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Messages - rightleft22

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1
RL-22,

“Nothing burger
Fake news“


Is this a conclusion based upon real scrutiny, or hope?

WS,

“And what will you do when it is not proven beyond a reasonable doubt?  What will you do when it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that this was a forgery only intended to try to fool people like you into believing a lie... “

You expect the hard-disk to be “forged“?

“... like the whole Obama birth certificate scandal?  What will you do then, noel?”

I never bought into the Kenya birth story. The reason that Barry would not release his Long-Form birth certificate is that it contradicted his book. He was illegitimate.

You didn't answer the question.
What would you do it this Hunter thing isn't true or can't be proved to be true?

2
General Comments / Re: How to save the country
« on: October 19, 2020, 04:02:01 PM »
Do the Judges who believe in a  'static constitution' (I assume being the opposite of a living constitution) believe that no interpretation is required.

Language is a tricky thing.

Tried to read through Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics and the one thing got from it is that communicating ideas and intent is extremely difficult.

3
General Comments / Re: How to save the country
« on: October 19, 2020, 03:42:29 PM »
What does 'believe in the Living Constitution' mean?

4
Nothing burger
Fake news

5
General Comments / Re: How to save the country
« on: October 16, 2020, 02:26:26 PM »
...Same could be said of the republicans. Democrats have won the plurality of the popular vote for the president 6 of the last 7 presidential elections.  Also in the last several house elections they have won a significant majority of the votes.

You miss the point. The Democrats are held together by the need for power. The other side holds together on issues they agree upon. The margin of votes the Left pushed through in vote-scam blue areas barely overcame the huge victories elsewhere. Many proclaim that margin less than the margin of error.

People cannot put political signs on their property for fear of vandalism and threats from Democrats, so polling does not work any more. What is noteworthy is that there are so many Trump signs going up bravely everywhere. The lack of Biden support has diminished the Democrat threats and bullying, and people are reacting.

The predictions known for accuracy based on algorithms that have been successful say Trump will win is a 91% certainty. This makes the Left frantic, hence the threats of Civil War.

OMG
I'm pretty sure your a troll or in need of help

RightLeft22: please see your email. -OrneryMod

6
I'm personally willing to believe Trump whenever he talks about things he doesn't know, even if he did once know them. The boiling maelstrom that is his brain probably can't retain information for very long.

Let's recall that this is the man that talked about taking over airports in the Revolutionary War.

I disagree. Trump never admits to not knowing something unless not knowing provides a excuse for saying something troubling or not doing something.
Its why trump never is held accountable for what he says as he never really says it

7
Trumpism is here to stay, at least for the next decade.

I also would not bet on Trump losing the election

8
General Comments / Re: How to save the country
« on: October 16, 2020, 01:53:36 PM »
Can anyone argue now that the stage has not been set? Democrats and the GOP have simultaneous town halls, yet one has an attack-dog moderator and the one for Biden is all soft balls, with zero questions about the corruption allegations. At the same time, the Billionaire Social Media magnates deny the public from seeing official and legal documents during an election. The Democrats have prepared for and called for Civil War if Trump is re-elected, yet they say that is what the GOP and Trump may do. Projection.

The Democrats have never been a majority party - but a plurality party, with discordant sectors with opposing views voting together to hold power. With the Harry Reid cloture rule change, the gerrymandering, court-packing, and making territories into states to get extra Senate seats, they are looking for an unassailable rule. The stage is set, and the GOP cannot vote with comity any longer. No more votes for a SCOTUS who is merely sufficient and accepted because it is the POTUS choice. Every vote is now for total win or lose.

You live in a reality of your own shadow creation
Have you ever wondered if its Trumps combative pre - counter punch communication style that creates the attack-dog moderator reaction?

Your a very dangerous avatar. Note when it comes to talk of Civil War its comes from you.

9
What a joke. Trump can only know about Antifa. Proud boys, QAnon, are all a mystery to him. Even after answering questions about QAnon over a month ago. He didn't take 5 minutes to learn they're nuts.

It's a little worse than that - his own intelligence agencies have labelled Qanon as a domestic terrorist threat.  Notwithstanding that was all over the interwebs and cable news, so there is exactly 0% chance he is not somewhat informed of them, his intelligence updates, those communications provided by his own intelligence services specifically for the purposes of preparing the administration for threats to the country, included information on Qanon.

How is it possible that he would not know about Qanon, given they were part of this communication? Hint - the answer is Trump ignores communications from his own intelligence services, even when he is not actively demonizing them.  This type of incompetency should be disqualifying in a president - at the very minimum, the president should be interested in protecting the country - yet here you are.

Trump never says what he says unless he says it. Trump knows everything about everything unless he dons't know it even then he most certainly knows more then anyone that has spent their lives studying.

Why we seem to be surprised when Trump makes such claims about what he knows or doesn't know is beyond me. 

10
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: October 16, 2020, 10:21:13 AM »
Also disappointing. Starting to hear reports of people contracting covid twice

11
I love a good conspiracy theory but I'm not ready to invest in this one yet. I'll need to look into the prospectus a little more first.

I used to say the same thing about conspiracy theories until the day I realized that far to many people don't view them as conspiracies or theories but reality.
I no longer find they funny and try not to give them any oxygen.

12
General Comments / Re: Biden Undercuts Confidence in Election Results
« on: October 13, 2020, 06:07:20 PM »
Quote
I hope this doesn't come off as sounding too racist but since it's having to do with Russians maybe it's politically okay. But the Democrats act a lot like Russians in this way. The more they cheat and lie and steal to get what they want the greater the satisfaction they feel when they win. Not all of them of course, but it's ingrained in their culture, maybe even in their DNA. To them, deception is the funnest part of the game. Do I mean Russians? Or Democrats? ... Yes.

On what facts do you base the statement "The more they cheat and lie and steal to get what they want the greater the satisfaction they feel when they win" and that it is in the Democrat DNA?

Of course many would argue that its in the Republican DNA.  But how to prove it?

I suspect one would avoid looking to closely at ones 'tribe' to avoid the charge let alone admit to oneself of having a character that enjoys being a lair, cheat and thief. I suspect one would lie to oneself about that as well. 

13
General Comments / Re: Why so cagey?
« on: October 13, 2020, 03:25:12 PM »
Maybe part of the reluctance to openly state certain beliefs is to quell concerns about the potentially partisan nature of the SC? As others have mentioned, if the issue of the SC as a partisan football is serious then perhaps there is some effort now to demonstrate to the public that SC nominations aren't some one-way ticket to armageddon?

Quelling such concerns would be difficult and points to the process as being a show.

I suspect some will see the reversal of abortion and marriage laws as a ticket to Armageddon.  I suspect that such reversal will just cause the pendulum to swing that much harder in the future and that the only way for the GOP remain a power will be from manipulating the system -The GOP making rules that don't apply to them.

14
General Comments / Re: Why so cagey?
« on: October 13, 2020, 02:57:55 PM »
I agree it would be refashioning for someone to be up front and speak honestly about their views .
I find the whole process a show. I'm not following closely but suspect the questions being asked are the wrong ones.
 

 

15
General Comments / Re: Why so cagey?
« on: October 13, 2020, 01:49:02 PM »
Anything you say and don't say will be held against you.

But that's what I'm saying, how would someone hold it against her? There's only one way, not confirming her. Otherwise she becomes untouchable forever, with the exception of impeachment, which requires 67 Senators, and that ain't happening. It's the last job she'll ever have, can't impact career.

I suspect that her persona/ego needs to appear to be open minded capable of making decisions based on law and the public good verses personal biases and beliefs. Capable of separating church and state

16
General Comments / Re: Why so cagey?
« on: October 13, 2020, 01:10:27 PM »
Anything you say and don't say will be held against you.

17
General Comments / Re: Biden Undercuts Confidence in Election Results
« on: October 13, 2020, 11:56:37 AM »
When those making the claim that Biden is undercutting confidence in the election results are unable to address or acknowledge the issue of Trump undermining the process I don't see any point in given their claim any oxygen.

These "debate's" are not about facts but point to a physiological issue of projection, shadow and tribalism.

18
General Comments / Re: Misleading or false claims by the media
« on: October 09, 2020, 05:46:23 PM »
Quote
Trump; an effective politician no doubt tries to marry public good with his own good regularly

I can't agree with that statement or perhaps I would reorder it. as in Trump very much the politician focus is his on good over the public good regularly.  Trump is a transaction politician whos starting point is whats in it for him.  We can debate if that makes him 'effective'

Hillary emails have been investigated many time and if their were incriminating Trump would be pressing charges not just declassifying them.

Perhaps such transparency is a good thing however the timing is all about benefiting Trump.  That you can look away from such ethical and leadership principles for the your definition of greater good of transparency is fine.

That does make a statement. And as many feel the way you do is it no wonder we get the kind of leadership that we do?

19
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: October 09, 2020, 03:44:43 PM »
Does Biden's lead in the poll's mean anything?

On Election night Trump is going to declare victory which ever way the vote goes. The republicans won't do anything about it and the Democrats will discover they can't do anything about it.
Well... I think it highly unlikely, but if Florida goes to Biden on election night, even before the mail in ballots are all counted, there simply won't be any path for Trump to achieve anything better than an outright shellacking.

But yes, I agree - unless there is a Biden win of epic proportions, Trump will declare victory.

Let's be careful about the "on election night" bit, because Florida is likely to have plenty of mail in votes and they might just go Trump's way.

and the argument will be that in Florida case mail in ballots are good and safe while any state where Trump loses from mail in's they will be fraud

20
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: October 09, 2020, 02:51:51 PM »
Does Biden's lead in the poll's mean anything?

On Election night Trump is going to declare victory which ever way the vote goes. The republicans won't do anything about it and the Democrats will discover they can't do anything about it.

No, the polls mean nothing. It' sad, because I studied demographics, and while it should be possible to come close - the current polling seems designed to fail.

The stupidity of the notion that Trump will declare victory, no matter which ever way the vote goes is appalling. It was Hillary who told Biden to not concede no matter what. That sends the signal that she believes the vote can be doctored after the votes are counted. If Trump wins by a landslide, but the Democrats file suit to delay the final vote of the Elcetoral College, what do you propose?

I hear what your saying and agree that Hillary was wrong however if that was wrong,  is it not also wrong for Trump to throw doubt on a peaceful transition of power. Should we not condemn both Hillary and Trump?  And thank god that Hillary is old news?

21
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: October 09, 2020, 02:25:01 PM »
Does Biden's lead in the poll's mean anything?

On Election night Trump is going to declare victory which ever way the vote goes. The republicans won't do anything about it and the Democrats will discover they can't do anything about it.

22
General Comments / Re: Misleading or false claims by the media
« on: October 09, 2020, 02:21:25 PM »
Aside from that, to pretend that doing something for oneself will benefit the country because the self in question is better than the alternative is to argue in circles.

I don't know why you keep arguing these points with me as if you're trying to convince me about what is right and wrong. I am stating what I take to be facts, or at least the best we can do as ascertaining the facts, of the mindset of certain people. Making statements that attempt to describe how people think is only debatable if you believe there is a better way to explain how they think. You telling me what will or won't actually benefit the country is literally off-topic.

Perhaps if the question is reworded.
Is using one's political office in order to benefit oneself (personal benefit) wrong?

23
...Mask are not the solution as you point out, but a part of the solution. Staying home if your don't feel well, washing your hands often, social distancing, and wearing a mask are all part of the preventive measures we can all take to protect others. And protecting other ourselves.

Totally agree, but with the caveat that it can only be voluntary. Forcing this on people might get you kidnapped.

With the caveat that as you noted in your other post that those that don't were the mask create a greater risk for those that do. 
Not wearing a mask were others are is making a statement.

24
No one thinks masks are the solution. When wearing any mask and walking through a cloud of droplets, those droplets become affixed to the mask and go wherever the mask wearer goes, and is spread from the mask. But at the same time, the shirts, pants, hat and gloves that are also contaminated go with the wearer, too.

You are coming from a point of view of masks protecting you. Masks protect others from your droplets. If every everyone has a mask on everyone is better protected. Those who refuse are the ones placing others at risk for the reasons you give.

Mask are not the solution as you point out, but a part of the solution. Staying home if your don't feel well, washing your hands often, social distancing, and wearing a mask are all part of the preventive measures we can all take to protect others. And protecting other ourselves.



25
General Comments / Re: Misleading or false claims by the media
« on: October 07, 2020, 01:10:38 PM »
Quote
The master showman strikes again
Says it all, worship your god as you will and never ever look in the mirror.

26
So apparently Trump is getting the VIP treatment with his care and that makes people upset.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/vip-syndrome-trump-discharge-walter-reed-expert-164959783.html

"Alfandre noted that while “VIP” may imply these individuals receive better treatment, many times it’s the opposite. “In spite of these perceived benefits, the quality of their care may be inferior because health care staff may be more likely to deviate from standard practices when caring for them.”

Reports about Trump’s care, which have come mostly from press briefings, suggest an atypical experience. On top of being released after three days in the hospital, while still in the midst of treatment, he’s reportedly received multiple experimental treatments — including the antiviral remdesivir, an unapproved monoclonal antibody therapy and a corticosteroid known as dexamethasone. The three are rarely (if ever) given together and are typically reserved for serious illness.

McIntosh says all of this aligns with VIP syndrome, which can lead to both too much and too little care...

... “We have an ethical code of conduct we have to follow whereby we’re told to respect patient autonomy, to treat everybody equal and not to differentiate care based on somebody’s race, gender or socioeconomic status,” says McIntosh. “So we’re being told really to practice unethically.” Currently teaching her students about the dangers of the syndrome, McIntosh hopes that things may change. But when it comes to individuals like Trump, she knows what it feels like.

“The health care team listens to them, they feel intimidated, and that’s part of the VIP syndrome — they use their power,” says McIntosh. “They use it to exert pressure on the team and say, ‘This is what I want and no, I don’t want this.’ If they don’t want this X-ray, they won’t get it. If they want to get this discharged early, then they’re getting discharged early. They dictate their care.”

So people should listen to and trust their doctors, right?

But then there's this:

"A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.

Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

I don't think its the VIP treatment that Trump gets, and should get, that people are upset about.

Its his inability to express empathy for the thousands that have suffered from covid and who don't have access to such care.
Pretty much it his arrogance, dismissing of any safety prototypical that endangered not just him, its all about him, and his non existing empathy the pisses so many people off. 

27
General Comments / Re: Misleading or false claims by the media
« on: October 07, 2020, 09:52:23 AM »
All news media headlines: Trump calls off stimulus talks, stocks drop 600; Stephen Miller tests positive for COVID-19

Fox News: Clinton e-mails!!! Clinton e-mails!!! Clinton e-mails!!!

I thought you were joking, so I visited fox news and saw it was true.  :(

Guess that is the story Trump's campaign wants to focus on.

If it wasn't so obvious attempt of distracting the loyal Trumpketeers who will latch on suck, it would be funny instead of sad.

28
The doctor looked foolish and I suspect it was suggested he not displease his master.

29
General Comments / Re: October Surprise
« on: October 06, 2020, 04:48:51 PM »
Crazy rabbit tricks are for kids

All you need to fool the kids is a example of of a few ballots being mishandled or such to be proof of that all the safe guards are failing even if the safe guards discovered the errors.

It's choosing where to apply the law of when a few "bad apples"  represents the whole or not, however that game to choose which way the law is applied can only be played by the GOP

30
General Comments / Re: here comes the next ice age
« on: October 06, 2020, 04:28:13 PM »
As greenhouse gas traps more heat one can expect a change in the jet stream with airflow moving slower.
A observable sign of warming are slow moving weather events that linger over a area resulting in greater damage.

31
General Comments / Re: War on Cops
« on: October 06, 2020, 02:05:40 PM »
Those points are all fine, Seriati, but you may note that the purpose of my post was to show that there is some potential overlap between the political position of some of the protesters and some of the guidelines in the FBI's watchlist. That is all. I'm not making a statement about whether they are or are not actual terrorists, or should be called that; nor am I impugning 'constitutionalist' groups nor suggesting that they are all in fact bad.

True. Most are not incorrigibles, but all are idiots. They can have hearts of gold, yet still be idiot morons dancing to the disinformation they believe in. Some are cannon fodder and are thrown into the breech by activists who point them at their enemies and keep their own hands clean. We do all a disservice by pointing at the hoodwinked. We need to look hard at those causing the disinformation and the pain.

I wonder if you made that argument without any thought that just maybe you too may have at times played the useful idiot promoting disinformation and pain.
Of course everyone demonstrating are idiots.... but I wonder if you agreed on the issue the brought out demonstrators if you would label everyone of them idiots.

32
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: October 06, 2020, 01:19:04 PM »
Following the first debate, Biden extended his lead over Trump in the national popular vote polls by about 1%.  Now that we're seeing polls as of yesterday, we are beginning to see polls taken during Trump's hospital stay, and there is another ~0.5% bump for Biden.  I Imagine this will be transitory, but Biden's lead over Trump has now been extended by 1.7% in the national popular vote since the day before the debate.  in 538's average of national polls, Biden's lead currently stands at 8.8%.

I say transient, since the popular vote difference has been very steady in the high-6% / low-7% range for more than a month now, and I would expect the lead to stabilize and revert to around that base value within a week.  At the very least, it is another week where Trump did not narrow the margin.

I don't think 8% is going to be enough for Biden to win Win.
Unless Biden wins really big on election day Trump is going to declare himself the winner and their will be very little the DNC can do about it. 
Trump will call shotgun in a game that only he is allowed to call shotgun.

33
General Comments / Re: coronavirus
« on: October 06, 2020, 01:11:02 PM »
It appears that the overall mortality has not increased due to Coronavirus. Approximately 2,839,205 died nationwide in 2018. That number has not been reached and is under projection for all deaths plus Coronavirus for this year. When deaths due to murder, car crashes, and parachute failures are attributed to the Wuhan Flu, just what are we measuring?

"When deaths due to murder, car crashes, and parachute failures are attributed to the Wuhan Flu" Fake news

34
Trump tweets: COVID-19 less lethal than flu for most populations!!

Quote
Flu season is coming up! Many people every year, sometimes over 100,000, and despite the Vaccine, die from the Flu. Are we going to close down our Country? No, we have learned to live with it, just like we are learning to live with Covid, in most populations far less lethal!!!

Somebody has got to wrest his phone away from him until he's no longer hopped up on drugs.  The alternatives are 1) he actually believes the completely counter-factual things he is saying and is not high on steroids, or b) he is simply lying.

There is a C) he dons't care. he's not lying if what he says fits his narrative.

35
...Stand by for what?  A sign from God?  Or a sign from Trump?  (Or am I being redundant to Trumpists? ;) )

Has anyone mention that the Proud Boys is NOT a White Supremist organization, and has actually spoken out against them? Why would Trump be expected to know about them? And more importantly, why did Chris Wallace and Biden even bring them up?

Quote
The Proud Boys are a far-right, neo-fascist, and male-only organization that promotes and engages in political violence in the United States and Canada. While the group officially rejects racism, several members have been affiliated with white supremacy and leaders often share white nationalist content within the group
Walks like a duck, smells like a duck might be a duck. But sure like Trump the Proud Boys can create their own reality and everyone must buy in.

For someone as smart and informed as Trump, no one is smarter or has the best words, one might expect that he knows something about such things as Proud Boys. He knew about Antifa?
Maybe Wallace and Biden should have said the KKK but Trump doesn't know anything about them either. Of course Trump could have just denounced White Supremacy in general without the need for a specific name. Or maybe Trump needs to be infected before he learns anything. I was glad to hear yesterday that after 8 months he learned all about covid.  Stand by and follow me.

Trump always knows everything unless knowing something might mean he might need to take responsibility. 

36
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: October 01, 2020, 03:52:24 PM »
I don't think Trump is capable of talking policy. 2016 he had people feeding it to him however I doubt he listens to anyone anymore. Without 'lock her up', and 'build that wall' I don't think he has anything other then bluster. So I don't see a point of any more debates.

Let the vice Presidents do the debating. 

37
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: October 01, 2020, 02:49:05 PM »
What continues to astound me is that this is a 74 year old man we're all watching. And he really does react the same way a four year old would if you took away their toy.

There's no great mystery in explaining how and why Trump does what he does. The answer is simple. He's *spoiled*.

Trump has always been really good at creating his reality. Just odd how so many buy into to it as its not a attractive reality unless your Trump.

Trumps reaction to Biden suggesting he wasn't smart was telling. A very Id level reaction. If Biden team noticed it would be a good way of throwing Trump off in the next debate. If done well you might actually see Trump throw one of his tantrum's.

38
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: October 01, 2020, 09:16:13 AM »
...Trump has always been seen as a good promoter of his brand which is not the same as being considered a good businessman. At least not in my opinion and the number of business failures, reported business losses and with the upcoming 300 million due supports that assessment. But go ahead invest your savings with him.

I don't think you want to compare Trump and Biden's Children.

Yes, Trump has always been seen as not only a good and successful businessman, but a highly moral one. The stories to the opposite are similar to how Hillary started the Russia collusion lies against him to offset her exposure for her eMail felonies.

There is no comparison between Trump's successful and well-raised kids as opposed to either Hillary's or Biden's spoiled kids.

You need to get better informed or check your sources. Ask all the people who Trump has shafted in business how moral he is. Trump business practices have always been in question especially after 2008. 
Nice try at a diversion with Hillary.  Nothing Hillary did or didn't do makes Trump a moral or a good businessmen.   

If you define a Snake Oil salesman that is good at selling himself and living off the state a "good" businessman go ahead invest your savings in him. But don't be surprised, like many others before you, you find your self in court.

39
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: September 30, 2020, 05:08:24 PM »
When it comes to crappy politicians giving money to family,  Trump has little and nothing to talk about. The only thing saving him is his control of the Justice Department. He'll get his, whether it's in 2021 or 2025. Of course, he may well be banking on the issue of him being dead before the birds come home to roost. He is a fat seventy something after all.

Poor post. Trump has always been considered a good businessman, and his kids learned how to work and earn their way, rather than be carried, like Chelsea, or Hunter. Trump has everything to talk about. Just compare his successful children to them.

That's not true. Trump has always been seen as a good promoter of his brand which is not the same as being considered a good businessman. At least not in my opinion and the number of business failures, reported business losses and with the upcoming 300 million due supports that assessment. But go ahead invest your savings with him.

I don't think you want to compare Trump and Biden's Children. 

40
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: September 30, 2020, 03:22:04 PM »
Its not ironic he supports Trump, its ironic he somehow associates the destruction of his shop with Biden's "weakness" and Trump will "protect" people like him. It wouldn't be ironic if Trump wasn't the incumbent.

Thanks for clarifying that. Your comments make some sense in that case, but I think it's not too complicated to assume the shop owner blames the left in general, with Biden being (in his opinion) someone who would bow down to violent protesters. So while it's technically counterfactual that Biden was personally responsible, maybe the idea is more that he would have just let it happen whereas at least Trump tried to stop it. I get your belief that Trump himself exacerbated the violence, but if we're weighing Trump's response vs Biden's probable lack of a response, then it becomes a pragmatic evaluation of which would be more effective at protecting businesses, rather than an ironic misunderstanding on the part of the shop owner.

If we're weighing Trumps responses - which exasperated the situations, and Biden probable lack of a response -, based on WHAT?
Its this type of reasoning that's the problem. Based just on Biden's personalty he is much more likely to have responded in a way that would have calmed protesters then endorse riots. But sure Biden would "probably" do nothing, no not just nothing but change the laws to make looting the destruction of property legal.   It the Law and Order Trump, who consistently flaunts laws, who will protect them.

Its not ironic that the shop owner trusts the fire fighter that starts and or throws fuel on the fires its playing the useful idiot

41
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: September 30, 2020, 02:10:52 PM »
Your arguments are reasonable, forgiving the right of all accountability. If only the left could nominate a better candidate. No thought on if the right might want to stand behind a better candidate. "We can expect no better" so why seek it out? Not our fault.

You might want to go back and reread what I wrote, since this comment is already addressed above. The RNC did not support Trump or want him to be their candidate. Unless you mean what NH wrote, that they should have disowned him in this current election and ran a new Republican primary?

Not sure what I'm missing when I read over you comments. Perhaps its a disagreement on statements like "RNC did not support Trump or want him to be their candidate" Which is true at the start but were soon going all in. Who gets to be responsible for that?

NH said what I was trying to communicate better.  2020 no excuses or turning a blind eye. 

42
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: September 30, 2020, 01:29:58 PM »
If Trump wins the right will have only themselves to blame for standing by and supporting a man who says and does some very dangerous things providing support for organisations that should not be given that support.  Blame that on the left if you will but those who support Trump support what he stands for. All of it.

There is no need to assign blame to only one party in this, so you don't need to play the "if I blame the left then I'm supporting the right" game. The left has completely made their own bed on this, as they did in 2016. Actually it's worse now than then, because in Hillary's case I kind of got it: she was a legacy candidate that was being groomed back in Bill's Presidency. In Biden's case I was floored 6-7 years ago when they were floating the idea of running him against Hillary. My reaction was something like "why would anyone vote for him?" I was fairly convinced at that time that the polls showing strong support for him were baloney. But if you want to blame the right then go ahead, their pools of candidates have been pathetic for the last two Republican primaries as well. But do recall, in case you forgot, that the entire RNC *did* oppose Trump the entire way through the 2016 primary, and simply failed utterly to stop him winning the candidacy. Only after he was the general candidate were they forced into the dilemma of "supporting him" (i.e. trying to win the election) or, what, shilling for Hillary, their most hated arch-nemesis? At that point there is no value in any mention of 'supporting' him.

It was you that brought up blame I brought up responsibility. Your blaming Trumps election on the left while taking no responsibility for the support being given to what Trump represents and what he 'encouraging'.
Your arguments are reasonable, forgiving the right of all accountability. If only the left could nominate a better candidate. No thought on if the right might want to stand behind a better candidate. "We can expect no better" so why seek it out? Not our fault.

2016 you may be forgiven.  For 2020 those standing by Trump are making a statement about what they really stand for.
 

43
General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: September 30, 2020, 01:01:21 PM »
Very reasonable and forgiving coming from a place were you don't realistically expect better from a politician. Its a great way to avoid any personal responsibility about who one might support.
History is full of understanding people not demanding better and then when  "this is not going to end well" happens wonder how did this happen. Wasn't me

My advice on this issue has perennially been to never support a politician you have no respect for, or who is a bad candidate. It's others who are stuck on the tactical voting necessity where stopping the evil villain justifies voting for someone who shouldn't be President. That is what gets us where we are. As I mentioned in another thread, it just devolves into voting for R or D, and you might as well erase the candidate's name from the ballot. In any case, my point above wasn't to vote for Trump, it's what if Trump wins the left will have only themselves to blame for permitting a candidate like Biden to "represent" them.

If Trump wins the right will have only themselves to blame for standing by and supporting a man who says and does some very dangerous things providing support for organisations that should not be given that support.  Blame that on the left if you will but those who support Trump support what he stands for. All of it.


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General Comments / Re: Town halls and debates 2020
« on: September 30, 2020, 12:27:00 PM »
Then there was his refusal to denounce white supremacy.  He already has that vote locked in. Would denouncing violent actions by specific white supremacists depress that vote more than the votes he would make up elsewhere (I'm thinking of those suburban women again)?  Of course, it's possible that the zero sum game of denouncing one part of his coalition would be seen as backing down to the bogeyman of "violent blacks", which would more broadly affect his electoral support, presumably.

I think it's a bit partisan to ask why Trump wouldn't denounce people voting for him, when you could surely detect Biden likewise refusing to say anything negative - or even anything at all - about some of the radical voter base supporting him. Check out his 'answer' to the BLM question. Realistically one cannot anymore expect a politician to take sides against part of a coalition supporting them, it's all too power-oriented with no conscience on either side.

But seriously, this sounds like post hoc rationalization.  If he didn't respond, he would have been labeled 'weak'.  If he had verbally fought back in exactly the same way, he would have lost the high road of being the only sane person standing on the podium.

What in the world to do in response to Trump's tactics is exactly what he had to be prepped for. Unless we're willing to grant that Trump's 'debate' tactics are unbeatable, surely there would be some method of self-presentation and response that could make Trump look bad and you look good. But honestly Biden doesn't have it in him; he's neither charismatic, nor mentally sharp, nor dignified enough to look like Trump's bad behavior is rolling off him. He just sort of did nothing other than try to weakly repeat the mantras his team told him to say over and over (e.g. "He has no plan" and "you the American people should have a voice"). Yes, other like Jeb Bush failed miserably to parry Trump's attacks, but you'd think that in a contest of this magnitude they'd be, I dunno, bringing in xenolinguistics teams to find a way for Biden to speak through Trump's alien lingo.

Should future moderators have the power to turn off mics? Nothing short of that is going to stop Trump from being a bully and talking over everyone. Even then I wouldn't put it past him to walk over to Joe or the mod to yell into their mic.

It's not a terrible idea, given that 2 min uninterrupted responses was the goal. I think what Trump wanted was just a back-and-forth without moderation. Actually as someone who has disdain for 'parliamentary style debate' (which this wasn't really, but is in the same vein) I tend to side with the view that better discourse comes of a freeflowing back and forth. Of course that presupposes both parties are acting in good faith, so in Trump's case it might not be enough to allow him and his opponent to just go at it like Jerry Springer. It's too bad Trump kept interrupting, though, because at such times as he was waiting his turn he looked much better up there. If only someone would tell him to strategically interrupt only occasionally, rather than constantly and without cessation. The moderator would have certainly allowed some small amount of side-comments if they were constrained in degree, and in fact the moderator was quite amenable to sometimes allowing the candidates to pose the next question for their opponent.

Very reasonable and forgiving coming from a place were you don't realistically expect better from a politician. Its a great way to avoid any personal responsibility about who one might support.
History is full of understanding people not demanding better and then when  "this is not going to end well" happens wonder how did this happen. Wasn't me

Trump is saying and encouraging very dangerous things and any support even if half hearted, is support. We one stands is clear

"Stand back and stand by" Says the commander to his followers.   

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"I am urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully, because that's what has to happen," Trump said on Tuesday night. "I am urging them to do it."

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Proud boys, stand back and stand by.

I wonder if they will be wearing brown shirts.

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General Comments / Re: Who will be next to speak out about Trump?
« on: September 29, 2020, 02:50:38 PM »
I don't think Trump followers or the Trump Republican party cares about Trumps taxes. Its clear that values, morality, character don't matter. And one wonders about the rule of law unless the new rule of law is whatever Trump decides it is. He is the great decider after all.

In 2008 everyone knew the Trump was in trouble and that the only thing that saved him was his Brand which is all smoke and mirrors.
We all knew that all of Trumps deals were questionable.
We all knew that he was hiding something by hiding his tax records. I would have said ashamed vice hiding but Trump does not feel shame.

The reality is that nothing Trump did or does matters to his followers and if that means undermining their own values well they never matter that much either.

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General Comments / Re: Voting mechanisms
« on: September 29, 2020, 12:22:07 PM »
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RIGGED 2020 ELECTION: MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WILL BE PRINTED BY FOREIGN COUNTRIES, AND OTHERS. IT WILL BE THE SCANDAL OF OUR TIMES!

Isn't this type of statement a kind of rhetorical loaded question suggesting that If Trump wins the election wasn't it will not have been rigged but if he losses it is.

On this forum no one would be allowed have such a statement stand so I find it odd that some are defending and or dismissing it.  (Dismissing it by redirecting focus to the debate on Ballots which is a valid debate however a distraction from what Trump is actually saying.)

If you disagree with me its a rigged discussion.

Trump has set it up so that unless the Dem's win big on Election-day they will lose. I don't see how that would not end any trust in the checks and balances within the system. A system that requires trust to run.

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He neither explicitly, nor implicitly, suggested a vote should count twice. If you had not overstated your claim, I would not have rebutted it.

But you agree that he did explicitly suggest his supporter test the system in this way and as voting twice is illegal suggesting they should commit a crime? 

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General Comments / Re: here comes the next ice age
« on: September 24, 2020, 01:27:01 PM »
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He won't be able to answer that until the Orange God elaborates on his statement that "things are going to get cooler"

I suspect he was cheer-leading, protecting his followers from the truth and panicking. They apparently can't handle the truth at least not in their fearful leaders eyes

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General Comments / Re: Voting mechanisms
« on: September 24, 2020, 10:58:57 AM »
What else has Trump done this week:
1. He refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power (the question was "win, lose or draw..."). Yes, some people are unable to actually process those words whatsoever, but the majority of Republicans can undoubtedly understand what Trump has said on this topic, and I expect they are also privately horrified.  The question is whether they will do anything about it, or ignore  this complete betrayal of the country's foundational principles.
2. His campaign is now encouraging an "army" of people to intimidate voters at polling centres.  ("We need every able-bodied man and woman to join Army for Trump’s election security operation").  Thousands of untrained, passionate Trump acolytes, 'patrolling' polling stations (I can only guess which ones), and doing what, exactly?  The intimidation is not the goal, I expect.  The real goal will be the resulting violent conflagrations and the closing of polling stations.

That Republican's are not decrying this as loudly as everybody else is not at all surprising, but it is very, very sad.  The USA is effectively in its death throes, and the world is looking on with a mixture of pity and horror.

I think it begs the question. How are the Republicans defining democracy and rule of law? Is democracy something the membership wants anymore?

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