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Messages - D.W.

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General Comments / Re: Racism or rational response to trespassing
« on: April 18, 2018, 01:06:30 PM »
Wayward Son, let me test my understanding here.
  • The policy is not racist.
  • It's still a proxy war that is justified in the greater crusade against racism?

Isn't there enough actual racism and racists in the country to combat?  Are the battles left too difficult, when they must be waged against unrepentant racists?  Is the only progress to be made among those capable of empathy and shame (or just good business sense) to accept the role of symbolic repentant?

General Comments / Re: Racism or rational response to trespassing
« on: April 18, 2018, 08:58:12 AM »
So it sounded like they already had locked restrooms requiring a code.  People tend to hang out for extended stays at Starbucks due in part to their WiFi access as well.  Seems to me the whole thing is solvable by technology that could probably be paid for similar amounts to closing up shop nation wide for a day.  (if that day wasn't also a national holiday...)

On each receipt you print a QR code or pin number.  That code would be linked to both the toilet lock and the WiFi.  Set to expire after (however much time corp. determines is acceptable). 

Take the policy enforcement out of the hands of the employees.  If people want to lounge all day for free, go to the public library.  Many even have a cafe now...

General Comments / Re: Racism or rational response to trespassing
« on: April 17, 2018, 04:03:38 PM »
What I want to know is if the employee was charged for improper use of 911?

What evidence is there that they called 911 rather than the police dispatch number?
yossarian22c mentioned it.  Perhaps that was just shorthand for calling the police rather than what happened? 

General Comments / Re: Racism or rational response to trespassing
« on: April 17, 2018, 12:39:32 PM »
What I want to know is if the employee was charged for improper use of 911?

General Comments / Re: Facebook neutrality
« on: April 12, 2018, 05:04:18 PM »
We recognize that nicotine is problematic
Do you believe the tobacco industry is so heavily regulated (now) because we realized nicotine is problematic?  What of caffeine?  Alcohol? 

I don't think addiction matters a great deal to our society.  Continuing harm (or potential death) that is caused by something addictive?  That we try to stop.  Some of the time... and if the law makers see benefits in protecting those affected.  :( 

General Comments / Re: Facebook neutrality
« on: April 12, 2018, 11:02:18 AM »
do you feel the same way about FB’s deliberate throttling of Conservative content?
given that FB has not expressly told conservatives that they are welcome to have accounts but that they will be politically suppressed in connection with their posts and reading activities how there wouldn't be some form of false advertisement liability. 
Umm, what did I miss?  Are you refering to paid adds?  User posts?  Both?

Was the 2nd day of testimony a lot more interesting than the 1st?  I've only heard a few snippets from that so far.

General Comments / Re: House Closes Investigation
« on: April 06, 2018, 09:05:24 AM »
That, and you should literally, never read "literally" literally on the interweb.  :)

General Comments / Re: Stormy Daniels and the Surreal Reality
« on: April 06, 2018, 09:03:02 AM »
I'd almost bet on a Democratic House and a Republican Senate right now except things are so in flux right now it would be an insane bet to make when the final candidates are unknown.
After last election cycle, I don't think I'd bet on politics, ever.  :P

General Comments / Re: Stormy Daniels and the Surreal Reality
« on: April 05, 2018, 04:43:58 PM »
I think the only reason I care about an infidelity is whether it represents a betrayal or if it could leave the politician compromised by blackmail.
Or, you know, taken out before the secret service could have a chance to stop it.  :P

General Comments / Re: Stormy Daniels and the Surreal Reality
« on: April 05, 2018, 09:18:01 AM »
Ok my lines in the sand will be
<This is where I would find a good Kang and Kodo gif of them laughing at you to insert>

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 04, 2018, 08:56:53 AM »
It's basically a thing among the elderly.
I must be ALMOST old then.  ;)

I feel like it SHOULD be some more honest version of national news outlets... but I still don't tune in.

Or maybe I'm already old and just ended up in the NPR alarm clock radio / commute pool.  :P

Pffft, the same could be said for modern nuclear arsenals.  Why do you hate progress?  Are you an alien sympathizer? 

Maybe we can turn it into some sort of death star super weapon and vent the heat faster than that!   Surely we can persuade Trump such a "star wars" weapon is a sound defense expenditure.   8)

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 03, 2018, 11:35:59 AM »
You ARE taking this the wrong way Seriati.  You assume my being creeped out is a partisan reaction.  It’s not.  You think I don’t worry about billionaire tech giants on “the left” spending money to have their words come out of other people’s mouths (or pop up on their social media feeds)?  I do.

My gripe here is seeing this much power being wielded directly by a single shot caller.  It was reinforced by seeing so many speakers parrot the EXACT script.  That video was objectively “creepy”.  (As an aside, THAT video was in part propaganda.  It was intended to look creepy by the editor…)  Reading that X stations all read this script.. would likely not have provoked the same visceral response in me.

My gripe is that the ridiculously wealthy aren’t (always) content to purchase a large megaphone, but some are willing to purchase other people to parrot them.  They are attempting to BUY credibility. 

All systems can be abused.  The more people in the chain the more likely those abuses can be prevented, or that the “conspiracy” falls apart.  The fewer moving pieces from Agenda to Execution, the more danger we are in.

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 03, 2018, 09:47:01 AM »
Which one is the grotesque abuse?
  This one is. 

Fenring outlined it well.  It doesn't bother me that huge swaths of news outlets are using the same play book.  I like to believe I'm above average in sifting out opinion vs factual reporting.  I prefer it when large groups of people see the same facts and come to similar conclusions and explain how they used similar reasoning to arrive at those conclusions.

This drives home the point that even if it's a conclusion I don't agree with, that doesn't render it invalid.  After all, all these people came to it individually.  It adds weight to an argument.

What we saw here was a wealthy owner handing out a script that all their properties were required to read, as if it were in their own words.  (Unless there was a "and now a message from our parent company" disclaimer?)

This not only abuses the mechanism of multiple sources to add weight, but openly mocks it.  This "benign message" about the perils of fake news is likely no accident. 

The "hey, we all do it", tipping of their hand could just be laziness.  Or maybe it's a calculated move.

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 02, 2018, 06:52:41 PM »
It's a grotesque display of power.  That's what bothers me.  Not the message.  Trusting our rulers in media land remain benevolent or pay lip service to our hopes and dreams and values is not something I'm good at. 

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 02, 2018, 05:40:20 PM »
It's not like we're here defending fake news... 

Though having a bunch of people attempting to play the part of a local reporting passionately addressing their neighbors, using this script, MAY not be the most sincere way to go about combating it.

Then again, it does come off as a reasonable statement.  And who would expect any of the viewers to ever see 2, let alone heaps of these script readings all synced up?

(A) Unfortunately, some members of the media use their platforms to push their own personal bias and agenda to control "exactly what people think." … This is extremely dangerous to a democracy.
Good point faceless rich person... good point...

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 02, 2018, 05:34:44 PM »
IDK about you Seriati, but I'd rather there be 100 partisan people all screaming a similar message than 100 "local outlets" acting as sock puppets for 1 ridiculously wealthy individual/family.

If the message had a liberal slant, would you still not find it at all odd or distressing?  I'll admit, it's been ages since I got my news from my local TV station(s).  That's part of the problem.  Part of why they are gobbled up and consolidated by owners.  But seeing this in action, seeing the ownership flexing like this weirds me out.  Plutocracy frightens me a lot more than any Republican or conservative policies.

Between this kinda stuff and Facebook all I can think of is historical power struggles between medieval European monarchies and the church.  Us peasants are kinda hosed.

This literally isn't a controversial message.
My criticism has nothing to do with the message.

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 02, 2018, 03:38:14 PM »
I'd actually not mind it at all if they "ran a piece".  The creepy part was having them all read from the script.  It came off as actors reading a part rather than a reporter, reporting or editorializing about current events.

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 02, 2018, 02:51:00 PM »
I get that.  I just mean that many local outlets reading the script word for word, to one presumes, give it an authentic feel from YOUR local station...

Well it was just creepy. 

Are the puppet strings present because of how connected our world is?  Or are we just better able to see the strings because of how connected we are? 

General Comments / Re: Sinclair group propoganda video
« on: April 02, 2018, 01:50:53 PM »
WOW!  That was some crazy stuff.  It's one thing to know they share ownership or even agendas, but to see that many in lock step reading a script is something else. 

I'd say "nice find" but it was a bit too disturbing to be "nice".  :P

General Comments / Re: Tariffs are a problem?
« on: April 02, 2018, 11:55:32 AM »
I know for me, steel prices going up significantly would suck.  (architecture field)  As construction costs go up, projects get scaled back or put off.  When they do move forward, owners/developers look to shave that cost out elsewhere, such as your architectural fee, which is bid most often as a percentage of the overall project cost. 

As when the economy slowed down, a firm survives by cutting costs internally and by taking the slimmest of percentages possible. 

I suppose what I'm wondering is, from a long view perspective, if we want the rest of the world's workers to achieve a better standard of living, then getting use to actual cost of products based upon sourcing them from home, isn't a bad thing (taken by itself).  Our reliance on cheep products imported from under paid (by out standards at least) workers abroad, seems to me to be a system that can't be sustained forever. 

Not that a trade war is necessarily the path I'd pick to correct the global wage and living condition imbalance.  :P

Glad to hear it JoshCrow.  I just wish kids got exposed to this type of stuff in say early high school or even late middle school.  Learning to learn and how to reason instead of memorizing data for testing.

If your class is intended to tie in with more technology / engineering, I'd defiantly look at stuff like meme propagation, social media engineering and digital face and voice mapping to create passable fabrications. 

All that cool mo-cap and face-cap technology, used to make Golum and his cousins so expressive in movies, paired with life like renderings, paired up with a large enough sample of someone's public speaking can be knit together to fool a lot of people right now, and probably all but a digital forensics specialist within a few years...   

Sure Grand Moff Tarkin looked a bit off in Star Wars Rogue One, but with a bit more lighting changes, film distortion or distance shots?  Who knows.  We're in a time of phone camera footage of police incidents leading to protests.  How much of a stretch is it that an entirely fabricated event could cause a rather large reaction?

General Comments / Re: Tariffs are a problem?
« on: April 02, 2018, 11:26:33 AM »
Just a question.  What is the worst case scenario of a trade war?  We suddenly start manufacturing things here (at a significantly higher price)?  Other than maybe our appetite for delicious gadgets we cannot wait for what's at stake for the US? 

You know, besides the whole global economy and instability abroad thing?  :P

General Comments / Re: Stormy Daniels and the Surreal Reality
« on: April 02, 2018, 11:18:47 AM »
I'm not aware that Trump's used any improper means to achieve the goals I favor.
A far distinction.  I wasn't thinking in a compartmentization way.  Trump the person being a non related issue to Trump's (important) presidental/political agenda.  (as opposed to the smokescreen / trivialities where we just let Trump be Trump)

He's cut back on executive abuse and regulatory abuse to achieve most of his goods.
Jury's still out on the first IMO.  Something I agreed with you on when it was Obama in the hot seat.  As to the regulatory abuses...  That's very much a pick your poison ideology.  Abuses in regulation or abuses due to lack of oversight.  I tend to favor the former if I have to pick one of those evils (and I feel we must pick).

I'm not seeing Trump's personal issues as terribly relevant to the job he's doing
I do feel for you (and voters like you) who have legitimate non-Democrat political views/objectives.  I'm glad you're seeing some results you like.  That doesn't do much to change my view that Trump (and current day Republicans in general) rode to where he is on the backs of the religious/moral fundamentalists.  I felt much the same way about Bill Clinton durring his scandal.  That's between him and his wife I thought, but it is a mark on the dignity of the office.  With Trump, we seem to have (or rather he has) discarded the idea that the office should be dignified at all.  :(

If the media hadn't sold out, they'd have a credibility to make claims.
  They aren't being objective.  I do worry about phrases such as "make claims" though.  Biased reporting of actual events IS still reporting.  Asking for unbiased reporting is like looking for endagered species... 

As for credit and blame of the economy, I've always found it silly to give the president himself much credit.  Maybe they are helping the legislative branch come to agreements, or motivating them.  Or maybe they are making executive decisions that move things.  Watching the stock market fluctuate wildly on the off hand tweets of POTUS doesn't inspire me with confidence, but who knows, maybe with enough deregulation someone else's 401k or stock options will be looking up! 

I think it would create a form of social PTSD.  You can't be hyper-vigilant 24/7

Is this information being presented to inform or to provoke a reaction? 

I know awhile back "motive speculation" was a taboo here on Ornery. 

Didn't get it then, and I try to make it a way of life.  Stay open to the possibility you've got it wrong, and if it's something that matters, attempt to confirm your theories, but speculate away!  :D

My friends and I were just discussing this online.  Not so much the school angle but logic and logical fallacies.   We already complain that people are too susceptible to skewed data, reinforcing memes and "fake news".  Moving forward things are going to get MUCH worse.  Audio and video of person X saying thing Y will be convincingly realistic.  They will claim they never said any such thing.  You are then left with deciding if the lie is the potentially doctored footage / recording or the denial by person X. 

Teaching students how to be critical, and skeptical, without leading them down the spiral towards paranoia and conspiracy theories is an investment we need to be making right now.  We already know that we can't trust what we read.  Soon we can add in what we see and hear as well.  When your senses could be lying to you at any time, you need a sharp mind to sift through the noise.  We need to teach fact checking.  Or how not to fall for BS 101...

General Comments / Re: Stormy Daniels and the Surreal Reality
« on: April 02, 2018, 10:09:21 AM »
Did anyone, of any political persuasion, think the Stormy scandal would make any difference at all?  Even if 100% true, what does it tell us we didn't already know about Trump?  The only catch is if it was bungled in such a way as to make it criminal.

This isn't so much about him being teflon coated, but rather someone who was elected despite (or who knows, perhaps even because of) his flaws.  But the media is stymied.  Everything they thought of as being "presidential" has been thrown out the window.  It's being treated as any other high profile, low class, CEO position, and a large swath of the country seems cool with that.

Judging by Crunch and often Seriati's reactions and defense, this guy is getting the results they wanted, and nothing else matters.  The ends justify the means.  (and the stupid, and the petty, and the wasteful)  :P

Other than criminal wrongdoing 'the media' can't 'bring him down', because he exists down there.  He thrives on being down.  He is perfectly content being hated by most, as long as he's "winning" personally. 

The real dilemma is should the press keep reminding people who he is (as if he'd ever let us forget), or just get numb to it?  Is this some sort of "boy who cried wolf" scenario where they should save their outrage for...  who the hell knows what at this point?

General Comments / Re: Stormy Daniels and the Surreal Reality
« on: March 27, 2018, 02:28:30 PM »
Obama on SSM:  pass
Want everyone to vote = lie:  agree
CNN = voter nullification?:  don’t shoot the messenger
Insist on elimination or removal?:  the left hasn’t branded themselves with the “family values” label
Media thrives on Trump:  Duh (I fear that ALL media will conspire to give us 4 more years of this guy.  A true bipartisan effort!)  :(

General Comments / Re: Stormy Daniels and the Surreal Reality
« on: March 27, 2018, 01:41:52 PM »
This breaks down to a few pieces.

First, Trump is more celebrity than president.  This is exactly the type of scandal you expect from reporting on some famous celebrity.  And, to one of your points, yes I expect Trump does find it flattering.

Second, there are huge swaths of liberals or the left who cannot grok how conservative christian values can tolerate this stuff.  Hypocrisy IS the story.  YOU claim X yet you voted for Y, how is this not insane? 

Third, I doubt you'll find many who don't think it's wrong to cheat on your wife who just had your child.  Shockingly, you'll find many on the left/liberal side of the aisle who DO think marriage is sacred. 

As to where they think this is going?  No clue.  These stories only confirm what we knew strongly suspected about the man already.  As to who it may convince of what, no clue. 

Flustered doesn't even begin to explain how I feel about current reality.  I've hated "reality TV" since the moment it landed.  To see the *censored*ing White House set as the venue for some low brow "locker room" humor serialized production makes me nauseous.  As if the partisan divide wasn't enough in this country, now we got to put up with this buffoonery.  And the "left wing media" is eating his *censored* up with a spoon and begging for more.  God help us all.

General Comments / Re: Another one bites the Dust
« on: March 26, 2018, 10:32:52 AM »
Interesting topic!  Got to say, this was one of those things "I just knew".  Maybe it's a defense mechanism.  The world gets even more depressing if people turning radical has nothing at all to do with not having "better alternatives".  :(

General Comments / Re: Uber self-driving car hits and kills pedestrian
« on: March 23, 2018, 11:23:40 AM »
It's cool that the military has managed to outsource all this R&D for the next generation of warfare tech!

Dodging pedestrians today, targeting insurgents tomorrow!

General Comments / Re: A comedy of failures and a mass shooting
« on: March 23, 2018, 11:20:45 AM »
I'm confident I'm sometimes (and have been) guilty of the same in the past.  One of those things that is fine when you don't devote any processing power to.  Sorta like large swaths of my profanity vocabulary.  :P

General Comments / Re: A comedy of failures and a mass shooting
« on: March 23, 2018, 10:17:24 AM »
We really need better terms for these prominent stories.  While I instantly know what people mean when they call stories of violence and tragedies "juicy" or worse, "sexy" it still makes me a bit queasy.  And it's not even as if those are the first descriptors that pop to mind when I'm discussing them either. 

Even the way we talk about coverage of these incidents is *censored*ed up.

General Comments / Re: A comedy of failures and a mass shooting
« on: March 22, 2018, 07:45:58 PM »
Excellent points Wayward.  I think it's safe if we just assume everyone is lying to us or misinformed or has an agenda and is telling only part of the story.  Or all 3 at once! 

General Comments / Re: A comedy of failures and a mass shooting
« on: March 22, 2018, 03:29:47 PM »
Remember that Church Shooting in Texas?
There's another thing at play here as well. 

School > Children > Innocents

Mention of "church" immediately triggers biases in some or at least associations.  Church > Conservative > Republican > Pro Gun > less sympathetic

It's messed up, but it's baked in there. 

General Comments / Re: A comedy of failures and a mass shooting
« on: March 21, 2018, 04:04:08 PM »
For the record, I know how the media works and what generates add revenue.  I wasn't so much suggesting I didn't know that was how things are, and more lamenting how frustrating the situation was and how it distorts the conversation.

General Comments / Re: A comedy of failures and a mass shooting
« on: March 21, 2018, 01:07:43 PM »
So the argument is: 
Shooters unopposed on mass shootings qualify as news, and motivate political action;
Shooters opposed and stopped with force prior to them qualifying as mass shootings are not news, and should not be part of the debate on firearms?

Just making sure I've got that correct.

General Comments / Re: A comedy of failures and a mass shooting
« on: March 21, 2018, 12:51:16 PM »
Wonder what could have caused that?  Couldn't be the presence of an armed guard almost immediately ended the threat could it?  It's not so useful for the narrative if a shooter is immediately shut down.

Actually the presence of the guard was likely irrelevant - the shooter had a single clip and no other preparations.  He shot his ex-girlfriend and one other person who was present.  The reality is that most school shootings the individual only shoots one or two targeted persons than stops and waits for the police then commits suicide - regardless of whether they are confronted.

All of that makes sense, but are we to draw conclusions or plan countermeasures based upon such information? 

You can't know in advance what the motivations are of the shooter.  In this case, they were quickly stopped.  Does it make for as much of a media circus?  Of course not, but it should be part of the discussion. 

General Comments / Re: Uber self-driving car hits and kills pedestrian
« on: March 21, 2018, 09:09:32 AM »
As to 'redirect your car' - it would be kidnapping without a warrant, and they could only do so with the cooperation of Waymo/Uber/etc.
I fully expect that they will be networked in such a way that municipal law enforcement and first responders will have override capabilities. 

"We need to coordinate cars pulling off to the side to allow emergency vehicles to pass." 

OK, sounds legit. 

"Police need the ability to pull over automated cars.  The time it takes to report a vehicle, contact the manufacturer/service provider, issue the order and have it complied with could cost lives.  The patrol cars should have an override built in."

Hmm, ya, I can see that.

"You may as well just give us remote control override keys to the system.  It would be easier than coding these situational protocols.  It would also let us react to unanticipated situations."

I... I don't know...

General Comments / Re: Uber self-driving car hits and kills pedestrian
« on: March 20, 2018, 10:53:05 AM »
Is that a real argument
The first time the headline reads, "Automated Car Kills Driver While Avoiding Pedestrian", it might be.

General Comments / Re: Uber self-driving car hits and kills pedestrian
« on: March 19, 2018, 05:32:17 PM »
In fact, I'm not sure why there's an argument that it wasn't the cars' fault.
The question of fault becomes more interesting when property is "at fault". 

The only reason I pointed out the illegal / unexpected pedestrian crossing is that I don't know the speed the car was traveling at and the limitation of the sensors compared to a driver who MIGHT be better at anticipating the actions of the crosser than the car. 

I've stopped for deer, children, smart-phone zombies as well.  Working in Ann Arbor, you know that there are certain areas where you must treat everyone on the sidewalk as if they were suicidal and wanted to use your car as a means to end it all.  (freshman move in week) 

My point was it MAY not be the car's fault in that the average driver may not have been able to avoid the accident either.  JC's point is that the "average driver" kinda sucks and K.I.T. is still ahead of the curve even with this incident.

General Comments / Re: Uber self-driving car hits and kills pedestrian
« on: March 19, 2018, 04:37:51 PM »
Driver was present.
Pedestrian was not crossing at crosswalk.

Haven't heard other details yet.  But this sounds a lot more like the run of the mill, "accidents happen" incident, than a robot uprising requiring anything more than asking the question of "Can we do anything in terms of sensors to prevent this moving forward or did the pedestrian step out into traffic at a range from the car where it was unavoidable?"

General Comments / Re: California, the Neo-Confederacy
« on: March 16, 2018, 01:01:00 PM »
California’s state legislature has made it a criminal act for citizens to assist federal agents in apprehending illegal aliens

This is the important part (if it's not spin).  Opting to not order your LEO's to cooperate with federal agents, I see as problematic but not a HUGE deal.  After all, Congress COULD opt to sort out immigration entirely making this a non issue.  If it is indeed a "criminal act" to assist federal agents, things have gone too far.

by harnessing “the benevolent forces of modernity.”
The what now?  :P

I gotta say this does coincide with my uneducated, unresearched opinion on the subject.  BUT... learning how to apply the breaks is a handy tool to have in the tool box.  Surviving is not the same as thriving.

General Comments / Re: Another one bites the Dust
« on: March 15, 2018, 11:01:27 AM »
Using US soft power to encourage countries like Saudi Arabia to increase the rights of women. While not always successful, there is literally nothing in it for us.
I could make a case on what's in it for us.  I expect you could as well.

General Comments / Re: Another one bites the Dust
« on: March 14, 2018, 09:52:01 AM »
America first by any means necessary.

General Comments / Re: House Closes Investigation
« on: March 13, 2018, 12:07:00 PM »
My view is that Russian interference was real, was focused on disruption (and only tangentially on one candidate over another to maximize disruption), and that the partisan focus on the Trump administration has interfered both with our ability to get to the truth and our ability to respond to it.

It's my view that the Democratic response has done more to further the Russian goal of disruption than the Russian interference did in the first place.
Can't dissagree with the last part.  But I don't see how to avoid it either.  As to the first, I've always thought this was the most likely scenario.  That belief has been shaken over time, but it could easily be confirmation bias at work.

Yes, literally, the Russian's goal was disruption.  Supporting Trump was a means to the end of disrupting Hillary.  That's all.
I agree from Putin's perspective, that's all.  But there are other parties involved...

General Comments / Re: House Closes Investigation
« on: March 13, 2018, 11:18:32 AM »
This country will begin to heal when he's out of office.  What in your observation makes you believe Trump has any interest, let alone ability, at "healing"?

I re-wrote and deleted like 6 paragraphs here.  I'll save some space by saying, I hope your OP was bait, and doesn't reflect your beliefs Seriati.

General Comments / Re: Possibility of peace with NK
« on: March 12, 2018, 03:58:14 PM »
Been thinking on this as well.  Trump is likely to (probably should) get credit for breaking up log jams in all sorts of areas.  Still way too early to tell if those will break for the better or for the worse.  But let's say things with NK do turn out better.  Let's say that we get SOME movement on gun control.  Let's say that our immigration policies get some serious looking at during, or in response to Trump's policies/ranting.  Even if things get "worse" by many standards during his term, that he will be an engine of change, seems almost inevitable at this point.

I find the man dangerous and disgusting, but when the dust settles, and we wake up from this nightmare and he's gone... maybe we'll look back and decide that as awful as it was, maybe it was needed at the time. 

I suppose it should be no shock that when faced with a mirror image of his behavior overseas, he sees opportunity.  If they find a way where they both "win", anything is possible.

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