Author Topic: A good guy with a gun  (Read 726 times)

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2023, 11:55:25 AM »
You said that with a straight face, but I know you're too smart to actually mean it.

It could be easier.  But it is easy.  You don't even have to pass a driving test.  I would even be ok with making it be free.

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2023, 11:59:02 AM »
Responsible gun ownership shouldn't be onerous. Just about the same as getting a driver's license. Massachusetts is a good model. A one day safety course is required. Those laws are constitutional, they've been treated repeatedly.

So there shouldn't be a problem requiring a State Issued ID to vote then, right?
Is there any problem with a fully gun registry then? Register to vote. Register your gun?

And since we're really worried about fraudulent voting and illegal gun use. Let's have ballistics on file with the FBI for every pistol and rifle sold.

Why?

Tom

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2023, 12:02:38 PM »
In what way is it clear that "the Left" wants a gun registry so they can more easily seize guns once they're made illegal?

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2023, 12:03:31 PM »
So for mail in voting, I guess all militlary serving over seas no longer get to vote. All people who are not able to get out due to disabilities are no longer able to vote and college students away at school no longer get to vote?

How about the laws that some of the RINO MAGA Trumpist want where paper ballots only (even in states where there are already paper ballots) and all ballots must be counted the day of the election?

Absentee ballots are almost as secure as in person voting if they must be requested by the voter and require a good reason   They are not the same as "Mail in" voting.

As to the paper ballots,  I'll just say that the electronic voting machines and the process around them still need work before a lot of people will trust them.

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2023, 12:03:53 PM »
In what way is it clear that "the Left" wants a gun registry so they can more easily seize guns once they're made illegal?

They've said so.

Tom

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2023, 12:07:15 PM »
Which members of the Left, precisely? Is this in the same way that "the Right" wants guns available so they can shoot legislators?

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2023, 12:19:42 PM »
Which members of the Left, precisely? Is this in the same way that "the Right" wants guns available so they can shoot legislators?

I'm not playing that game with you Tom. 

rightleft22

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2023, 12:31:44 PM »
In what way is it clear that "the Left" wants a gun registry so they can more easily seize guns once they're made illegal?

They've said so.

Those 'they's' should be locked up. You can't name the specific person who belong to 'they' but you know.. well you don't Know but you know who they are. They the ones that justify your reasoning's while excusing you from having to look to deep into what you think you know.

Funny the only ones I hear making that statement are those that lean right.  Same for the word Woke the only ones that use it now, as if it means anything, are those on the right. In that sense its the right that are woke now. I mean LOL Fox just accused X-box of being woke because they improve the energy consumption of their product. Is that Woke now???

LOL  Jung was right about enantiodromia
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 12:36:15 PM by rightleft22 »

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2023, 01:37:52 PM »
Here  I'll give you one example. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk47PWI4aq8

Now you will make up some reason why that doesn't count.

rightleft22

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2023, 02:03:19 PM »
Here  I'll give you one example. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk47PWI4aq8

Now you will make up some reason why that doesn't count.

Well you got me, of course Beto O’Rourke represents all of the them's and 'they's which is why he won the nomination... what that didn't happen (like most for the crap we fear doesn't actually happen.)

The reality is that the majority of Americans, right and left, want responsible gun laws... but not enough of the majority will do anything real to make it happen. so stop worrying about it.

Beto O’Rourke was, as politicians do, playing to his base, which wasn't enough to win the nomination, even if he did win the system you want to tear down wouldn't make it easy, or even possible so again fear not.  Unless you get what you want and a strong man takes charge. Then all bets are off.

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2023, 02:12:30 PM »
Here  I'll give you one example. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk47PWI4aq8

Now you will make up some reason why that doesn't count.

Well you got me, of course Beto O’Rourke represents all of the them's and 'they's which is why he won the nomination... what that didn't happen (like most for the crap we fear doesn't actually happen.)

The reality is that the majority of Americans, right and left, want responsible gun laws... but not enough of the majority will do anything real to make it happen. so stop worrying about it.

Beto O’Rourke was, as politicians do, playing to his base, which wasn't enough to win the nomination, even if he did win the system you want to tear down wouldn't make it easy, or even possible so again fear not.  Unless you get what you want and a strong man takes charge. Then all bets are off.


Biden agrees with him.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=926563594413424&t=546


Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2023, 02:18:51 PM »
So does our VP
Quote
"Great question. I do believe that we need to do buybacks and I'll tell you why," Harris responded. "First of all, let's be clear about what assault weapons are. They have been designed to kill a lot of human beings quickly. They are weapons of war with no place on the streets of a civil society. I've seen assault weapons kill babies and police officers."

"A buyback program is a good idea. Now we need to do it the right way," Harris continued. "And part of that has to be, you know, buy back and give people their value, the financial value of what they have and not just take things from people that have value without compensating them. We need to do it the right way."

Don't worry, we'll get some of our money back, but we must give up the guns.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2023, 02:39:17 PM »
In what way is it clear that "the Left" wants a gun registry so they can more easily seize guns once they're made illegal?

Honestly, I don't think on this particular point you need to cast it as a conspiracy theory. I've met plenty of regular people who basically wonder why anyone should have guns. That's pretty close to stating that they should not have them. It shouldn't surprise you or anyone that there may be plenty of people around who sympathize with sentiments in countries like English or New Zealand. What's different is the politics, and the opposition. So even if you granted that many gun control advocates in fact have gun banning as their fantasy-land endgame, it would not work in the U.S. as it has in some other countries when mandatory gun confiscation has happened. Even in the best-case scenario for a gun-hater in the U.S. they would be facing a literal armed uprising if they tried such a thing, so I think the best they could realistically hope for would be stricter controls on available weaponry and maybe a registry. The latter could be seen as a stepping-stone to seizure, which on paper is a valid objection but in practice discounts the reality on the ground.

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2023, 02:55:16 PM »
What other legitimate purpose would a registry serve?

rightleft22

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2023, 03:01:00 PM »
Here  I'll give you one example. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk47PWI4aq8

Now you will make up some reason why that doesn't count.

Well you got me, of course Beto O’Rourke represents all of the them's and 'they's which is why he won the nomination... what that didn't happen (like most for the crap we fear doesn't actually happen.)

The reality is that the majority of Americans, right and left, want responsible gun laws... but not enough of the majority will do anything real to make it happen. so stop worrying about it.

Beto O’Rourke was, as politicians do, playing to his base, which wasn't enough to win the nomination, even if he did win the system you want to tear down wouldn't make it easy, or even possible so again fear not.  Unless you get what you want and a strong man takes charge. Then all bets are off.


Biden agrees with him.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=926563594413424&t=546

Since I've been aware of the gun issue, same arguments same results and nothing changes so the individuals obviously don't speak for the the whole. Biden might believe that the AR5 and such shouldn't be for sale but he hasn't and won't do anything about it, and you know it.  So don't worry be happy.
 

wmLambert

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2023, 03:01:07 PM »
Why is it so difficult to understand the Founder's demand that the citizenry must be armed with the same weapons or war as the military, in case of the historical transgressions experienced all over the world. You can't find an uprising that doesn't show tyrannical regimes going after guns to prevent their villainy.

rightleft22

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2023, 03:02:45 PM »
What other legitimate purpose would a registry serve?

Off the top of my head. If you new your guns were on a register you might be less likely to use them in a crime. Any unregistered weapon would be a crime so that keeps things simple.

Tom

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2023, 03:04:19 PM »
Here's the thing, though: the purpose of a gun registry is not to make collecting guns once their possession is made illegal somewhat easier. There's no disputing that there are plenty of people out there -- Republicans included -- who would like to ban the purchase and/or resale of specific types of weaponry, and a smaller number who would like to confiscate weapons that are already out in the wild. But while registration would indeed make it easier to do this, I don't know a single person who advocates gun registration who does so because it would make the confiscation of existing legally-possessed firearms any easier.

I actually find the parallel between this and the whole Voter ID thing to be a bit interesting, because it's certainly and inarguably the case that many Republicans have openly admitted that the entire point of Voter ID is to suppress poor and minority votes, not illegal votes. But here we're pretending to worry that the purpose of gun registration would be to make the government aware of which guns to seize.

----------

Quote
Why is it so difficult to understand the Founder's demand that the citizenry must be armed with the same weapons or war as the military...
Leaving aside the (false) claim about the Founder's intent, let's discuss for a minute how the intent of the Founders is absolutely irrelevant to modern society.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2023, 03:36:47 PM »
Why is it so difficult to understand the Founder's demand that the citizenry must be armed with the same weapons or war as the military, in case of the historical transgressions experienced all over the world. You can't find an uprising that doesn't show tyrannical regimes going after guns to prevent their villainy.

The same uprisings create tyrannical regimes, recall the Soviet union, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Spain. It's not like lots of guns equals freedom.

Conversely, many countries left their tyrannies behind without killing everyone in sight with lots of guns. Canada, India, Australia.

The founders didn't arm the people so that they could kill their elected leaders for being tyrannical. They wanted to make sure the federal government wouldn't try to disband state and municipal militias.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2023, 03:42:41 PM »
If the government wants to know who has guns they have a wealth of existing data to find that out. A registry is about knowing who has a specific gun so that when somebody shoots up a school or a rival drug lord, they know who to talk to.

Massachusetts has a gun registry, I think the number of seized guns is just about zero, and I doubt that they would be much more efficient at collecting those guns than Texas, except for the fact that Texas lawmen would actively refuse a lawful court order to collect AR-15s

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2023, 04:09:26 PM »
I've never thought much about what a gun registry could accomplish, as it's not on my mind very often. It would seem to do little about the black market and the guns that would still be used by gangs, mafia, and other types of terrorists or criminals. It might give some people a wake up call to secure their legal and registered firearms at home more safely now that they're being 'monitored' in a sense. One thing I can think of, that I doubt Lloyd or most Republicans would be fans of, would be to use the registry for municipalities to levy a tax on homes with registered guns, for the purposes of funding security and security training in local schools. While certain types of criminals no doubt obtain their firearms illegally anyhow, the kids who want into school with guns probably do so with guns from home most of the time. It's not going to be easy or obvious for a 15 year old to figure out how to find the local arms smugglers.

rightleft22

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2023, 04:34:17 PM »
Those that had nothing to hide would be on the registry those that arn't... maybe that's because the gun was purchased on black market. In this way a registry could help define the boundaries of responsible gun ownership. 
Similar to responsible automobile ownership

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2023, 04:37:02 PM »
I actually find the parallel between this and the whole Voter ID thing to be a bit interesting, because it's certainly and inarguably the case that many Republicans have openly admitted that the entire point of Voter ID is to suppress poor and minority votes, not illegal votes.

Ok, Tom.  Its your turn.  I've never heard one Republican admit that.  If you can provide one actual Republican saying they want to suppress poor and minority votes, I'll give this point some serious thought.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2023, 06:12:22 PM »
I actually find the parallel between this and the whole Voter ID thing to be a bit interesting, because it's certainly and inarguably the case that many Republicans have openly admitted that the entire point of Voter ID is to suppress poor and minority votes, not illegal votes.

Ok, Tom.  Its your turn.  I've never heard one Republican admit that.  If you can provide one actual Republican saying they want to suppress poor and minority votes, I'll give this point some serious thought.

Dude. Of all the comments he's made you chose to pick on the one weaker one instead of the others? This particular remark is hardly relevant other than, as he says, an 'interesting' analogy.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2023, 06:59:53 PM »
I actually find the parallel between this and the whole Voter ID thing to be a bit interesting, because it's certainly and inarguably the case that many Republicans have openly admitted that the entire point of Voter ID is to suppress poor and minority votes, not illegal votes.

Ok, Tom.  Its your turn.  I've never heard one Republican admit that.  If you can provide one actual Republican saying they want to suppress poor and minority votes, I'll give this point some serious thought.

Here's one, but I'm sure you'll deny it.

Quote
Longtime local conservative activist Don Yelton is getting national attention for contentious comments he made Oct. 23 on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

The renowned comedy program featured an interview with Yelton as part of a humorous segment on controversial new voter ID laws in North Carolina and other states across the South.

“The law is going to kick the Democrats in the butt,” Yelton asserted, in contradiction to leaders in the Republican Party who have argued the law isn’t about partisanship. “If it hurts a bunch of college kids that are too lazy to get up off their bohonkas and go get a photo ID, then so be it. If it hurts a bunch of whites, so be it. If it hurts a bunch of lazy blacks that want the government to give them everything, then so be it,” Yelton continues.

Wayward Son

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2023, 08:49:30 PM »
So does our VP
Quote
"Great question. I do believe that we need to do buybacks and I'll tell you why," Harris responded. "First of all, let's be clear about what assault weapons are. They have been designed to kill a lot of human beings quickly. They are weapons of war with no place on the streets of a civil society. I've seen assault weapons kill babies and police officers."

"A buyback program is a good idea. Now we need to do it the right way," Harris continued. "And part of that has to be, you know, buy back and give people their value, the financial value of what they have and not just take things from people that have value without compensating them. We need to do it the right way."

Don't worry, we'll get some of our money back, but we must give up the guns.

What's the problem with that?  I've been told repeatedly that assault rifles, like the AR-15, are no different than other semi-automatic rifles.

So just buy another type of semi-automatic rifle.  If a buy-back program will keep these rifles out of the hands of Rambo-wannabes who shoot up schools, what's the harm?

Tom

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: A good guy with a gun
« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2023, 01:41:29 PM »
Quote
I've never heard one Republican admit that.
You really don't follow Wisconsin politics at all, do you?
Our state is a good example of what happens when gerrymandered districts and a corrupt court make it possible for Republicans to feel secure enough to say the quiet parts out loud. (Of course, the current scandal has to do with the Republican head of the election commission sending out an email crowing about how successfully they were able to convince minority voters in Milwaukee and Green Bay to stay home by leveraging Facebook and Twitter disinfo campaigns; the ballot booth closures and admission that voting suppression was integral to Republican success in the state all came under Walker, when they were first feeling their oats.)