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Messages - rightleft22

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1
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 30, 2023, 05:24:23 PM »
I found the sires funny, odd, weird, moving at times and thought provoking.
I suspect some I know might be chose to be offended and tag the show as blasphemy as it is dangerous to think outside of what one has been taught to think.

2
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 30, 2023, 04:42:45 PM »
I dunno about rightleft22, but the person who left this thought experiment on the internet ended up getting a lot of grief.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko's_basilisk

reminded me of a serious I recently watched - Mrs. Davis

They meant a series, not a serious whatever, and I've looked up the television show. It definitely looks interesting but like so many others, may not be renewed. Standard warnings apply.

Freidan slip??? or not paying attention to spelling - The show was only intended to be a 1 season series.  The last episode was a conclusion and not a cliff hanger 

3
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 30, 2023, 04:21:56 PM »
I dunno about rightleft22, but the person who left this thought experiment on the internet ended up getting a lot of grief.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko's_basilisk

reminded me of a serious I recently watched - Mrs. Davis

4
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 30, 2023, 02:57:28 PM »
 :)

5
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 30, 2023, 11:09:48 AM »
I wonder how orthodox religious (in general) experience of life would change if the focus wasn't projected outward onto some Being to often mistaking the map for the Territory, the word God for G_d? Jesus becoming Jesus Christ points to the reality that the Ocean is also within the drop - as above so below, as below so above - on earth as it is in heaven.
Or the realization that we do not come into the world but out of it, to which we will return.

Just a slight change or perspective to the metaphors we live by maybe we could stop being afraid?

 

6
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 25, 2023, 12:35:32 PM »
When did disagreement in terms become gaslighting?

Maybe inevitable when in the binary 1 and 0 world view - by binary I mean either or digital world.

7
General Comments / Re: MAGA women and their husbands
« on: May 18, 2023, 09:38:54 AM »
Quote
They are representing the constituents’ views

But what qualifies as views?

Is this a reference to the Cyrus' reasoning?

The Cyrus narrative allows evangelicals to thread a difficult rhetorical needle. It allows them to see Trump as “their” candidate — a candidate who will effect God’s will that America become a truly Christian nation — without requiring Trump himself to manifest any Christian virtues. He is, like Cyrus, anointed by God and thus has divine legitimacy, but he has no obligation to live out Christian principles in his personal life.

Pay no attention to the man in front of the curtain, they imply. The real work is being done by his evangelical influencers behind the scenes


The Cyrus reasoning justifies anything and everything.... and in my opinion pure hubris's - As a person we condemn your values but will support and defend you regardless of what you do, (If not defend look away and pretend we don't see it.) even if you shoot a person on 5 Av in front of everyone. Because God is working through you to bring about a world that conforms to our views.... In no way can this back fire on us, we remain true to our views... which will in no way be corrupted when we defend actions we reject on Sunday. Their is no cognitive dissidence here, move along.  (because we never believed the *censored* we were selling anyway its all about the money money money)

I haven’t heard of the Sirus reasoning, but if you’re referring to the Cyrus that I think you’re referring to, I think we’re looking at something more like Nebuchadnezzar.

When you’re caught between Nebuchadnezzar and the Assyrians, go with Nebuchadnezzar, and pray to God for a Daniel

Sirus?
Declaring (after the fact?) Cyrus as 'anointed ' does not mean one must defend his values one finds troubling. If Trump is anointed by God and will lead you to the promised land, sure vote for him, no further justification needed, no reason to defend his values and such that go against ones views or pretend their not thier. (often seeming pavlovian - suggesting something else is going on) A wise man might stay silent on such matters.

You can't play with *censored* without coming out smelling of *censored*. Sure you can pretend you don't smell it, but everyone around you including ones some part of yourself knows you got some *censored* on you and smell some.

8
General Comments / Re: MAGA women and their husbands
« on: May 17, 2023, 02:12:10 PM »
Quote
They are representing the constituents’ views

But what qualifies as views?

Is this a reference to the Cyrus' reasoning?

The Cyrus narrative allows evangelicals to thread a difficult rhetorical needle. It allows them to see Trump as “their” candidate — a candidate who will effect God’s will that America become a truly Christian nation — without requiring Trump himself to manifest any Christian virtues. He is, like Cyrus, anointed by God and thus has divine legitimacy, but he has no obligation to live out Christian principles in his personal life.

Pay no attention to the man in front of the curtain, they imply. The real work is being done by his evangelical influencers behind the scenes


The Cyrus reasoning justifies anything and everything.... and in my opinion pure hubris's - As a person we condemn your values but will support and defend you regardless of what you do, (If not defend look away and pretend we don't see it.) even if you shoot a person on 5 Av in front of everyone. Because God is working through you to bring about a world that conforms to our views.... In no way can this back fire on us, we remain true to our views... which will in no way be corrupted when we defend actions we reject on Sunday. Their is no cognitive dissidence here, move along.  (because we never believed the *censored* we were selling anyway its all about the money money money)

9
My thoughts for what their worth is that the courts are the right place to decide if the guy was defending himself or went to far. Should we not let the process play out? .
Why is it acceptable to pretend we know what they we can't possibly know and rush to judgment. The world needs to take a chill pill

the defcon thing is funny or is it sad... I don't know anymore.

10
Days are problematic, we need to get ride of days then this idea of celebrating a segment of the population on a specific day won't be a problem. That includes birthdays, to assume birth is offensive

I do not believe for a moment that the woman driving by the sign was hurt or even upset by the sign, she chose to be offended and spread her ignorance for other reasons.  I don't believe anyone reading that sign was offended but only pretend to be.

11
don't know about neutering marriage but it seems to me a example of people not understanding language and looking for ways to be offended - the opposite of the rule of charity.

12
General Comments / Re: Question for progressives
« on: May 11, 2023, 05:31:36 PM »
Quote
The relevant question is whether self identified Progressives do the things that I describe.
Why do you think so?

Curious Tom are you denying that a form of intentional silencing isn't a tactic by some groups who would identify as 'left'  and or progressive's?   

13
General Comments / Re: Question for progressives
« on: May 11, 2023, 05:12:24 PM »
For me the label of progressive would not apply to a person who - "first response is always to try to restrict people from disagreeing with them"

Using the word without specific context paints all those who think themselves 'progressive' with the same brush, thus the push back.

The issue here is restriction people free speech, a real issue Liberal demographic needs to address IMO,  Still those outrage with how OLC uses hers often appears to be a attempt to silence her, so the issue ought to be a concern for everyone.

How can we have dialog and disagree if being disagreement is equated to being silenced?   (damn limited consciousness of the electronic world)

14
General Comments / Re: Question for progressives
« on: May 11, 2023, 03:24:03 PM »
I don't know I suspect when we look back the word like 'progressive' will return to its original intent as per the dictionary.

Those who using the word today with a different definition will likely be viewed through the lenses of the original definition. As such comments won't age will.

 - they were against change that progresses forward as a general principle. Or for 'woke' 'they' were against the notion  mindfulness. 

Not that I'm saying anyone here  is saying that, only that by redefining these terms for political argument today that more often obfuscate then points to specific issues probably won't age well.

15
General Comments / Re: Question for progressives
« on: May 11, 2023, 11:06:17 AM »
Googled Progressive Conservative as it used to be a thing. The Canadian PC party changed that name when it seems the word 'Progressive' definition started to change. 

Progressive - happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step - a conservative reasoned approach to change IMO, replaced by a notion of conservatism - as in to keep things from changing where the word Progressive = bad.   

16
General Comments / Re: E Jean Carrolls lawsuit
« on: May 10, 2023, 05:21:15 PM »
“ OK - I'm going to have to give you that the timing is almost certainly politically motivated. Hmmm... politicians doing politically motivated things who'd have thought that.”

Politicians managing one specific lawsuit from before it was filed—that’s a new level of dirty.

It means this whole farce was a show-trial not operating by the normal rules of law

Politically Trump was always gong to win with his followers even if he lost the case (and didn't really even put up a defense suggesting, if to muddy the waters, a political motivation... I mean the man loves to play the victim and his followers eat that up) And with every charge he faces his followers send him lots of cash) Win win for Trump its everyone else, including his followers that loses.

My take using the rule of charity and the razor thing - that in this case it could just be that Jean wanted her day in court, for her own reasons, went through the long and difficult process, and got it. 

17
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 09, 2023, 04:17:53 PM »
Tom doesn't believe in reason. As far as internet-strangers go, I have a great deal of affection for Tom. So it makes me all the more sad that I'm realizing he's varelse. Meaningful conversation between us is virtually impossible. He doesn't believe in truth. He believes in his intuitions, his feelings, and in the feelings of angry mobs he has decided to sympathize with on twitter. His ideas are brute facts; they do not have coherence. After you wash away the obfuscating paragraphs of text, his ideas distill down to "I like X" and "I don't like Y" and nothing more.

That is quite the paragraph to unpack. It assumes you can read minds and that it is absurd for a person to believe what they believe. On the one hand Tom only believes in his subjective experience while having the audacity to require objective facts (which are seldom supplied) if you are to change his thinking on what is believed.

If I had made such a statement  I might take some time to take it away and examine it if any of the 'reasoning' could be applied to me and if I was projecting in anyway.
The statement 'His ideas are brute facts'  after the 'I like X...' statement in such a light could be interpreted as Tom facts are brutal to what I like....

18
General Comments / Re: Question for progressives
« on: May 09, 2023, 01:25:54 PM »
Because progressives, liberals, Democrats, socialists, the Woke, the Left, libitards, un-American and communists are all "evolving" terms.  They mean whatever the person wants them to mean at that given moment.

So there is no way to know when someone bad-mouths Progressives that the doesn't also mean Liberals, or Communists, or the Left, or whatever.  It is usually a safe bet that he means everyone who disagrees with anything he believes. :)

It certainty makes dialog difficult... I wonder lately if that isn't the intention because if it is, its very effective. Would it qualify as a form or gaslighting?

19
General Comments / Re: Stuart Parker’s “March of Grotesques”
« on: May 04, 2023, 06:05:53 PM »
Quote
I don't view my angst as being concerned not phobic and resent that it is often implied that it is and those pretending that their not calling it phobic

that made no sense.

Try again: I don't see myself as phobic, just concerned we don't fully understand the consequences and pressures were placing on our children. I don't think anyone really knows to which angst is a valid response. That said, angst ought not be a hindrance to working a way forward.

It is troubling when such angst is labeled as phobic and frustrating when some deny that such labeling is happening with the intent to silence.   

20
General Comments / Re: Stuart Parker’s “March of Grotesques”
« on: May 04, 2023, 05:17:39 PM »
It's the idea that we need to worry about the extremes of the "Right" and "Left" that's the problem. Or even that there is, in this scenario (and many others), "Right" and "Left" positions on a single axis. That kind of reductive partisanship is exploited for political points, but isn't remotely ideologically sturdy.

I get that (I think) but its difficult to talk about in other whys when the angst is being exploited. Perhaps I could have said 'Right and Left in name only' as I agree its does not lie on a single axis. all I mean by that is that the intent to silence is neither a conservative or liberal value (there are other tribes) - Where the leadership of both are not addressing the silencing constructively and often seem to pretend it isn't happening. (as you also sometimes appear to be)

How do we then constructively talk about such issues if I do worry about what I experience as extreme voices.

I've been looking at where my angst as it concerns trans dialog comes from - Its from being a stupid kid - Puberty was a, as I view it in hindsight a negative defining experience for me. And that didn't include question of biological gender identity though it did include notions of what it meant to be a man and sex which was implied to be sin - yeah all that stuff.  As such I can't imagine a child being able to handle the added pressure of todays notion of gender and identity. Just as I can't  imagine a child making a good tattoo decision...   

This is where my angst originates. I don't think children are capable of knowing much of anything as it comes to identity. Maybe todays kids are smarter and more capable when I was or the kids I grew up with. And don't get me wrong I'm glad kids experience identity issues are getting a voice and support... I just.... glad I didn't have the added pressure if anyone even implied and added such a questioning to me on identity while I was going through those very difficult years.

I don't view my angst as being concerned not phobic and resent that it is often implied that it is and those pretending that their not calling it phobic 


   

21
General Comments / Re: Stuart Parker’s “March of Grotesques”
« on: May 04, 2023, 04:34:15 PM »
I pretty strongly resent the idea that grownups can be found "in the middle." To elaborate: if you create the impression that there are unreasonable "extremists" at both ends, that allows you to push the Overton Window pretty much anywhere you find convenient.

Had to google Overton Window. to help me clarify are you saying that I am only imagining the attempt to silence by what I think is a small but loud segment of the population on both the right and left?

Its possible that that isn't happening intentionally but I can tell you I feel it is happening and it feels intentional.

I think this is where Pete gets upset as it feels like your rejecting what I'm experiencing out of hand, though I don't think that is your intent


I only hope there are "grownups" somewhere - those with the skills to communicate effectively with those they disagree and aim of coming to reasoned policy. 

22
General Comments / Re: E Jean Carrolls lawsuit
« on: May 04, 2023, 04:17:33 PM »
Quote
“Since what Trump thinks is irrelevant to whether he sexually assaulted someone or not,”

Curious why do you think the above was something Wayward was pretending that you said?  I didn't read his comments that way.

Rereading the thread and it does seem that, though not directly stated by those sort of defending Trump that what he thinks (and implied does), doesn't matter to those that one might imagine it ought to matter if their being honest with thier other stated values.

23
General Comments / Re: Stuart Parker’s “March of Grotesques”
« on: May 04, 2023, 04:08:54 PM »
Still is feels at times as if the angst is being quashed into silence and any policy that does not give voice to that angst is gong to feel forced.
I have no solution to that catch 22 other then honest open debate what many reasonable people with angst don't feel is being allowed to happen. 

Still If on the other side of the arguments of the grotesque I wouldn't want to open up that dialog to them either... - from my perspective both the 'conservatives and progressive's in name only' want to science dialog and enforce terms of language.

My hope is that maybe if we can acknowledge that that is happening as a tactic by both extremes the grown ups in the middle can have a real dialog in creating policy vice giving in to the minority voices on the extremes ends (the ends actually meet as both are creating the enemy they wish to overcome)

That is what I assume is actually happening behind the rhetoric.

24
General Comments / Re: Stuart Parker’s “March of Grotesques”
« on: May 04, 2023, 03:34:10 PM »
I find the use of the term 'Gender Orthodoxy' confusing  - If we are to stand firm against the Gender Orthodoxy and come up with tactics that will push it back — tactics that will reclaim women’s spaces, children’s safety, even our own language

I assumed Orthodoxy would represent those that resist change to the notion of gender when the article is concerned with is a alternative/new orthodoxly being forced. (implying  it is not yet and so not current orthodoxly) A play on language were in the same sentence to reclaim language. (as if language was a objective object that can be held, smelled. tasted....)

I don't think anyone here doesn't acknowledge that a change to how we relate to gender, biologic and phycological is taking place and that for some it will feel as if they are being forced to accept something that hasn't been well thought out or argued.

I for one am not wise enough to discern the impact changes in definitions and such would bring about.  My feeling is that few are and that whatever anyone thinks would happen won't be what happens. 

Still, conservative by nature, such changes do appear to becoming 'thrown at us' -  one change after another without a chance to breath and take it in, let alone adapt, so I also understand the angst these pushes for change are bringing.   

I feel such angst can be acknowledged without painting anyone feeling that angst as phobic (which I would argue is happening as a intentional tactic by some 'progressives in name only') 

 

25
General Comments / Re: E Jean Carrolls lawsuit
« on: May 04, 2023, 12:36:22 PM »
Quote
certain people here based on their endless ability to contort facts, and reason to fit their politics

At some level, everyone does this - we see the world as we are - there is always some cognitive distortion and bias to force the "world" to conform to how we need it to be. The trick is developing the skills to notice... something I don't think we teach anymore (no space for it in the virtual social media linear either or consciousness)

The worst though are the ones that do it intentionally in order to manipulate - the label that comes to mind a "Tucker Carlson".

I think must of those on this site fall into the first category but perhaps I'm being naïve   

26
General Comments / Re: E Jean Carrolls lawsuit
« on: May 04, 2023, 11:22:07 AM »
Quote
Obviously, he’s saying they don’t object, yell. He takes that as consent.


That type of assumption can't be defense and it assumes the response to unwanted contact is fight  ignoring the more likely response of freeze (shock, fear)
I learned that in the 80's so - no excuse.

27
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 04, 2023, 10:40:53 AM »
If we're going to divide prison populations up by their ability to inflict physical harm, surely that should be the standard?

Currently we divide prison populations by biological gender and judgment on harm. The question put forth is should the biological gender factor be removed from that equation???

In general policy I would say no, on a individual request for transfer I would think the judgment of harm could be a standard. I assume here that harm is not limited to only physical harm but all its nuances in which case biology - ability, strength, mental... -  biological factors that are not dependent on biological gender (having a penis or not). 

What is required then is not a All or Nothing policy but one in which those chosen to deal with the individual request are skilled at discernment. 

The issue which I think Pete points out is that dialog when biology and biological gender is needed for such discernment is silenced out of the gate as being labeled transphobic and therefore not allowed. 
This demand of silence comes from a small but loud segment on the left to which the leaders of the left don't confront for a verity of reasons.  Most people seen to 'know' this but are pretending not to know it to protect the tribe (of course the same thing is happening on the right if differently).

Instead of our leaders sitting down and working on the skills of discernment handling such issues need, they are pretending not to know what they know instead focused on this new social virtual world, that few understand and overly dependent on algorithms mistaken for thinking/reasoning, where the voices of a minority have a greater influence then they should be given.

Have I followed the arguments?

28
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 03, 2023, 05:26:19 PM »
Quote
How about  dicked criminals can’t use a post conviction pronoun change as the basis of lowering their security threat level, Tom?
I don't think the presence or absence of a penis should be the deciding factor there, frankly, as the presence or absence of a penis isn't actually the source of danger.

I don't know. on a individual by individual basses I would assume biological gender and type of crime be have the most weight on a decision 

29
General Comments / Re: Debt Limit Standoff
« on: May 03, 2023, 04:20:30 PM »
Trump increased the deficit every year he was in office, Biden and Obama did the opposite. Now if you care about deficit spending which party is better to vote for?

I honestly don't know.

What's holding you back? How many years of data do you need? We're pushing largely 40+ years of evidence that suggest the opposite of what Republicans say they care about. Bush largely increased the deficit every year he was in office as well. Clinton the opposite. Reagan skyrocketed the deficit. Which party is for tax cuts that don't have to be offset by anything because "they'll pay for themselves"? Which party usually includes spending offsets or some form of tax increase to pay for their programs in bills?

With the notion of small government many may be surprised that government gets bigger under the GOP. It seems to keep things as they were and or from changing requires more government envolvment  then change (in general - freedom from - freedom to)

30
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 03, 2023, 04:07:00 PM »
Quote
For no other reason than he want to use they them pronouns, sometimes.
I would hope that such cases the request to move would be denied

I don't find the specific issue helpful in the over all trans debate though it does point out issues in the prison complex. In that regard it. appears that each case/request is addressed individually so that's something.   

31
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: May 03, 2023, 03:28:00 PM »
I imagine the list of ways in which the prison industrial complex violates the rules about treating prisoners of war is quite long and comprehensive.

I’ve listed some over the years. I told you about my client who is tortured into signing away his rights to be deported. About the one who is kept nine months in solitary over a cell phone.

But locking a woman in a cell with a male known sexual predator is the worst violation of human rights that I’ve seen, but everyone wants to pretend it’s OK, because this time it’s Progressive is doing it.

I looked for the story and couldn't find it
Do we have numbers on how often this happens, happened and if when it happened nothing was done about it, like moving the woman into another cell?

How accurate is the statement that 'everyone' pretending its Ok?

I have quite a few concerns about the prison system. All these things we have to care about and so little to no influence  to do anything about them. Then I supect as ti come to prison most people regardless of tribe cares that much. Other then a means to score points and remain righteously angary. ( that includes all tribes)

Still we should be able to talk about such issues. I'll go on record the specific situation should not be allowed to happen however should not be used as a antidote to  prove ones opinion on the bigger issues involved.

32
General Comments / Re: The GOP war on women continues
« on: May 03, 2023, 09:24:45 AM »
Marriage I think has multiple levels. that between two people, two people and thier families, two people and thier G_d and two people and the laws of the state.
There is a tendency to assume the state responsibility if for all those levels when its concerns is, or ought to be, only with the legal issues assoicated with marriage.
To use the state to enforce the other levels of marriage undermines those other levels.   


33
General Comments / Re: E Jean Carrolls lawsuit
« on: May 01, 2023, 12:23:08 PM »
watched a show over the weekend taking place in the 1960's. One of the story lines was a wife who was beaten and raped by her husband. the law at the time sided with the husband.

A quick google and Prior to the 1970s, marital rape was legal in every US state and this took 20 years to address.
The 70's were not that long ago and in the context of the time I grew up in a community that would not have questions having those laws changed... though they did come around... sort of...

Things change and stay the same. We know better now, but we also don't

34
General Comments / Re: What is Woke Anyway?
« on: May 01, 2023, 10:07:44 AM »
You know how in any conversation on client change taking place on a day when its cold out that their is always that guy who makes the statement something like its cold out were is this warming ha ha ha I'm so clever.

A person identifying themselves as woke seem to be full of themselves (a woke person would not say they are woke they would just be it -  The buddha on gaining enlightenment (awaking) often said that he attained nothing. Everyone already has It they just don't realize it)

On the other hind like 'that guy' in the climate change conversation, a person using woke to identify a group in derogatory manner seems, to me, to have it reflect badly back on the person using the word. Ha ha look at those dumb those 'woke' people are...  sort of implying that they prefer the state of ignorance.

Perhaps why as it comes to awakening enlightenment the wise man says nothing.

I personally stay away from the word.

I agree, generally with what you’re saying. But in the conversation titled “what is woke anyway”, to come out and shame folks who gave the “wrong answer” that fits the way that most of the population uses the word, is a move that only the Woke would apply. Those arguing for an exclusively woke. Definition of the word woke, are NOT being s Haiti e to oppression.😂

Curious did you read my comment as shaming folks who gave the wrong answer?  I guess I was making a general negative statement on those those that use the word as a label of virtue identity and those that use it as a term a derision without much seeming thought as to the issue behind the label. 

The rule of charity suggest I ought to assume definition 2 though I think definition 3 is how the word is being use today. Which may be why I don't hear those I might consider 'work' (2) using it (not that I ever heard them using it).

Still I stand by my conclusion to avoid the word


35
General Comments / Re: The Sapiosexual Manifesto
« on: April 27, 2023, 06:48:13 PM »
Never heard that word before

WTF why can't people just be attracted to who they are attracted to without the need for a 'either or' labeling. Oh he's only attracted to smart people who engage him. He's such a elitist how dare he not be attracted to people that don't engage him intellectually. And how dare he not have any lustful thoughts for the "smart" people that he is attracted to and want to have sex with them. 

When Attraction = desire to process where sex = procession.   

That said any individual using such a word to describe themselves deserves to be alone.

We (society in general) need to rethink this whole notion of 'identity' as being something other then a construct that only has the meaning given it.

Maybe investigate Buddhism teachings that you are not that and most certainly you are not a word.

36
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: April 27, 2023, 06:33:30 PM »
Quote
ONE of you, but only one, ACTS AS IF HE BELIEVES THAT progressivism MIGHT compatible with safeguarding children from Predators.
It's precisely this OFFENSIVE TRUTH that I JUST PROVED BY MY BEHAVIOR, Pete.

better?

RL; I would it be more clear if I emphasized the present tense in the above. I believe and hope that in his heart of hearts, Tom thinks that progressivism might be compatible with safeguarded kids in the far future, when all of the evil people who “think of the children” are gaslit into silence or into the organ banks. It’s just at the present time that he demands that prevention of CSA & prison rape are acceptable collateral damage in the efforts to root out what he manages to call, with a straight face, “fascism.”

Thanks I see where your disagreement with Tom is coming from. (It isn't clear to me that Tom is saying those things, at least how you worded them)
 
Being gaslit into silence is a real problem that one senses 'out of the corner of the eye', but damn hard to communicate and engage with.

37
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: April 27, 2023, 06:04:37 PM »
Quote
ONE of you, but only one, thinks progressivism is compatible with safeguarding children from Predators.

I'm not able to parse that sentence as I no longer know how to define progressivism.

the general definition seems to be - Progressivism holds that it is possible to improve human societies through political action. As a political movement, progressivism seeks to advance the human condition through social reform based on purported advancements in science, technology, economic development, and social organization. As such I've heard it applied to conservative and liberals

But I don't think that's how were applying the word here... which feels like a sub group of far left progressive progressives? to which your arguing ideals will harm children even if they imagine they are protecting them.. To which I think you have made a case for with regards to specific progressive progressive thinking. But those arguments get lost with statements like 'progressives' in in general do not want to safeguard children and are out to intentionally and in secret cabal harm them?   Such secret intent would qualify for the word evil but proving it, I don't know how one would go about that

38
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: April 27, 2023, 05:16:32 PM »
Quote
Actually protecting children from systematic breaches in safety protocols would cut down on child sex trafficking & the organs market that Progressives depend on

Actually protecting children from systematic breaches in safety protocols would cut down on child sex trafficking & the organs market - to which I agree we need to protect our children from predator's but then imply that its 'Progressives',  whoever they are,  don't want to protect children implying they profit in the harm in ways??

Then we argue what the word Progressive means and who belongs in that category... I have no idea, maybe the world really only exists in the twitter-verse  and my experience of reality and the general goodness of most people I have come across  is naïve.

But then who is gaslighting who....

39
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: April 27, 2023, 05:08:17 PM »
F💣 conservatives. Out of 30 people that I quoted and alluded to, and linked you to over the past two weeks, only one of them even identifies as a conservative, and she works with Radfems and postop trans women prisoners to stop an end flood of convicted predators that only recently decided to identify as female so they can get out more victims.

Call Tom wants to pretend that I’m a conservative, because it helps keep the peace with his friends

Perhaps the issues is the statements like  "stop an end flood of convicted predators" as its not clear what 'flood' means or how reliable the evidence your providing is.
You some times appear to take any question of your sources being reliable as a attempt at gas lighting? could be wrong but that how it often reads.

It also often reads as if your projecting quite a bit into Tom's replies  perhaps taking what Tom may have said in another thread or other time I'm unaware of and applying it in this threads? argument?

I have no knowledge of a flood of convicted predators pretending to identify as trans in order to expand thier victims pool and getting away with it. Seems like a lot of work to me when. I would also assume that current laws would handle such predators once found out.

Perhaps I'm not following the argument. 

What I'm reading is a rejection of how the whole is being painted based on stories indicating wrong doing and then quantifying those stories as being flood of evidence. then using that evidence   to argue that the whole should not be allowed to participate openly in society. Drag queen = former convicted sexual predator, pretending to be trans in order to continue being a predator and getting away from prosecution. To protect the children and woman we need to restrict the whole. Verses the argument that the Law must be applied equally on a case by case to all individuals, the law blind to how the individual dress or identify.

My opinion for the little it is worth or will change things is that any sexual predator should be held accountable by the law full stop. If that is not happing then we have a problem with the law and how its being applied.  I don't see the need for using labels that confuse the issue.

40
General Comments / Re: What is Woke Anyway?
« on: April 27, 2023, 12:24:05 PM »
 ;) of course 'Not asleep' is also a metaphor

Personally I think their are better ways to communicate then use metaphors in way you can't be sure the receiver will hear them. For example if you have a issue with a issue a group it putting forward speak on the issue. labeling the group as woke or what ever is unhelpful. Personally I'm slightly embarrassed for anyone who uses the word woke. 

Interesting book - Metaphors We Live By.  How a metaphor is experienced greatly depends if the person desires a objective meaning in which a metaphor like marriage can only mean one thing. A subjective meaning OR a experienced meaning. 

The problem is everyone assumes the other is speaking the same language when they often are not, only they don't realize it and so become frustrated or imagine they are being gas lit. Gas Lit another interesting metaphor

41
General Comments / Re: What is Woke Anyway?
« on: April 27, 2023, 11:16:51 AM »
You know how in any conversation on client change taking place on a day when its cold out that their is always that guy who makes the statement something like its cold out were is this warming ha ha ha I'm so clever.

A person identifying themselves as woke seem to be full of themselves (a woke person would not say they are woke they would just be it -  The buddha on gaining enlightenment (awaking) often said that he attained nothing. Everyone already has It they just don't realize it)

On the other hind like 'that guy' in the climate change conversation, a person using woke to identify a group in derogatory manner seems, to me, to have it reflect badly back on the person using the word. Ha ha look at those dumb those 'woke' people are...  sort of implying that they prefer the state of ignorance.

Perhaps why as it comes to awakening enlightenment the wise man says nothing.

I personally stay away from the word. 

42
General Comments / Re: The End of Gender
« on: April 25, 2023, 03:27:30 PM »
Quote
Progressives are the champagne versions of Fisters. ✊ the people of the fist, those to whom all is power, and all power comes from the muzzle of a gun, are the latter day versions of the Sophists, the folks, his students made, Socrates  drink poison.
I would personally prefer that we not accept Pete's attempted redefinition of the word "Progressive," here, or his intended categorization, as it will make the term substantially less useful.


I personally didn't read that as a attempt to establish definition without discussion. It is clearly stated as a preference... to which I agree as in Pete is trying to redefine words which feels passive aggressive as in that to engage in the debate one is accepting the new language. Something I think (may be wrong) Pete accuses his 'progressives' of being the masters of? I disagree when both  the extreme left and right does it so to be consistent can't accept Pete's definition or use of the word, as I understand it. 

I am no way clever enough to engage in this debate, I have my thoughts on the notion of identity on the personal level (its a waist of ones time)

43
General Comments / Re: The End of Gender
« on: April 25, 2023, 12:58:17 PM »
Quote
Progressive have used on constitutional language since 1988.

Not sure I follow?
Philosophy and the notion of Language has been at odds forever. The five senses assumes it can label, name, categorize and so set in stone realty, continuously surprised that it can't.
The conservatives or Liberal approached to language may be different but it seems to me both make the same errors of assumption.

That we can communicate at all with one another is amazing. The real issue of course is that in general no one is really listening to the other (there is no other)   

44
General Comments / Re: The End of Gender
« on: April 25, 2023, 12:03:16 PM »
I suspect in general that society has lost its ability's to relate to metaphor - mistaking the metaphor for the what it points towards.  (most metaphors are endogenous even when they are assoicated with male or female attributes the tend to point past biological gender)

Over the years more inferences has been placed on the notion that if you look good you feel good, to change how one feels about themselves not from the inside out but the outside in. Cleary much of the messaging of a consumerist society (not a conspiracy unless it is for the fiction of continuous economic growth without regard to recourses) 

I often wonder how our children are internalizing such messaging

Origin of notion - To Look the Part
The exact origin of this expression is unclear. However, digital records seem to show that it originated in the early-1800s.
It seems probable that it comes from the theater. Actors must have the right look for their character. Directors choose the right person based on how well he or she will fit the role, or in other words, the part.


I can't imagine being a child growing up with todays access to 'information' and our consumerist messaging.

45
General Comments / Re: The End of Gender
« on: April 25, 2023, 11:46:04 AM »
Topic reminded me of 'The Forever War' by Joe Haldeman

Interesting how the word 'Gender' itself is undergoing transition. Using the word without context is becoming confusing

46
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: April 24, 2023, 05:51:59 PM »
For reference

Quote
The term “transgender” refers to a person whose sex assigned at birth (i.e. the sex assigned at birth, usually based on external genitalia) does not align their gender identity (i.e., one’s psychological sense of their gender). Some people who are transgender will experience “gender dysphoria,” which refers to psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one’s sex assigned at birth and one’s gender identity. Though gender dysphoria often begins in childhood, some people may not experience it until after puberty or much later.

People who are transgender may pursue multiple domains of gender affirmation, including social affirmation (e.g., changing one’s name and pronouns), legal affirmation (e.g., changing gender markers on one’s government-issued documents), medical affirmation (e.g., pubertal suppression or gender-affirming hormones), and/or surgical affirmation (e.g., vaginoplasty, facial feminization surgery, breast augmentation, masculine chest reconstruction, etc.). Of note, not all people who are transgender will desire all domains of gender affirmation, as these are highly personal and individual decisions.

It is important to note that gender identity is different from gender expression. Whereas gender identity refers to one’s psychological sense of their gender, gender expression refers to the way in which one presents to the world in a gendered way. For example, in much of the U.S., wearing a dress is considered a “feminine” gender expression, and wearing a tuxedo is considered a “masculine” gender expression. Such expectations are culturally defined and vary across time and culture. One’s gender expression does not necessarily align with their gender identity. Diverse gender expressions, much like diverse gender identities, are not indications of a mental disorder.

Gender identity is also different from sexual orientation. Sexual orientation refers to the types of people towards which one is sexually attracted. As with people who are cisgender (people whose sex assigned at birth aligns with their gender identity), people who are transgender have a diverse range of sexual orientations.

Diagnosis
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-5-TR)1 provides for one overarching diagnosis of gender dysphoria with separate specific criteria for children and for adolescents and adults.

The DSM-5-TR defines gender dysphoria in adolescents and adults as a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and their assigned gender, lasting at least 6 months, as manifested by at least two of the following:

A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (or in young adolescents, the anticipated secondary sex characteristics)
A strong desire to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics because of a marked incongruence with one’s experienced/expressed gender (or in young adolescents, a desire to prevent the development of the anticipated secondary sex characteristics)
A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender
A strong desire to be of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
A strong desire to be treated as the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
A strong conviction that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
In order to meet criteria for the diagnosis, the condition must also be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

The DSM-5-TR defines gender dysphoria in children as a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, lasting at least 6 months, as manifested by at least six of the following (one of which must be the first criterion):

A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical feminine clothing
A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play
A strong preference for the toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender
A strong preference for playmates of the other gender
In boys (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically masculine toys, games, and activities and a strong avoidance of rough-and-tumble play; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically feminine toys, games, and activities
A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy
A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender

As with the diagnostic criteria for adolescents and adults, the condition must also be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

I assume this is the criteria being referred to.

I have no opinion as it seems to me a subject that requires some study

47
General Comments / Re: Fox Dominion lawsuit
« on: April 24, 2023, 05:43:07 PM »
Quote
Does Tucker Carlson's firing endanger free Speech? Watch the Dershow live in 10 MINUTES on Rumble and Youtube. Ask live questions on Youtube and I may answer some of them.

https://rumble.com/v2k6j5s-does-tucker-carlsons-firing-endanger-free-speech.html

No

48
General Comments / Re: Fox Dominion lawsuit
« on: April 24, 2023, 05:42:48 PM »
Given that you're asserting that Aris just called for your murder despite saying no such thing, Pete, I think you might be calling a kettle black.

That’s what Aunty fascists mean when they say fascist. It’s identifying somebody for violence. The woke pseudoleft virtually never uses the term for any other reason. They certainly don’t mean what the original fascists meant by the word. It means nothing more nor less than group of people cleared for violence, including radical feminist that won’t figuratively suck girl cock, MAGA, unwoke socialists such as  wsws.org & my friend Stuart Parker. Gays & Lesbians that repudiate the Stonewall organization.

Fascist is a kill fatwa like blasphemer.

What does a fascist (not calling anyone on the form a fascist) mean when they label other groups? If a fascist calls a group... say socialists what are they really calling for?

Begging the questions
How good are we at reading others peoples minds?
What is the point of labels?
When does the bad apple represent the whole and when is it just the bad apple? (depends on the point you want to make).


49
General Comments / Re: Cutting the Judas cradle out of the LGB flag
« on: April 24, 2023, 05:21:12 PM »
Their is a tendency to create the things that we fear more so then what we hope for... then maybe we secretly hope for what we fear. Were so very simple complex creatures

What is it TS Eliot said "Wait with out hope, For hope would be hope for the wrong thing"  Or as the eastern wisdom tradition suggests that to hope is also to fear (such hope is to hope for the wrong thing.) so better to be hopeless which is not the same as to despair.


50
General Comments / Re: Fox Dominion lawsuit
« on: April 24, 2023, 03:22:45 PM »
Scary as Tucker  doesn't believe in most of the things he goes on about and I doubt very much he has the ability's  to lead. His whole entertainment stick (he sees himself as a entertainer not a news person) is asking rhetorical questions that then become news. Why does  object A cast a shadow when the suns light hits it??? What is object A trying to hide.

Breaking news Object A is hiding the truth about the election. = fact

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