Author Topic: The Ministry of Truth Created  (Read 731 times)

Crunch

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The Ministry of Truth Created
« on: April 29, 2022, 10:29:27 AM »
For those that don't know:
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A new board at the Department of Homeland Security will focus on countering misinformation and disinformation, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas told lawmakers today, with Wilson Center fellow Nina Jankowicz separately confirming that she would be executive director of the board.

Nina Jankowicz, if you watch her TikTok videos, is a bit of a loon that was an early proponent of the Trump / Russia collusion hoax and also insisted that the Hunter Biden laptop was disinformation.

So, it's an Orwellian dystopia made real, an actual Ministry of Truth that will target anyone saying anything that contradicts the diktats of the regime or says anything that embarrasses them. I mean, if we've learned anything over the last couple of year, the left is extremely happy censoring anything that they oppose so this should be a happy event for them. Here's the deal - we'll use it against you when Trump or DeSantis take the Whitehouse. If you think it won't happen, recall the nuclear option.

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2022, 11:04:08 AM »
It's just interesting how many times what the left says are lies actually turn out to be truths.

So this will just be par for the course. This Ministry of Lies will be called the opposite, the Ministry of Truth or whatever they come up with, kind of like how the Department of War transitioned into the Department of Defense. There are lots of misnomers and euphemistic like terms floating around like that when you start looking for them. "Internal Revenue"? Is that anything like a tax perhaps? Could have just called it that instead but you see how it goes.

Seriati

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2022, 11:04:53 AM »
There's nothing legal or good this board will do.  And here I thought the lesson was learned with the House Committee on Un-American Activities, but I guess government driven thought policing is just too juicy an idea to keep down when those in power feel threatened.

If your team not only believes in thought police but actually sets up a Ministry of Truth, are you really so sure you're the right side?  I mean there were a lot of death eaters but not a team that I'd want to play for.

LetterRip

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2022, 01:34:17 PM »
Trump and Russia colluded, it wasn't a hoax.  However there wasn't prosecutable criminal conspiracy - because Mueller felt that mens rea could not be sufficiently established (they engaged in the behaviour but he felt he couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew the behavior they engaged in was illegal).

The alleged Biden laptop has all of the hallmarks of being planted.  There is certainly legitimate emails on it, as would be expected of any planted laptop (Standard procedure for intelligence agencies is you have the vast majority of the material be legitimate to give plausibility to whatever disinformation you plant).  There is nothing to date to suggest that it was in fact a laptop dropped off by Hunter Biden.  We will have to wait for the long process of the FBI going through and determining what material if any, is legitimate.  To date, a number of emails have been validated.  That doesn't in anyway suggest that the laptop itself is Hunter's or that he dropped it off - contrary to what has widely been reported in low quality media sources.

Seriati

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2022, 02:01:08 PM »
Trump and Russia colluded, it wasn't a hoax.

Let this lie go.  It's a lie, it's always been a lie.  Repeating it is spreading disinformation deliberately.

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However there wasn't prosecutable criminal conspiracy - because Mueller felt that mens rea could not be sufficiently established (they engaged in the behaviour but he felt he couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew the behavior they engaged in was illegal).

Which is a false paraphrase of what Mueller said on a specific issue.  Mueller flat out and directly said that there was no evidence that any American colluded with Russia, only evidence (which was spotty and scant) that Russia tried to influence the election.

Meanwhile, what happened in the last election is hundreds of thousands of times greater magnitude than what happened in 2016.  The sheer amount of money and corrupt influencing of truth literally had hundreds of thousands of more touch points than everything Mueller verified from the Russians.

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The alleged Biden laptop has all of the hallmarks of being planted.

Really?  What are the "hallmarks"?  This was a false narrative from the first second - and obviously so.

It's also a standard that has never appeared before, thousands of articles against Trump have blatant hallmarks of being planted, many of which the media actually knew were nonsense and they still promoted and spread them.

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There is certainly legitimate emails on it, as would be expected of any planted laptop (Standard procedure for intelligence agencies is you have the vast majority of the material be legitimate to give plausibility to whatever disinformation you plant).  There is nothing to date to suggest that it was in fact a laptop dropped off by Hunter Biden.

Except for the fact that it is Hunter's laptop.  I'm stunned that you think you can credibly assert false information on this at this point.  For your story to even have a reasonable basis, the masterminds actually have to have had a laptop of Hunter Biden's.  The information, photos and communications on the laptop were in many cases verified on the recipient's end and in others not practically falsifiable (actual pictures of Hunter in various situations).

Is your argument really that someone had Hunter's actual laptop but that this particular laptop is a fake?  That's ridiculous and far fetched assertion that requires extraordinary proof.  Do you actually have any?  No, you just have that there "could" be made up stuff included.

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We will have to wait for the long process of the FBI going through and determining what material if any, is legitimate.  To date, a number of emails have been validated.  That doesn't in anyway suggest that the laptop itself is Hunter's or that he dropped it off - contrary to what has widely been reported in low quality media sources.

Or you could quit rejecting reality out of misplaced loyalty to a bunch of liars and accept the truth.  The laptop is real, was always real and the very people that generated the false narrative you're clinging to always knew it was real.  The entire purpose of the spoon fed narrative you're regurgitating now is to just pretend there's an open question for as long as possible and to defer any action until its too late to correct it.

Posts like the one you made, that just repeat disinformation that's been debunked are why I've been taking a break for so long.  It's a literal waste of time to have discussions when posters can not even accept basic reality as a premise.

Grant

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2022, 02:46:43 PM »
It's good to know who is still hooked up to the right wing useful idiot diarrhea dispensing sphincter.  It also helps illuminate who has actually read Orwell. 

I'd like you members of the human centipede that is certain information purveyors, to actually draw some similarities, and some differences, between the Ministry of Truth, and a board set up under the Department of Homeland Security in the United States.  Go on.  Give it a go.  Let's actually do a comparison.  Instead of spraying feces all over the eyes and minds of others.  What are the powers, mission, and authority of the Ministry of Truth in Oceana? How about the Department of Homeland Security in the US and this board?

While you're at it, can you make some comparisons between what this board would supposedly be doing and what CISA has been doing about misinformation.  Or the FBI?  Or the Department of State? 

Can you explain to me the recommendations made by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in it's report on Russian Active Measures Campaigns and Interference in the 2016 US Election.  A committee headed by Marco Rubio.  A Republican.  With seven other Republicans on it.  Can you explain why people like Senator Rob Portman of Ohio, a Republican, are introducing bills like "Countering Foreign Propaganda and Disinformation Act"?   A Bill that calls for the establishment of centers to "to coordinate the sharing among government agencies of information on foreign government information warfare efforts, including information provided by recipients of information access fund grants awarded using funds made available under subsection (e) and from other sources, subject to the appropriate classification guidelines"?  A bill that was sponsored by Adam Kinzinger, a Republican (except to Trumpists) in the House of Representatives?

Now, I understand this information was not meant for people who ask questions.  Or people who can read.  Or people who can research.  Or people who can smell bull*censored* a mile away.  I understand that the people who posted it to this board did not actually come up with this lovely piece of political commentary.  They're just repeating it from the sphincter.  Passing it along to the next person in the human centipede. 

But please pass along to the sphincter in front of you:  This is not the way to reverse 2020.  This is the way to repeat it.  The people you lost in 2020, are not going to come back because of stupid crap like this.  Really, all you have to do is STFU for 4 years and let the Democrat screw ups do all the work for you.  But the Diadochi must distinguish themselves, apparently.  And their way of doing this is to get on FNC as much as possible.  And the best way to do that, is to crap out some hyperbole. 

You embarrass me.  You embarrass George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater, Milton Friedman, Bill Buckley, and Hank Hill. 

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2022, 09:53:47 PM »
I saw this and it made me wonder what would be an example of the "misinformation circulated by human smugglers to get migrants to cross the U.S.-Mexico border?"


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lauren-boebert-defund-disinformation-board

"The issue is a newly announced Disinformation Governance Board that DHS says will counter disinformation from Russia and misinformation circulated by human smugglers to get migrants to cross the U.S.-Mexico border, according to the Associated Press."


LetterRip

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2022, 10:34:39 PM »
Here is the quote from the report,

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On the facts here, the government would unlikely be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the June 9 meeting participants had general knowledge that their conduct was unlawful. The investigation has not developed evidence that the participants in the meeting were familiar with the foreign-contribution ban or the application of federal law to the relevant factual context … While the government has evidence of later efforts to prevent disclosure of the nature of the June 9 meeting that could circumstantially provide support for a showing of scienter … that concealment occurred more than a year later, involved individuals who did not attend the June 9 meeting, and may reflect an intention to avoid political consequences rather than any prior knowledge of illegality.

So yes, they engaged in unlawful collusion, but they could argue lack of scienter and it would be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

Crunch

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2022, 09:26:38 AM »
Trump and Russia colluded, it wasn't a hoax.
Oh. My. God.  :o

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2022, 10:00:46 AM »
I'll take my own bait then.

"The issue is a newly announced Disinformation Governance Board that DHS says will counter disinformation from Russia and misinformation circulated by human smugglers to get migrants to cross the U.S.-Mexico border, according to the Associated Press."

So what exactly is the misinformation circulated by human smugglers?

Are they telling them that 100% of the people who get to America will be allowed to stay? If so, that would be misinformation since at least some of them are getting deported. But is that really what the smugglers are claiming?

Or are they saying if you get here especially if you are a child or with a child you've got a pretty good chance of being allowed to stay? Are they telling people that Biden is running midnight flights around the country to help the human smugglers finish the last leg of the human smuggling run to facilitate and complete their operation? Because that would be the truth.

So on one of the main things this supposed Ministry of Truth is set to dispute it will be the Ministry of Truth that is the one clearing lying with the Biden largely free migration policy proving it.

LetterRip

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2022, 10:40:12 AM »
I'll take my own bait then.

"The issue is a newly announced Disinformation Governance Board that DHS says will counter disinformation from Russia and misinformation circulated by human smugglers to get migrants to cross the U.S.-Mexico border, according to the Associated Press."

So what exactly is the misinformation circulated by human smugglers?

They lie about routes (how easy and comfortable the crossings will be), costs (how cheap they can be smuggled), ease of being granted asylum, and availability of jobs.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/human-smugglers-use-facebook-connect-migrants-spread-false-hope-reaching-n1262984
« Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 10:42:59 AM by LetterRip »

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2022, 11:47:18 AM »
That's good then for the Ministry of Truth to tell them it won't be as easy as that. Yes, the trip is dangerous. There is no 100% guarantee that you'll get to stay. Jobs? I don't know about that one. Seems like the red carpet is being rolled out by the U.S. government to make sure illegals are normalized and allowed to work and all we here about is constantly is the worker shortage and we need more people who are willing and able to work. If the Biden administration told the whole truth would that really be a disincentive to people thinking about migrating? Highly doubtful.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2022, 08:44:40 AM »
That's good then for the Ministry of Truth to tell them it won't be as easy as that. Yes, the trip is dangerous. There is no 100% guarantee that you'll get to stay. Jobs? I don't know about that one. Seems like the red carpet is being rolled out by the U.S. government to make sure illegals are normalized and allowed to work and all we here about is constantly is the worker shortage and we need more people who are willing and able to work. If the Biden administration told the whole truth would that really be a disincentive to people thinking about migrating? Highly doubtful.

Just to be clear, you're against a program by the American government to try to keep illegal immigrants from trying to reach the boarder. And you justify this because we don't lock 100% of them up in detention upon reaching American soil.

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2022, 09:11:10 AM »
The "program" is a joke. If Biden's Ministry of Truth actually told the truth about illegal immigration, would that really be a disincentive for people to try?

The truth is, if you get here, there's a very good chance, an excellent chance even, that you stay here. The truth is also that it's not likely to be as easy as some of the smugglers are promising. So are those the truths that we're going to tell everyone and hope it keeps them from trying to get here?

I'm against Biden's program because it doesn't work and it's not going to work. Even though Biden is telling the truth about it not necessarily being a cake walk to get here, his actions on immigration tell a greater truth that everyone is still welcome to try and if you do make it you'll be welcomed with open arms.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2022, 09:28:55 AM »
The "program" is a joke. If Biden's Ministry of Truth actually told the truth about illegal immigration, would that really be a disincentive for people to try?

The truth is, if you get here, there's a very good chance, an excellent chance even, that you stay here. The truth is also that it's not likely to be as easy as some of the smugglers are promising. So are those the truths that we're going to tell everyone and hope it keeps them from trying to get here?

Define excellent chance of staying. The asylum acceptance rates I'm seeing are 50/50 at best.

So we shouldn't try to counteract the lies and promises of human smugglers because you think the truth may not be harsh enough to keep everyone away?

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I'm against Biden's program because it doesn't work and it's not going to work. Even though Biden is telling the truth about it not necessarily being a cake walk to get here, his actions on immigration tell a greater truth that everyone is still welcome to try and if you do make it you'll be welcomed with open arms.

It doesn't work? It hasn't started yet. Maybe in your opinion it won't work and I agree it won't keep everyone away. But an honest assessment of the risks, costs, and likelihood of success may keep 10-50% of people from trying in the first place. Wouldn't that be a win? Keeping a significant number of people from the expense and dangers of the trip while avoiding the court and deportation costs to the American public. This program will definitely be less expensive than prison camps scattered through the south west. And cause less human suffering that stripping children from parents and then later trying to figure out how to reunite them.

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2022, 10:58:27 AM »
There is no way that Biden's immigration policies will be a win if by win we mean reducing illegal immigration.

If Biden telling people it's going to be tougher to get here than what a lot of the coyotes are promising but the people also know that if they do get here there is a much greater chance that they'll get to stay compared to what it was under Trump, so how do those dissuaded versus persuaded percentages line up?

Ten to fifty percent dissuaded out of an expanded pool of 1000% more people persuaded to consider it, so you get about what we've gotten which is a lot more people coming here and staying compared to under Trump. If people want to say that's more humane than fine, but don't pretend like we're illegal immigration is going down.

I can't find the numbers I'm looking for so just going to have to make some up here. So if we get 500,000 illegals per year under Trump and 1.2 million per year under Biden then we're going to say the Ministry of Truth is a success if it talks 200,000 of the people thinking about crossing next year from doing it and we only get 1 million. We need to make sure we are only taking the people who are very seriously determined. And then we're going to celebrate that as a Biden success.

NobleHunter

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2022, 11:08:58 AM »
I'm not sure 500k vs 1.2 million is a reasonable ratio between the administrations. Biden hasn't been nearly as progressive on immigration as a lot of people were hoping. That also gives room for this group to counteract the idea that a Democratic administration is all sunshine and roses for illegal immigrants.

cherrypoptart

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2022, 11:14:36 AM »
Total failure paired with "but it could be worse" will be par for the course for the Biden administration. Things will be getting much worse than ever before but he'll be defended because they could have been even worse than that. Hey, sure we lost Afghanistan to the Taliban but at least they didn't take over Japan too. Sure Ukraine got invaded again but at least Russia didn't use nukes (knock on wood). Sure we took the masks off too early, got hundreds of thousands more Americans killed than we would have and spread delta and then omicron far and wide, but it could have been worse though I'm not sure how on this one but somehow it could have been; at least we didn't get hit by the bubonic plague. Inflation at the highest level in decades but at least, and I've actually seen this story in the media, at least it's not as high as Argentina.

"Inflation Got You Down? At Least You Don’t Live in Argentina.

Citizens cope with world’s second-highest rate by hoarding toilet paper, spending paychecks immediately; ‘Here, 40% is normal’

BUENOS AIRES—Shopkeeper Jonathan Faez has a word of advice to people around the world obsessing about inflation: Chill out.

“I have friends in the United States and Spain and they’re telling me they’re going crazy with their annual inflation of 5% or 7%,” says Mr. Faez, owner of a lingerie store. “Here, we reach 4% almost every month!”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/inflation-got-you-down-at-least-you-dont-live-in-argentina-11650898676

What did the fish say when he hit a wall? Dam. What did the reader say when he hit a paywall? Damn. That story is paywalled but there's enough to make the point.

The catchphrase for Biden's Presidency is basically, "Yeah it sucks, sucks worse than any of you thought it would and worse than we ever said it could but hey, it could be worse and we can prove it because in a lot of places right now it actually is worse so stop complaining and count you blessings."

Well that's too long for a catchphrase so basically it's: "Hey, it could be worse. Vote Joe Biden."

TheDrake

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Re: The Ministry of Truth Created
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2022, 12:02:00 PM »
Some people just won't be satisfied unless every single person who doesn't have a visa is immediately frogmarched back across the Rio Grande. Asylum, cancelled. Due Process, cancelled. Reuniting families, cancelled. Anything short of that is "failure". Naturally, other people won't be satisfied unless anyone can stay no matter how they got here or who they are. Neither group wants to say, "what is an acceptable amount of illegal immigration" - and in fact legal immigration as well, as in the case of asylum.