that way. Unfortunately your brethren in the Republican party don't care and will reelect the same people who hid data from them.

17
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: December 03, 2021, 03:53:35 PM »
...
His plan doesn't include emphasizing masks either, and the only mention of it is for transportation. We're going to keep doing what we've been doing and we're going to keep getting what we've been getting. Failure.

At least his plan isn't to shut down the US government to oppose the limited vaccine mandates that are in place.

18
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: December 03, 2021, 11:41:18 AM »
...
Less than three months later, amid rising cases driven by the delta variant and more breakthrough coronavirus infections, Biden was forced this week to back away from that proclamation. The administration issued new guidance Tuesday that encourages fully vaccinated Americans to wear masks indoors in places with substantial infection levels, encompassing more than 60 percent of the nation’s counties."

-----------------------------------------------

Yeah, new guidance. The problem is nobody is listening to the new guidance. Unlike in Madrid, people are unmasked everywhere because Biden couldn't put that toothpaste back in the tube.
...

People are listening to the guidance. Just not where you live because the governor is fighting the guidance. When I go to the grocery store everyone is wearing a mask because its required in my city. Mask mandates are state and local. Blame your local/state officials that no one decided to listen to the updated guidance.

19
General Comments / Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« on: December 01, 2021, 09:33:08 AM »
I wonder why Meadows decided to testify?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-former-chief-staff-mark-181710196.html

Now lets hear all of the calls that he was a never Trumper and a RINO.

My guess would be Trump isn't going to pay his legal bills and he has no desire to join Steve Bannon in jail. Trump demands loyalty he doesn't give it.

20
General Comments / Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« on: November 18, 2021, 09:06:01 PM »
Certainly not very many. I suppose we might dig up one quote from somebody who only wanted to delay certification, but that wasn't any message promoted at the rally. I mean, they didn't call it "delay the steal".

Delay was the way Ted Cruz and a few other republican politicians played it. They knew the fraud claims were BS. They just wanted to throw some meat to the base and maybe find some way to boot the vote to congress where the republicans held the edge if it came to voting that way. Delay, distract, maybe steal was the strategy.

21
General Comments / Re: Militia in the streets
« on: November 17, 2021, 10:46:04 AM »
If the judge feels the case hasn't been made I am pretty sure in most jurisdictions the judge can dismiss the charges with prejudice. If the judge really thinks Rittenhouse is not guilty he can say so and have the trial be over. That's different from a mistrial which could lead to another trial.

Ok, but what if (let's say) a judge is corrupt and has been bribed to let someone off even though the evidence is compelling. In this case the prosecution can appeal a not guilty verdict?

I don't know about the dismissed case. I know both the judge and individual can be charged with bribery/corruption. Maybe some of our more legally minded posters will know the particulars if a judges conduct can be so egregious or corrupt as to allow for a new trial. But my inclination is that a new trial would be impossible unless the judges behavior rises to the level of illegality and even then I don't know if its possible to have a new trial.

22
General Comments / Re: Militia in the streets
« on: November 17, 2021, 09:40:41 AM »
I see, so nullification is only in the direction of not-guilty. So what the judge is saying appears to mean that the chances for the prosecution to try to argue for mistrial has been timed out on purpose, i.e. that the judge is so adamant that the defendant is not guilty that he won't even 'allow' a mistrial to be declared?

If the judge feels the case hasn't been made I am pretty sure in most jurisdictions the judge can dismiss the charges with prejudice. If the judge really thinks Rittenhouse is not guilty he can say so and have the trial be over. That's different from a mistrial which could lead to another trial. 

23
General Comments / Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« on: November 15, 2021, 02:15:56 PM »
Point being, this individual did not strike a cop, didn't hurt anyone and his sentence is heavier than the guy who did. You're claiming that it was inappropriate because of politics. But meanwhile you're complaining constantly about law and order, stiffer penalties, and not letting anyone get away with anything.

Setting fires in a city during a chaotic situation is dangerous. I don't have a problem with either prison sentence.

24
General Comments / Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« on: November 15, 2021, 01:48:47 PM »
I really wonder what Trump is trying to hide.  His suite to block the info using Executive Privilege is doomed to failure.  If he has nothing to hide, if he and his  people did nothing wrong, why work so hard to hide the info?

The whole goal is to delay until 2022 and hope Republicans win the house back and can bury everything for him.

25
General Comments / Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« on: November 12, 2021, 09:05:43 AM »
"A New Jersey gym owner who punched a police officer during the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol has been sentenced to more than three years in prison. Scott Fairlamb's sentencing on Wednesday to 41 months in prison
...
Lamberth said Fairlamb's actions struck at "the heart of our democracy." He had pleaded guilty, avoiding a trial."

--------------------------------------------------------------------

That's cool. People who punch police officers should get prison time, definitely. Over three years though?

...

The important thing though is to send a message that questioning the integrity of our elections will not be tolerated. So for the guy who punched the police officer, he gets 6 months for that and then the rest is for thinking that there might be more voter fraud than is caught, also known as treason.

Wow you found a case where someone with money got a lighter sentence than deserved. I'm shocked, shocked, such a thing happens. I'm sure I can find a story of some black kid hitting  a cop and getting more than 3 years. Would that make this just? Address the issue, don't play what aboutism crap with any assault charge you can find.


26
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: November 11, 2021, 03:00:26 PM »
Trump staffers at the time are sure they killed Herman Caine.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/killed-herman-cain-trump-staffers-181542040.html

This is just now news? It was pretty clear by the timing they killed him. Lots of Trump people were diagnosed around the time and his positive test was right in the middle of the incubation period for COVID.

27
General Comments / Re: The Book Banning Begins
« on: November 11, 2021, 02:45:31 PM »
The right has done more to publicize critical race theory than anyone on the left ever could or did. It wasn't being taught in schools, unless you take CRT to be so broad as to include that the USA had discriminatory laws and institutions in our past. I don't think that fact is very controversial. But it can be made to sound scary and politicians on the left didn't know how to address it so they ended up looking like idiots.

The right runs on culture issues and governs by making the rich richer. They occasionally pass some bad laws banning stupid things or banning things that aren't happening. Sharia law ban, carrying which stall trans folk walk into in public, and I'm sure many others. But their real legislative effect is to enrich businesses and lower taxes on the rich.

28
General Comments / Re: The Book Banning Begins
« on: November 11, 2021, 02:38:42 PM »
The most cited thing from NYC is "white privilege" which of course as a concept is not at all CRT. Those denying that white privilege exists are uneducated. Numerous studies have demonstrated white advantage based only on an applicants name. Policies discriminating against traditionally black hairstyles exist. Wanting your kids to not be taught that is willful ignorance. If the concept of white privilege triggers you, that too is an example of white privilege.

White privilege is so horribly misnamed. The connotation of privilege is something that should be removed from individuals to level the playing field. Almost every example of "white privilege" I've seen given is that white people don't face discrimination. The issue isn't that white people "have privilege" its that discrimination, be it racial, economic, or some combination of both still exists.

So correctly stated white people are privileged to not face discrimination. But more clearly stated is that subtle, and sometimes overt, forms of discrimination still exist in our society and should be addressed. Addressing that by calling white people "privileged" doesn't seem to be productive.

29
General Comments / Re: Militia in the streets
« on: November 11, 2021, 01:01:24 PM »
One of the worst bits of disinformation is the current idea that the wild west was a time of gun-slingers and criminality. In fact, it was the most peaceful of times, because everyone carried (largely to protect against snakes and other wild animals, and armed citizens ensured peace.

They had a relatively low population density and sometimes very strict gun laws about carrying in town. When everyone knows each other crime tends to be lower. The last person shot had a handgun. Pretty sure he would be in his rights to have shot Rittenhouse as well. Rittenhouse had just killed two people and pointed his rifle at him. Mutual self defense claims are somewhat justified. Sorry I don't want to live in a society where the occasional shootout happens and we just shrug and say self defense.

30
General Comments / Re: The Jan 6 Commission
« on: November 11, 2021, 10:34:10 AM »
Unarmed Babbit was shot by a Dem hireling, who has been protected and hidden away. Name an incident where police were attacked by GOP protestors. Yes, there were some Dem agitators identified in the crowd - but just without Tiki Torches so the lame brain media couldn't identify them to their satisfaction. Even the few protestors arrested and thrown in jail without a trial have never been charged with violence.
...

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/10/1054395264/capitol-rioter-hit-police-officer-3-years-prison-scott-fairlamb

Quote
A New Jersey gym owner who punched a police officer during the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol has been sentenced to more than three years in prison. Scott Fairlamb's sentencing on Wednesday to 41 months in prison
...
Lamberth said Fairlamb's actions struck at "the heart of our democracy." He had pleaded guilty, avoiding a trial.

Quote
Over 650 people have been charged with federal crimes related to the Jan. 6 riot, including more than 100 accused of assaulting law enforcement officers. More than 120 defendants have pleaded guilty, mostly to misdemeanors that carry a maximum of six months imprisonment.

How do you feel now? A guilty plea for violence at the capital. Another 100 assault charges outstanding.

31
General Comments / Re: The Book Banning Begins
« on: November 10, 2021, 11:36:35 AM »
Does anyone else smell the odor of the real reason Republicans are making a big deal of critical race theory here? ;)

They can make the cliff notes version out to be radical and scary. And despite its complete absence of being taught outside of some grad schools it makes for "good politics." It stirs up their base and swings some moderates who think the far left is too much.

32
General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: November 03, 2021, 03:20:47 PM »
All of these elections were rigged.  I mean Trump didn't get any votes.  How could that be?  How could he drop from 74 million votes to none?  There is no statistical way that can happen.  So there must have been transfers of votes behind the scenes. Trump won every election across the country.

It's almost like there was a conspiracy to keep him off the ballot everywhere. I think it goes super deep. I mean, real deep, all the way back to the writing of the constitution deep. Talk about the deep state conspiring against Trump. All those founding father's making elections every 4 years preventing Trump from running again now. The conspiracy is deep, all the way to the foundation of our country.  The deep deep state, even the dead and buried state is against Trump.

33
General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: November 03, 2021, 02:33:25 PM »
And Republicans look to have won a close race in Virginia and greatly exceeded expectations in New Jersey. Are Democrats just getting worse at cheating? Or are elections not actually rigged and more people just see Trump as the toxic waste dump of a person that he is?

34
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: November 02, 2021, 02:24:39 PM »
...
What happened to that guy? He had one thing going for him and he threw it away for no good reason.

Abbot and DeSantis didn't betray me because I never trusted them on masks. Biden I trusted and you can only be betrayed by the people you trust. That's what really hurts. And in this case kills.

And again those are the guys controlling the mask mandates with have always been state or local. The CDC underestimated the stupidity of those guys and the unvaccinated. It was an idiotic mistake because it was entirely predictable. But mayors and governors where always the ones who created and had the power to keep, remove, or in the case of the worst offenders prevent mask mandates.

What is your hypothesis on FL currently having the lowest cases in the country per day, per capita in the country, despite preventing mask mandates?

Florida has a higher than the national average of vaccination rate. Also they burned hot with the delta variant through the unvaccinated this summer. 13 million vaccinated + 4 million cases gets Florida to about 80% of the population with a antibody response which is close to the herd immunity threshold for Covid. There is probably an overlap in some of the vaccinated and cases. So maybe Florida is closer to 75% of people with an antibody response to covid.

But as has also been mentioned the bigger cities and counties of Florida required masks in public. So while the governor fought masks local governments that represent a majority of the population have still required them.

35
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: November 02, 2021, 11:24:15 AM »
...
What happened to that guy? He had one thing going for him and he threw it away for no good reason.

Abbot and DeSantis didn't betray me because I never trusted them on masks. Biden I trusted and you can only be betrayed by the people you trust. That's what really hurts. And in this case kills.

And again those are the guys controlling the mask mandates with have always been state or local. The CDC underestimated the stupidity of those guys and the unvaccinated. It was an idiotic mistake because it was entirely predictable. But mayors and governors where always the ones who created and had the power to keep, remove, or in the case of the worst offenders prevent mask mandates.

36
General Comments / Re: A Message from the Donald
« on: November 01, 2021, 01:14:01 PM »
The only thing we know for sure is that if it was true most of the press would gladly collude with the administration to clean it up and cover it up just like they're doing with all the other messes this guy is making.
...

That's a nice way to give yourself a pass on saying I'll believe anything I want evidence be damned.

37
General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: November 01, 2021, 12:48:22 PM »
Quote
Overall, 58% said they trust elections in the country either a great deal or a good amount.

But while almost 9 in 10 Democrats and 60% of independents said so, just a third of Republicans agreed.

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/01/1050291610/most-americans-trust-elections-are-fair-but-sharp-divides-exist-a-new-poll-finds

90% of democrats trust elections, 60% of independents and 33% of Republicans. Democracy wept. Trump is still killing our nation. Worst president ever.

38
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: November 01, 2021, 10:42:53 AM »
Cherry, it would be easier to take you seriously if you ever posted these reviews about how wrong Abbot and DeSantis have been about not just continuing to recommend masks for vaccinated people but actively prevent schools, cities, and businesses from having a mask mandate.

39
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: October 31, 2021, 08:19:52 PM »
"The CDC ended its mask mandate for vaccinated individuals as a way to encourage people to get vaccinated..."

But whose bright idea was that really?

We'll never know of course but I'm not going to believe it originated with the CDC especially with the enthusiastic way Biden took that victory lap. Everyone else is free of course to believe whatever they want.

The cdc had a mask recommendation. All mask mandates are state or local. My town has one again. Blame your dumbA governor that no one in Texas can be required to wear a mask.

40
General Comments / Re: Election Results
« on: October 28, 2021, 10:04:28 PM »
I know y'all will hate to hear this but at some point the apparent lack of evidence of ANY DEMOCRAT VOTER FRAUD AT ALL is even more damning than if we saw some evidence of it but it wasn't all that much.

In other words, it's easier to believe that there was overwhelming undetectable Democrat voter fraud than that absolutely none existed.

Of course it's probably somewhere in the middle but the apparent lack of ability of our fraud detection systems to find any Democrat voter fraud at all doesn't give most people the confidence in our elections Democrats seem to assume, and even demand.

Nope anything found will be seen by trumpers as the tip of the iceberg. Just look at you, we find only a few Republicans and you assume the systems are flawed. If we found something the same excuse would exist.

41
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: October 26, 2021, 12:03:36 PM »
It's more important to get the rest of the world vaccinated than to refresh our own vaccinated people. Though boosters might still be appropriate for high risk people, especially those likely to be superspreaders.

That doesn't seem like equivalent arithmetic to me. Meaning, when weighing the relative safety for an American of 100,000 American people getting a booster, versus 100,000 Indian people getting a 1st vaccine, I would find it hard to believe the actual day-to-day safety is equivalent. It seems like almost a no-brainer that Americans getting a booster is better for Americans. The only question is whether Americans would be satisfied with a somewhat reduced safety margin in order to help other countries (and perhaps in the medium-term, the supply chains that they rely on).

Delta originated in India and caused chaos in America. So I think boosters of marginal efficacy vs vaccinating the world is probably relatively balanced in safety to Americans. While vaccinating the world clearly has the greater benefit to larger humanity. That doesn't mean we shouldn't study when vaccines need boosters. But the effectiveness of phizer and moderna indicate that vaccinated unvaccinated people in the US and the world is probably the most efficacious use of materials. There probably is a small group in the US that need boosters.

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Okay, that is not a good look for the McMichaels. I still don't trust the media to tell the whole truth and we saw that with the Zimmerman case, the case in Ferguson, and many others, but if they just saw a black man running past their house and decided to chase him down and perform a citizen's arrest on him then I'm starting to lose interest in defending the McMichaels in the court of public opinion.  I'm not seeing where the McMichaels called the police either, just the neighbor.

I could say some not so nice things like I wonder if the thefts around the neighborhood, if there were any, stopped, but I won't speculate on that. Even if they did it wouldn't mean Arbery was responsible and even if he was the way some of the citizens handled it does expose them to the possibility of legal trouble. Well we'll see how it goes.

And there is the problem with the neighborhood not even bothering to report the break ins. We don't know how wide spread the thefts were. Yes I know the police aren't going to spend 10k+ on time, forensics, and investigating to recover 1k of stolen goods and the perpetrator is unlikely to be caught. However, not reporting it at all lets the crime go unnoticed completely by police. Collect ring camera footage, eventually the police may stumble across the guy and get him to plea bargain out on the robberies. Using guns and two cars to chase down every black man that wanders through your neighborhood isn't the answer. I can't see caring about crime that much and not caring enough to spend 30 minutes talking to the cops. Hell, if you really care, walk around the neighborhood and collect and review door bell footage yourself. Probably nothing will come of it, but filing a police report and reviewing security footage isn't going to end up with anyone dead and if someone ends up in prison it will be the thief and not you for going off half cocked after every "suspicious person" you see.

43
Snap over someone cutting across your yard? You've got mental problems if that triggers you so badly.

And then you eventually get sued when someone has a trip and fall incident on your property resulting in a lasting injury because of something left out in your yard.
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Listening to you and Cherry fret about trespassing I'm amazed I survived childhood without someone shooting me for trespassing by cutting across a lawn or wooded area on my way to my friends houses or just out playing. Somehow survived without being shot or ever arrested for trespass. Good thing I'm not black.

44
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: October 21, 2021, 02:39:30 PM »
As was pointed out weeks ago - he did not clearly and unequivocally lie.  By one widely used definition of 'gain of function' including that used by the NIH - his statement was accurate.

LR, he literally told Sen. Paul to his face that he didn't know what he was talking about. He didn't just say, "well, it depends on exactly the definition, so by some standards yes, and by other standards no." He definitively and firmly said it was no, full stop, with no possible way around it, no matter what Sen. Paul said to him. This was a blatant and direct lie.
...

The NIH is huge and gives out a lot of research grants. The grant to Wuhan was given as part of a larger grant from the NIH to some other organization for virus research. If he asked his staff, did we give any grants to the Wuhan lab and they said no. Then he may have not even known about the money Paul was talking about. Maybe he should have been more careful with his statement or his definitions. But this seems to be a bit nit picky on a couple technicalities based on a couple hundred grand that went to Wuhan from a couple million dollar grant to some organization that was doing virus or vaccine research. The NIH gives out billions in grants every year. To think Fauci (or any single individual) immediately oversees or has knowledge of each grant and sub grant is absurd.

Maybe he knew about the sub-grant, can't remember if that was part of the discussion. But can't blame him for maybe responding a bit too definitively when the questioning looked like Paul was planning on making him and the NIH a scape goat. Long term it may not play well. But neither would have sitting around discussing the technical definition of gain of function. Either way, Paul is going to get the sound bite he wants to try to discredit Fauci.

45
General Comments / Re: here comes the next ice age
« on: October 21, 2021, 11:33:27 AM »
...
 As the fear of warming is publicized, you don't hear of the benefits coming from it. Basically, the warmer it gets, the more food can be grown to feed people. The nay-Sayers pretend the warming would produce desert conditions - but that is not a real threat.
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https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/great-western-drought-explained
Quote
Yes, another severe drought is sweeping across the western United States. California is now two years into a deep drought after suffering from its worst drought in 1,200 years between 2012 and 2016.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/20/1047700783/climate-change-is-bad-for-your-health-and-plans-to-boost-economies-may-make-it-w
Quote
It may seem obvious: Heat kills. Wildfires burn. Flooding drowns.

But the sprawling health effects of a rapidly warming world can also be subtle. Heat sparks violence and disrupts sleep. Wildfire smoke can trigger respiratory events thousands of miles away. Flooding can increase rates of suicide and mental health problems. Warmer winters expand the range of disease-carrying mosquitoes and ticks.

A new report from the medical journal The Lancet finds that human-caused climate change is worsening human health in just about every measurable way

Just keep telling your self how great that warmer weather is. Bigger storms, bigger droughts, more heat waves, more wild fires, more deaths.

46
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We can even wonder if Arbery had won that fight and taken that shotgun away and then killed those two guys, would that have been self-defense? There's a very good argument for it.
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You have your answer. The two rednecks in the pick up were in the wrong. They instigated a situation in which you see them getting killed and Arbery having not committed a crime then its pretty inconcevable they're actions were legal or wise.

Maybe these two idiots weren't out looking to kill someone but they clearly aggressively confronted a black man for being black in the wrong neighborhood. They brought the guns, they were the aggressors, Arbery clearly tried to keep jogging around the truck in the video. Something made him stop to try to get the gun away. The most likely explanation for his change in tactics is either the man tried to physically stop him or pointed the gun at him.

If these two "vigilantes" are innocent via self defense then anyone can get away with murder. Pull a gun on someone in the street make sure they know they can't run because you're in a vehicle and when they fight you shoot them and claim self defense because you were assaulted. Might as well legalize murder at that point.

I think vigilantes is too kind a word for these guys.

47
"Re: How broken does a justice system have to be before vigilantism is moral?"
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You're going to get stuck paying the $500 deductible and nobody is going to care and nobody is going to do anything. If your community did care and had some kind of neighborhood watch and confronted thieves during crimes in progress or right afterwards then you're going to get people hurt and killed as a result just like we saw with Arbery. Let's say the police did catch Arbery. Would they have done anything? Almost certainly no, nothing at all. We're already passed the point anyone really relies on the law to protect them particularly when it comes to property crimes. The vast majority of people just give up and live with it.

Can anyone blame people who get fed up? Yeah, Democrats can. Just stop whining and suffer your fate.

What did Arbery do? Walk through an open construction site? The men who stopped him weren't the owners. WTF do you expect the police to do? Should I call the police on everyone who walks through my yard while our walking their dog. Have them get a ticket for trespass? The police would tell me to go away as they should. Seriously, how would you react if someone confronted you this way over speeding, jaywalking, or walking through a neighbors yard?

48
https://www.bakersfield.com/ap/national/florida-police-officer-28-killed-in-overnight-confrontation-with-teenage-suspect/article_91aa467f-454b-5d55-a48e-3f527e4375e7.html

So here's a case. A guy was just riding his bicycle. Sure, he's pulling on car door handles but is that a crime? Nobody saw him go into any of the cars so he did less than Arbery. Nobody saw him take anything.

Now would a neighborhood watch or concerned citizen be within their rights to ask him, "Hey how's it going, wat'cha doin' pulling on those car door handles?"

They don't need to be armed for that do they? They don't need a shotgun out or a pistol, right?

Well, the guy shot and killed a police officer so maybe they would need to be armed after all.

And the suspect is an 18 year old kid just out for a bike ride.

Pulling on car doors is suspicious behavior and worth reporting to the police.

And if a regular citizen walked up to him unarmed and asked what he was doing I doubt he is going to pull out a pistol and shoot them. Probably just tell them to f-off. The cop shows up with a gun and the media has exaggerated the danger to black men on the street from the police. So the guy pulls out his gun and shoots first.

Maybe these are both excellent cases why you shouldn't confront people for mildly suspicious behavior.

The citizen walking up with a shot gun. Both sides are probably "innocent" under some interpretations of stand your ground laws. So unless you're looking for a shootout at the O.K. Carral, probably avoid doing things like this while armed. And if you think the person is likely to shoot you if you are unarmed then don't confront them at all. But walking up armed immediately escalates the situation.

49
I'll even stipulate, if you see someone commit a crime, actually witnessing it, I'll take back most of not all of my objections. Report it FIRST. then if you want to follow, ask, confront, maybe even detain, it makes a whole lot of sense.

Very much depends on the crime. Walking through an open construction site or taking a short cut through a private lawn are report first. Confront and detain, hell no. Even follow for that level of crime is absurd.

Someone assaults someone on the street. Report, follow, sure. Confront if you are confident you can do it safely. Detain, I would say almost never for citizens.

50
The media lied about him not doing anything illegal. Trespassing is illegal.

Speeding and jaywalking are illegal. Yet we don't chase down people guilty of those crimes with firearms and confront them on the street well after the crime was over. The men didn't own the property in question. They didn't confront him while he was trespassing. This isn't some let everything go argument. But justifying confronting Arbury in this way would justify chasing down every car who passes you on the interstate and confronting them with firearms in the walmart parking lot after they have parked. How many times of doing that before you think the situation is going to end very badly for someone? How would you feel if someone did that to you to institute a citizens arrest because of you exceeding the speed limit on the way to get groceries? Would you assume they were just a concerned citizen or would you think they are trying to rob, kidnap, or harm you in some serious way?

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