Author Topic: Self-suicide vs Suicide by cop (paging LR)  (Read 1815 times)

Pete at Home

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Self-suicide vs Suicide by cop (paging LR)
« on: June 28, 2016, 04:53:51 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/health/suicide-rates-rise/

Unfortunately, the last decade of change has not been, for most of us, a decade of increased hope.

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In 2014, 13 people out of every 100,000 took their own lives, compared with 10.5 per 100,000 in 1999. The suicide rate increased every year from 1999 to 2014 among both women and men and in every age group except those 75 and older.
"The increase is broad-based," said Sally C. Curtin, a statistician at the National Center for Health Statistics and lead author of the new report, which was released Thursday.
Such an increase in suicides could also make prevention efforts more difficult. "If it were just one particular group, you could say 'that is where we need to focus,' " Curtin said.
The report is the first since 1999 to look at suicide rates among all age groups, she said.
The number of suicides increased among all racial groups except for black males, who saw an 8% decline in suicide rate from 10.5 to 9.7 per 100,000 between 1999 and 2014, respectively. The largest increases were among American Indians and Alaska Natives; in this group, the suicide rate climbed by 89% among women and 38% among men. Suicide rates among white women and white men increased by 60% and 28%, respectively.

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it is difficult to know why suicide rates increased so much among American Indians and Alaska Natives

That's a silly thing to say.  Globally, ethnic minorities as well as immigrants (whether legal or illegal) have higher suicide rates.  The American analysts, since they don't seem to look outside America, are perhaps stumped or tongue-tied at why American Black Males have such a LOW suicide rate, since surely we agree that they are generally a disadvantaged minority.  Should we presume that American black males are 8% less likely to commit suicide because of Obama hope factors?

Consider the facts and figures presented in this article:  http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

charts increase from 2013 to 2016 in killing of black people by American police

also, It's NOT ABOUT CRIME; fewer than 1 in 3 black people killed by police in America were suspected of a previous crime.

More shockingly, the article claims there's NO correlation between level of crime*** in US cities, and propensity of cops to kill people.

*** (My bs meter fizzed on that last statement since it spoke of "crime" generally rather than VIOLENT crime specifically.  Seems to me that cops presumably should not be killing people according to their criminality, but rather in order to prevent imminent lethal violence. So I'd like to see a chart comparing number of people killed in a city, to number of police killed on the beat.  Does anyone know of such a statistic?)

My question is, could the increase in the number of black males being killed by police, and the disproportionately high number of black males being killed by police in the first, be accounted for at all by the disproportionately lower and falling rates of suicide among American black males?

Is it possible that after a layoff, a bad breakup, or other circumstances in which other people might be tempted to take their own lives, that a black male is more likely than say, a white man, an Asian man, or a Native American man or woman, to advance on a cop with his hands held high, holding a knife, shouting shoot me you mother-smoocher?

I think society has seriously failed black men by giving them such a tempting, glorious, and facile means of self-destruction.  They don't even have to pull their own trigger.  What could tempt more stupid young men to self-destruction than tell them they can be remembered as martyrs if they kill themselves by a socially approved kamikaze ritual?

Pete at Home

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Re: Self-suicide vs Suicide by cop (paging LR)
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2016, 06:05:05 AM »
I think that we could greatly reduce the numbers of black males killed by police officers with more training on use of tasers and body cams, and laws that permit posting peaceful resolution of attempted suicide by cops to the news and youtube.  I believe that anyone who approaches a police officer knife in hand, or pretending to draw from the hip, etc., forfeits his right to anonymity.  More importantly, putting these events in the public eye would deglamorize the activity, and perhaps shed light on what we can do as a society to bring more hope and less desperation.  More jobs, better roads, more available psych meds, would, I suspect, reduce both police homicide of black male victims and also reduce suicide among other groups.

TheDeamon

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Re: Self-suicide vs Suicide by cop (paging LR)
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2016, 11:28:39 AM »
*** (My bs meter fizzed on that last statement since it spoke of "crime" generally rather than VIOLENT crime specifically.  Seems to me that cops presumably should not be killing people according to their criminality, but rather in order to prevent imminent lethal violence. So I'd like to see a chart comparing number of people killed in a city, to number of police killed on the beat.  Does anyone know of such a statistic?)

I think the actual number of police (intentionally) killed is actually fairly low all things considered, given the amount of media attention "cop killers" get when such things happen. Of course, those are the ones that kill a cop and manage to get away, so I guess there probably are a number of other incidents that happen which don't get much more than local attention because the suspect was apprehended almost immediately.

The things that are more likely to get a police officer killed is a traffic stop or responding to a traffic accident, and not because the persons directly involved in those events are a threat(although that happens too). But because the other motorists tend to be idiots, and cause new accidents--which that officer gets to physically participate in all too often.

Want a better outcome during a traffic stop? Remove your vehicle from traffic to the maximum extent possible before stopping.

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I think society has seriously failed black men by giving them such a tempting, glorious, and facile means of self-destruction.  They don't even have to pull their own trigger.  What could tempt more stupid young men to self-destruction than tell them they can be remembered as martyrs if they kill themselves by a socially approved kamikaze ritual?

Given how some of the families have made out in these cases, I wouldn't completely rule it out. But that's where things like body cameras on the Officer come in handy as well, as it removes all doubt in regards to the how and why of the response that followed. Suicide by a cop who has no recording equipment anywhere nearby is going to play out much better(for their family getting money from various sources) than suicide by a cop with a body camera running recording everything you did beforehand to provoke their (lethal) response.

Pete at Home

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Re: Self-suicide vs Suicide by cop (paging LR)
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2016, 01:24:47 PM »
What I'm hoping we can show (since it's the easiest and fastest way to reduce black male deaths) is a botcheed attempted suicide by cop, where a trained, careful, and heroic cop uses nonlethal force such as Taser to subdue.  Get a few of these tweakers on youtube, with full autotune specials.

There's precedent for this.  When Japan realized that part of it's huge youth suicide rate was due to illusions of "honor," they shattered the honor by FINING the parents of young suicides.  This harsh and insensitive law, amazingly, had the desired results: Suicides among young students LITERALLY HALVED overnight.

De-romanticize getting killed by cop, and the death numbers will drop.

I've spent time wondering why in the world Marissa Johnson, grave dancer extraordinaire, would speak so viciously against cop body cams, and it strikes me that's the reason.  Because showing how it happened would deflate her myth, and she gains power with each black young man who drops dead.