Russian War Crimes

[DJQuag]

So I know whataboutism is a thing, and I also know some *censored* went down in Iraq and Afghanistan, and, yes, Guantanamo Bay, that left the US looking less then pristine.

But the *censored* coming out of Ukraine is next level, horrifying stuff. Not up to WW2 Nazi levels, but only because they've not had the time and resources to scale it up. Ideawise? They are absolutely on point. Julia Davis on twitter, follow her, you can watch the propogandists cheering everything happening. How Ukrainians aren't real people.

https://i.redd.it/n78d1bvjnmo91.jpg

A family. Killed, and thrown in a mass grave.

There's another video out there, of a mass grave being filled in. There's a naked dead guy, hands tied behind his back. He tumbles down the slope.

The real horrifying *censored*? One of the "corpse's" head moves when he lands. He was half buried, shot, and just laying there pretending to be dead in the hope he could maybe dig himself out of his own grave.



When the war is over, how should we respond?

[DJQuag]

I should probably mention the tens of thousands of children who have been kidnapped, told their parents don't want them, and are currently being raised as good Russian children.

[Grant]

When the war is over, how should we respond?

Ughhh.  Can cross that bridge when we get there.  I can't see where the war ends.  It could be today.  It could be next year.  There is an extremely slim, but not zero, chance that it ends in nuclear war.  If it goes there, tracking down some *censored* who murdered a single family or even a handful will be the least of everyone's worries. 

The Ukrainians are really really good at tracking down who does this type of *censored*.  They got hordes of OSINT crusaders on their side, not to mention just about the entire hacking world.  They got lists of every single vatnik jackass in every single unit and their OSINT people can track faces and photos through so much internet sludge it boggles my mind.  I have a feeling that if the war doesn't end with Ukraine a smoldering radioactive ruin, the Ukrainians will be taking care of this kind of thing their own way, in much the same way the Israelis handled the 1972 Olympics.  Maybe they try to get somebody big extradited or try to set up some war crimes tribunal.  Russia's not going to go for it.  So they'll do it old fashioned-like.  The Kerch bridge already shows that the SBU is starting to stretch it's muscles. 

How should WE respond?  I don't know.  Any peace with Russia is probably going to require a deal about some kind of international amnesty.  That may be one area where I can see crossing Ukraine or Zelenskyy.  They probably wouldn't be happy.  But at the same time, I don't feel like interfering with whatever the SBU cooks up.  Other than the obvious horrors of war, I am concerned that the Russians are bringing out some really dark stuff in the Ukrainians.  So far there have not been much international or media focus on many Ukrainian war crimes.  But when this kind of thing happens, it's easy to start retaliating in kind. 

[Grant]

I should probably mention the tens of thousands of children who have been kidnapped, told their parents don't want them, and are currently being raised as good Russian children.

All Ukrainians need to be returned for peace agreement. 

[msquared]

But according to Putin they are now Russians, having been adopted into Russian families. How dare you split up a nice stable Russian family you monster.

[DJQuag]

I should probably mention the tens of thousands of children who have been kidnapped, told their parents don't want them, and are currently being raised as good Russian children.

All Ukrainians need to be returned for peace agreement.

In a perfect world, yes. I think we both know that isn't going to happen.

[Grant]

In a perfect world, yes. I think we both know that isn't going to happen.

If the Russians want to be able to sell their gas in Europe again, and want assurances that NATO will put a leash on the Ukrainians when it comes to allowing them access in the Black Sea, and not deciding to just talk a walk up to Belgorod or Rostov on Don.  If they want assurances that NATO will not start regime change operations in Belarus.  If they want assurances that Ukraine will not suddenly turn up with some of their own nuclear weapons (how did they get those?!  Maybe the Israelis gave it to them! It must have come from Father Frost or St Nicolas!).  If Russia wants assurances that NATO will not continue to arm Ukraine with *censored* that will make them the absolute terror of Russia in 5 years, with a long memory of what they went through...

Then Russia will return all Ukrainians in Russia.  This is the least difficult term.  They don't give a *censored* about all those Ukrainians. 

[DJQuag]

They have a brain drain, and loss of population. They actually really want population numbers. 140 million today, but that number is looking to go down. Turns out Russians are super into condom usage because their country is so *censored* no sane person wants to have a kid there.

Tens of thousands of citizens, young and ready to be brainwashed? You best believe Russia will cling hard to them.

[Grant]

Tens of thousands of citizens, young and ready to be brainwashed? You best believe Russia will cling hard to them.

Not as hard as Ukraine wants them back.   They have no attachment.  Simply another bargaining chip.  They'd give them back for a shipload of new washers and dryers. 

[DJQuag]

Tens of thousands of citizens, young and ready to be brainwashed? You best believe Russia will cling hard to them.

Not as hard as Ukraine wants them back.   They have no attachment.  Simply another bargaining chip.  They'd give them back for a shipload of new washers and dryers.

In the bigger sense I get what you're saying, but...how do you track down every Ukrainian kid? They've been spread out through the Russian Federation and as sad as it is, I don't see a way to get them back.

[TheDeamon]

In the bigger sense I get what you're saying, but...how do you track down every Ukrainian kid? They've been spread out through the Russian Federation and as sad as it is, I don't see a way to get them back.

Thanks to modern technology, we have the means to make it happen, even if the Russians completely destroy the paper trail.

Russia's citizenry is really not going to like what that entails though.

DNA testing for every child living inside Russia's borders. Presumably their parents as well.

[DJQuag]

In the bigger sense I get what you're saying, but...how do you track down every Ukrainian kid? They've been spread out through the Russian Federation and as sad as it is, I don't see a way to get them back.

Thanks to modern technology, we have the means to make it happen, even if the Russians completely destroy the paper trail.

Russia's citizenry is really not going to like what that entails though.

DNA testing for every child living inside Russia's borders. Presumably their parents as well.

In what world are you living in where Russian citizens agree to DNA tests for every child?

[TheDeamon]

Thanks to modern technology, we have the means to make it happen, even if the Russians completely destroy the paper trail.

Russia's citizenry is really not going to like what that entails though.

DNA testing for every child living inside Russia's borders. Presumably their parents as well.

In what world are you living in where Russian citizens agree to DNA tests for every child?

One where Russia takes it in the face in a rather big way. if their government has no choice in the matter, there isn't much they can do about it.

[DJQuag]

Thanks to modern technology, we have the means to make it happen, even if the Russians completely destroy the paper trail.

Russia's citizenry is really not going to like what that entails though.

DNA testing for every child living inside Russia's borders. Presumably their parents as well.

In what world are you living in where Russian citizens agree to DNA tests for every child?

One where Russia takes it in the face in a rather big way. if their government has no choice in the matter, there isn't much they can do about it.

C'mon man. This level of subservience would require NATO joining the war and EU troops marching through Red Square. We all hope Ukraine kicks the *censored* out of the Russkies, but that? That is not going to happen.

[Grant]

In the bigger sense I get what you're saying, but...how do you track down every Ukrainian kid? They've been spread out through the Russian Federation and as sad as it is, I don't see a way to get them back.

You underestimate mothers and clerks. 

Somewhere, there is a dude who wrote down where these kids went.  Under the assumption that they MIGHT want to be able to give them back one day in return for a washing machine or a crate of Irish whiskey.  If there is not, there is another politician or civil servant or military officer who knows the people who took the kids wherever they went.  They will ask for a list and if the clerk says there isn't one, a gun will be placed against their head and they will be encouraged to remember, very hard, where the children went.  This is the Russian Way.  If it does not achieve 100% return of Ukrainian adults and children, I can rest assured that it will reach 99%, which should be acceptable. 

[DJQuag]

In the bigger sense I get what you're saying, but...how do you track down every Ukrainian kid? They've been spread out through the Russian Federation and as sad as it is, I don't see a way to get them back.

You underestimate mothers and clerks. 

Somewhere, there is a dude who wrote down where these kids went.  Under the assumption that they MIGHT want to be able to give them back one day in return for a washing machine or a crate of Irish whiskey.  If there is not, there is another politician or civil servant or military officer who knows the people who took the kids wherever they went.  They will ask for a list and if the clerk says there isn't one, a gun will be placed against their head and they will be encouraged to remember, very hard, where the children went.  This is the Russian Way.  If it does not achieve 100% return of Ukrainian adults and children, I can rest assured that it will reach 99%, which should be acceptable.

I'm generally cynical, and so I'll stay cynical on this. But your scenario sounds really nice, and from your lips to God's ears, my friend.

[Grant]

I'm generally cynical, and so I'll stay cynical on this. But your scenario sounds really nice, and from your lips to God's ears, my friend.

Oh, I'm cynical as well, just in a different way. 

I'm cynical concerning the absolute evil ability of the FSB to track people down in their own country by threatening tons of people with execution.   

[NobleHunter]

I'm sort of hoping there's a coup and the new regime uses the Hague to dispose its opponents. The utility of being able to have an at least theoretically impartial authority try your opponents for war crimes cannot be overstated.

[Grant]

I'm sort of hoping there's a coup and the new regime uses the Hague to dispose its opponents. The utility of being able to have an at least theoretically impartial authority try your opponents for war crimes cannot be overstated.

The chance of a coup in Russia putting in a leader substantially better than Pooter is probably <50%.  The only forces that could reasonably depose Pooter is the Army, and the FSB.  Both of them are fully culpable in the invasion.  The impetus for a coup would be that the FSB and the Army don't feel like going down with Pooter, and the rest of the country agrees.  So the deal is pullout from Ukraine, including Crimea, returning children, in return for ending the war, ending sanctions, flowing gas into Europe, ending weapons sales to Ukraine, no nukes in Ukraine, and general amnesty. 

[DJQuag]

Russia is so *censored*ed up, we all look at it as obvious. It's not obvious for them.

Y'all need to look at this like a Fox News situation. If Putin goes down tomorrow, he'll be replaced by some asshat who pushes just the same crap. This is by design. The entire system has been designed for exactly this type of *censored*. They know there will be protests, they don't care, and they'll ride it out. Russia is gonna Russia.

[DJQuag]

Here's an article and picture of a box of gold fillings extracted from Ukrainians.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/bucket-of-gold-tooth-fillings-among-grim-discoveries-in-ukraine-town/ss-AA12LWYf?ocid=st#image=2

Huh. That kind of looks familiar. Where have we seen that before? Oh well. Good thing Russia is working hard to deNazify Ukraine.

[DJQuag]

The gold teeth are gonna take the headline, but don't y'all forget how they mentioned "torture chambers" and "gas masks."

[DJQuag]

Rape is a military strategy now, apparently.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/15/europe/russia-ukraine-rape-sexual-violence-military-intl-hnk/index.html

Ammo, food, socks. Oh yeah. Brass said I'd need Viagra on the front lines. Almost forgot that.

[DJQuag]

Btw I was joking about them having socks, conscripts are being given foot wraps.

[DJQuag]

It's one thing if the occasional bad apple does something rotten. It's an entirely different thing if their command structure is actually telling them to do the rotten things.

[DJQuag]

Since this is a thread for Russian war crimes, here's an old mother telling us how her son got shotgunned to death.

https://v.redd.it/3tpmynwzswt91

And then apparently they threw her in the river, because Russians gonna Russian.