Author Topic: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting  (Read 2234 times)

LetterRip

  • Members
    • View Profile
price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« on: October 17, 2022, 02:36:24 AM »
I wonder if this is illegal price fixing,

https://www.propublica.org/article/yieldstar-rent-increase-realpage-rent

Basically a huge number of rental companies are using the same algorithm to set prices, even being told to accept lower occupancy to maximize rents.  This results in essentially what appears to be colluding on rental prices.

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2022, 04:31:45 AM »
Simple answer. Eat the rich.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2022, 09:12:03 AM »
You could make an argument about that for just about any BI tool. Collision would imply sharing of private sharing and plans. Rental pricing is very transparent. Would this be any different than a landlord going to rent.com and looking up pricing for comparable units? Real estate agents will have a good idea about the market value per square foot, are they doing something wrong if they inform the owner off an office building about prevailing rates?

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2022, 12:04:20 PM »
You could make an argument about that for just about any BI tool. Collision would imply sharing of private sharing and plans. Rental pricing is very transparent. Would this be any different than a landlord going to rent.com and looking up pricing for comparable units? Real estate agents will have a good idea about the market value per square foot, are they doing something wrong if they inform the owner off an office building about prevailing rates?

Found the rich guy.

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2022, 12:47:43 PM »
It feels different between people trying to use a variety of tools to read the market and a whole bunch of people using the same tool to read the market. Individual landlords or real estate agents are going to interpret data and how it applies to the unit in question.

I'm also curious if whether explicit collusion matters (from an intent of the law, rather than the letter, obviously) really matter. If the effects of using the algorithm are the same as price fixing, should we really care if landlords are actively colluding? Conspiracies against the public of that sort aren't illegal because we don't like them, they're illegal because they are bad for the economy.

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2022, 12:54:10 PM »
You're a landlord. I mean, tell me if you're not, but I'm pretty sure.

Oh. There's two of you. Pretty sure it covers ya both so let's sit back on that
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 12:56:25 PM by DJQuag »

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2022, 12:56:58 PM »
...

Do you think I support using the algorithm?

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2022, 01:23:33 PM »
...

Do you think I support using the algorithm?

That wasn't a no.

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2022, 01:29:05 PM »
It was a question about your reading comprehension skills

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2022, 01:29:09 PM »
This is mixing up apples and oranges. The fact that market prices may be set by observing the other pricing in the market is pretty much how all markets work, including and maybe especially real estate and financial markets. In fact this is so much so that companies may well undercut their own margins based on the need to compete in a perceived fierce market. The issue of whether a business looks at other prices in their area with their own eyes, or with an app, seems to me immaterial. If you want to consider flat pricing (meaning everyone is priced the same) as being a price-fixing cartel, the main issue will be whether the prices are good. That's really all it boils down to. For instance, let's say OPEC sat down and decided that for humanitarian reasons they wanted to offer affordable energy to everyone. Well they could collude to offer a discount price, and no one would complain. It's when a cartel or quasi-cartel (which some markets do become) sets an unreasonable price that no one can undercut because the cartel protects it is when you have the population fleeced and literally can't do anything about it because there is no competitor willing to offer a lower price. So the question to ask regarding the app is whether everyone is de facto acting as a greedy cartel, with large margins and no alternative, or as a bunch of sheep following each other closely but with varying or even low margins. As the rental market is soaring now I do think it has developed quasi-cartel characteristics, because any landlord can raise rent knowing that prospective tenants have no choice but to pay, since the demand elasticity is zero. One can observe a similar situation with insulin and other medical care situations. But the fact the rental rate inflation may have gotten out of control in the last couple of years is surely not because of an app, but rather the app is probably reporting (equally to all its users) what anyone could see with their own eyes. The only difference is that personal interpretation of market prices, which will have some irregularities, would be smoothed out by the app to have very little variation. Although the landlords (or Airbnb's, or whatever) can still choose what to do with that information.

Also I should mention there's a big difference between a cartel in the utilities sector versus a sector like real estate/rent pricing. Let's say you have a Comcast situation where a near or total monopoly allows poor service, high prices, and no competition, to create an abusive environment for people (especially if the fiber/cable had government funding and is used for private greed). And this monopoly is more or less scalable to a high degree. But let's say you have ten doors of rental units and have to decide a rent level. You can go with the standard market rate and expect to fill the units. You can offer it for lower, and readily expect a ton of applicants, which will be a lot of work. Or you can even offer above market levels, especially if you have a special perk or two, and now suddenly you'll have fewer applicants, but all you need to do is fill ten spaces. It's not scalable in the sense that your higher price can't suddenly generate 100x or 200x that rent increase; you are getting 10x no matter what if you fill the units. So the math ends up being very clear about what your cash flows would be if you fill all ten, depending on your price point. And if your costs are going up quite a lot, let's say due to the Fed rate hikes that will continue into 2023, your margins will be greatly affected by your choice of rent price levels. So whereas a utilities cartel appears to be little more than abusive greed, a quasi-cartel in rental units does have other characteristics such as landlords protecting themselves from more rate hikes, from lumber and other price hikes, from unexpected renovations, and so forth. It is entirely possible to be charging fairly high rent and yet not be clearing that much profit after depreciation.

Based on this brief analysis, it's also worth noting whether a cartel or quasi-cartel is operating as it does out of greed or out of at least some part of necessity. It's entirely possible the problem like in the system rather than in individual players. An upward price spiral is not necessarily the fault of most of the people involved in it, even though they're raising their prices, often in lockstep. Inflation, itself, is the ultimate cartel, if you want to think of it that way. It may well begin with some greedy, shady players, who force everyone else to change prices to comply. But my inclination, at least at first glance, is to suppose that using an app to normalize rental pricing as a way of protecting the landlord from making errors or lacking information. Correct me if I'm wrong, LR, but the software doesn't force anyone to charge certain prices, it just uses more data than you could gather manually and suggests a strategy, right? If so, how could these guys be attributing their ability to charge huge price increases to the software? They are the ones choosing to do that! Maybe what they really mean is their consciences are made to feel better because it was someone else's suggestion, so that can absolve themselves of charging unwarranted rate hikes?

Speaking of which, if you wanted to shift blame in the real estate sector you might want to look at realtors rather than software. The software has no skin in the game, but realtors make % commission and are always trying to drive prices as high as they can go, creating bidding wars if they can (sometimes by lying to people). It should go without saying that if real estate prices skyrocket so will rent levels. You don't need software to tell you that.

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2022, 01:37:48 PM »
It was a question about your reading comprehension skills

Yes, yes, you want to tell me how I can't read whilst simultaneously taking advantage of poor people. And then you pop up here to try to talk down to everyone else.

We see what you are.

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2022, 01:42:02 PM »
No, you really don't.

I'm going to go with you being too in love with your own cleverness to read properly but I may not have not have been sufficiently clear.

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2022, 01:47:14 PM »
Uh huh. I'm too stupid to read. Meanwhile, you're the landlord.

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2022, 02:00:02 PM »
Crunch would be proud of your moneymaking.

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2022, 02:01:38 PM »
Are you going to engage with what people are actually saying or will you just continue to fail at being clever?

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2022, 02:06:13 PM »
Alright. What are you saying. And just so you know, I'm clever enough.

DJQuag

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2022, 02:28:29 PM »
Was clever enough to trick you into admitting you're a liberal landlord.

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2022, 02:30:17 PM »
I don't think TheDrake's example of individual landlords looking on rent.com is equivalent to a whole bunch of them using an algorithm. Rent setting by "AI" is materially different than more analog means of data gathering and comparing. A new thought is that the use of a algorithm shifts the decision making from the individual market actor to a third party which feels like it should trip over the collusion threshold.

The second part was that we should probably stop landlords from doing this even if it doesn't count as collusion and price fixing under current law, though we might need new law to do it. That we shouldn't get hung up on existing rules about collusion and price fixing as the only measure of appropriate behavior but to consider the effects and whether or not we want to prohibit them.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2022, 02:37:01 PM »
we should probably stop landlords from doing this even if it doesn't count as collusion and price fixing under current law, though we might need new law to do it.

I'm not quite clear on what you think it is landlords need to be prevented from doing.

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2022, 02:45:40 PM »
Using an algorithm to maximize rents, or at least all using the same algorithm. I'm aware that turning that statement into something useful as a term of law would be very difficult.

Generally speaking, we should discourage landlords from maximizing rents, especially if properties are allowed to be vacant in pursuit of maximum rents.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2022, 03:21:08 PM »
Virtually all prices these days use an algorithm. It's called business intelligence software. Or did you think 7/11 was just sticking their thumb in the air to test the breeze?

Is this also unfair? BI for retail

Meanwhile, e-commerce dynamically adjust pricing based on spot demand, and hotels have set prices according to the ability of the visitor to pay, in some cases. Famous? You'll pay more for the exact same room.

I just don't get why apartments should be any different. What do you want to do, outlaw algorithms? Maybe rent control?

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2022, 03:35:10 PM »
People need housing, they don't need hotel rooms. Very few people are using food banks because the hotel room they got last weekend was marked up by an algorithm. Right now people are spending all or nearly of their income on rent and using food banks and other supports to make up the difference.

I would be surprised if we could effectively outlaw algorithms, even just for landlords. I think we will disagree on the need for and consequences of rent control.

Grant

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2022, 03:40:08 PM »
What do you want to do, outlaw algorithms?

Only algorithms that meet in a room behind Satriale's, smoking cigars, and all agree to raise the price based on what they believe the consumer can pay, and all agree to hold to that price so that the Users can make more $$$, and that Big Pus needs to be whacked. 

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2022, 07:39:45 PM »
Using an algorithm to maximize rents, or at least all using the same algorithm. I'm aware that turning that statement into something useful as a term of law would be very difficult.

I still don't understand. Do you mean people should for instance not be allowed to use the same calculator to do multiplications since it will give the same answer?

Quote
Generally speaking, we should discourage landlords from maximizing rents, especially if properties are allowed to be vacant in pursuit of maximum rents.

This seems to me more to the point of what you mean, in that you don't like anything giving landlords leeway to maximize profit. It seems to me your point should properly not really be about algorithms or landlords, but about either capitalism itself (a fair criticism if so) or about the distribution of living space specifically. I would understand a position that said it's unfair for private parties to have control over things like medical prices or living costs; but it's much harder to understand a tunneling in on an app that facilitates doing calculations using lots of data.

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2022, 07:48:30 PM »
An algorithm is not a calculator.  And the whole point of a free market is to have a whole bunch of people coming up with answers independently. That stops happening if everyone uses the same algorithm.

You go after the algorithm because it's a lot easier than going after the idea of landlords in general.

Tom

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2022, 07:50:06 PM »
I'm curious what a competing algorithm meant to empower renters might look like, and if it would even be useful.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2022, 08:12:31 PM »
An algorithm is not a calculator.  And the whole point of a free market is to have a whole bunch of people coming up with answers independently. That stops happening if everyone uses the same algorithm.

You go after the algorithm because it's a lot easier than going after the idea of landlords in general.

You're still not saying what the problem is, other than you don't like it. They shouldn't be allowed to each choose how to do pricing calculations however they choose, even if that choice is to do the calculations the same way? Do you mean to say that a "free" market should prohibit a given person using the same rationale for decision-making as someone else?

NobleHunter

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2022, 08:28:31 PM »
It's bad because it might be producing a result identical or similar to collusion and price fixing. If that's so, then why shouldn't we stop people from doing it?

Another problem is that the algorithm might be flawed. Like, you realize why command economies perform worse than free-market economies, right? Having an algorithm rather than a bureaucrat doesn't make the commanding better.

Grant

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2022, 09:09:07 PM »
It's bad because it might be producing a result identical or similar to collusion and price fixing. If that's so, then why shouldn't we stop people from doing it?

Yeah, but you can't arrest the algorithm for collusion because there is only one algorithm.  See, if there were two algorithms, and one algorithm brought the other algorithm to a strip joint for algorithms and they decided to fix prices at an artificial point that was higher than market value, then yes, you could arrest both the algorithms for collusion and put them both in algorithm jail.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2022, 10:15:33 PM »
It's bad because it might be producing a result identical or similar to collusion and price fixing. If that's so, then why shouldn't we stop people from doing it?

Another problem is that the algorithm might be flawed. Like, you realize why command economies perform worse than free-market economies, right? Having an algorithm rather than a bureaucrat doesn't make the commanding better.

I still don't get it. The app doesn't make the price, it just makes a recommendation. On what logic can the algorithm have any relevance to price fixing if it does not choose or fix the price? And note that in theory if every person in a marketplace independently makes a decision, and all decisions happen to be identical, even detrimental to consumers, that's not price fixing in any way understood under the current system. It just means it's a bad market for consumers. If that means sticky high prices with consumers being extorted, the government is free to initiate legislation including regulation, price controls, taxes, and so forth. But price fixing specifically entails a coordinated effort.

Personally I actually agree that quasi-cartels are a serious problem, but the solution to them isn't to be found in blaming individual actors or their pricing apps. It's more of a core problem with the system itself, and in its current form is really just another name for inflation. Apps don't cause inflation, although they can participate in it (i.e. predict increasing prices in markets and anticipate likely price points that will be accepted in the future). You know that the major financial institutions use programs as well to generate buy and sell signals? I doubt they all use the same one, but what if they did? The markets go all over the place because of these things either way, whether there's one app or many.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2022, 06:30:59 AM »
The solution to high rent is generally more housing. Unfortunately there's a variety of factors fighting against that, one of the primary ones is homeowners trying to guard their value, and people terrified about low income people bringing crime to their neighborhood. All the algorithms do is make things more efficient. It would be entirely legal and ethical to let all these property owners have a conference and give lectures on how to set prices, I don't see why this is different. In both cases, the violation occurs when parties agree on a price and prevent competition. The algorithm doesn't prevent competition, it streamlines it. Don't be sad because it is exposing the true market value of property by removing information and analysis barriers.

My go to for fixing the problems, apart from having more housing, are subsidized housing increases  section 8, and wage hikes. You could increase taxes paid by landlords and then feed it back to their tenants. I'm not sure if this would lead the algorithm to full ouroboros or not.

LetterRip

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2022, 02:11:11 PM »
Quote
All the algorithms do is make things more efficient.

Actually the algorithms DON'T just make things more efficient.  They are specifically recommending keeping units empty rather than take a lower price in order to maximize rents.  That isn't rational on an individual basis, only via coordinated action, because a single or handful of units more or less doesn't have much impact on total supply, but 20,000 less units drastically reduces supply.

Also they coordinate prices.  Normally these groups would be competing against each other, including on price, but with a central price setting there is no price competition.

I think there is a really strong case for price fixing.

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2022, 02:55:39 PM »
These units are not a commodity, for starters. And what makes you think any supplier is supposed to maximize production? Not every factory pumps out as many items as possible. To maximize profit, it may be inevitable to have units empty, the only question is for how long? Central price suggesting is not central price setting. Any of those landlords can make all of those same decisions, most of them would continue to make those decisions now that the algorithm has shown them how to do it.

From a NY Times article:

Quote
Patterned after the technology used to price airline tickets and hotel rooms, the software weighs competitors’ rental rates, market conditions, seasonal trends and hundreds of other variables to recommend the highest feasible rent for each apartment at a given time.

If this approach hasn't run afoul of anti-competition laws in those fields, why would it here?

Quote
Now landlords with as few as 3,000 units are testing the technology, which is chiefly produced by two companies, the Rainmaker Group of Alpharetta, Ga., which sells a program called Rainmaker LRO (for lease rent options); and RealPage Inc., of Carrollton, Tex., which calls its version YieldStar Price Optimizer.

So its not just one overlord algorithm. There are two of them. Wouldn't this create a great opportunity for any landlord with fewer than 3000 units to make a killing undercutting those algorithm boys?

Quote
Shea Properties had eschewed one-month leases, for example, before YieldStar began suggesting pricing options that made short-term deals worthwhile. At the Madrid Apartments in Mission Viejo, Calif., the company recently rented out a $1,200-a-month unit on a one-month lease for $3,000, a sum Mr. Gilmore says the company would not have thought to ask for before it began relying on revenue management software.

That's not price fixing.

Quote
In initial testing, Equity Residential found it was able to raise revenue 3 to 5 percent at complexes using Rainmaker LRO, Mr. Romano said. That persuaded company leaders to buy the software for the entire portfolio.

5 percent doesn't appear to be a crisis of housing price hikes. It certainly might be more than some renters can manage, but I don't think its some huge game changer.

Quote
Multifamily landlords say the systems have proved particularly useful with lease renewals, because it takes emotion out of the process.

“Now it’s more about the analytics,” said Bryan Pierce, the revenue manager at Holland Residential in Vancouver, Wash., which uses Rainmaker LRO at 63 of its 70 properties. “Maybe this person is paying 15 percent below market, and as much as we love them, maybe it’s time to let them move on and capture that 15 percent.”

Not price fixing. Its a mental shift that allows the landlord to shove aside any ethical questions about pricing families out of the housing market. Now you may well shake your fist at those landlords and cry, "Don't you realize you're putting people on the street with your greed?!" But this doesn't mean there's anything other than just the brutality of an uncaring market. In fact, ignoring the algorithm's advice might land you in hot water with your REIT owners, if you are a land management company with a fiduciary duty to maximize their profit.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2022, 02:59:44 PM »
They are specifically recommending keeping units empty rather than take a lower price in order to maximize rents.  That isn't rational on an individual basis, only via coordinated action, because a single or handful of units more or less doesn't have much impact on total supply, but 20,000 less units drastically reduces supply.

You would be quite incorrect in the case of commercial renting, to name a classic example. Commercial rental properties are known to sometimes leave a unit vacant, even for years at a time, waiting for the big $$$ client with a big brand name to come in and pay good money and be stable. They are giving up mid-low rents for sometimes quite a while waiting for the big fish. And what we may be seeing now (if the article is correct) is that residential landlords can use the same logic, waiting for a slightly bigger (or more desperate) fish even if that means leaving an apartment vacant for a few months. I doubt they will leave such a place empty for years like commercial landlords do, but who knows. It's all a question of cash flow: if you give up (let's say) $500/month for 3 months, and finally land a tenant who'll pay $650, it will take 10 months to recoup the $1,500 lost with the extra $150/month gained. How is that irrational on an individual basis? Now whether they can achieve a $150/month gain or not is a business decision and a risk assessment problem.

Quote
Also they coordinate prices.  Normally these groups would be competing against each other, including on price, but with a central price setting there is no price competition.

Taking your advice from the same source is not coordinating prices. They are free to agree or disagree with the app as they please and choose any price they want. I think you are wrong that landlords compete against each other, any more than realtors really compete against each other. At best it's a cooperative competition, where all participants gain by certain activities done by the group. For instance, would a realtor charging a 5% commission gain by undercutting the competition and offering 4%, or 3%? Not really, because if the whole realtor market got forced into an under-bidding war the entire industry would lose huge amounts of income, and the realtor thinking they'll steal away a few clients at 3% would now be stuck with that forever, even once they grow. No one wants that, and it's not price fixing to recognize that the industry as a whole benefits from certain standards being maintained. Same would go for landlords - why would a landlord gain by lowering rents to "compete" against the other landlords, when he can already fill he units at the market price? Is he a market vigilante or crusader? And if other landlords followed suit and there was a rental price deflation, what if they now couldn't make profits due to all their costs inflating wildly with rents deflating? What you'd see might be a combination of property deflation, which they definitely do not want, especially if they're highly leveraged, and also slumlord behavior where they can no longer afford renovations so they refuse to give tenants any services. How does this benefit anyone?

Now I'll be the first to say that the whole situation is deeply problematic. I think wild inflation causes problems so severe that, if you observe Sri Lanka, you can see it take apart entire poorer nations. The underclasses in America being faced with steep rental price increases is a serious problem, but I just can't see how using an app to predict that tenants will pay higher prices is the fault of the app or the landlords successfully taking this advice. If it's true that they can increase income in this way then the problem, if there is one, lies in the fact that (like in the medical system) people absolutely need living space and are subject to paying whatever prices to market states they must. Governments talk about creating new housing and so forth, but if inflation goes too quickly to combat in that manner what we are talking about is a problem with capitalism, not a problem with apps or landlords.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2022, 03:01:58 PM by Fenring »

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2022, 03:18:10 PM »
It's not just housing.

Quote
In a recent study, economists looked at the impact of AI algorithms on gasoline prices. Their goal was to assess the impact of the algorithms that compose artificial intelligence. To gather data, they looked at three kinds of markets in Germany. The first had always existed. Humans did all the pricing. However, after 2017, many gasoline stations adopted algorithmic pricing software. As a result, there was a second kind of market in which one station was human but its neighbor had the algorithm technology. Then, the third was entirely algorithmic. Two competing gasoline stations each used software to price their gasoline.

Overall the new software increased profits for all stations that adopted it unless they already had a monopoly. The real difference was for two competing stations. When both let the technology determine pricing, mean margins (the difference between wholesale and retail prices) was 30 percent. But it did take time. Researchers hypothesize that it took the algorithms a year to learn the collusive tactics.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: price fixing through shared algorithmic price setting
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2022, 03:37:53 PM »
I think quasi-cartel characteristics, i.e. de facto (but not actual) price colluding is a blight so severe and so unstoppable in the so-called free market that it alone undermines the validity of such a system. But that's another conversation. Basically the theory that free choice in pricing creates optimal conditions for all participants is laughable.