Author Topic: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism  (Read 4459 times)

Pete at Home

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I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« on: July 19, 2016, 06:30:05 PM »
Indian gang rapists out on their own recognisance, go back to try to rape the same "untouchable" woman

Here's what I don't get about fundamentalist Hinduism. If they are "untouchable" don't they have to touch them to rape them?  and if this has nothing to do with fundamentalist hinduism, then how come these religion and caste-based rapes and murders continue to climb feverishly with the ascendancy of hindustani party that murdered Mahatma Gandhi?

Modi never should have been taken off the no fly list.

DJQuag

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2016, 07:34:36 PM »
I don't agree with putting people on the no fly list for political reasons. They shouldn't be on it unless there is reason to believe that they're liable to hijack or blow up a flight.

If you're saying you don't want him allowed in the country, there are legitimate procedures that could have that result. Whether it would be wise to ban the democratically elected leader of the world's biggest democracy, and natural ally against both Pakistan and China, from entering the country is a different question entirely.

Pete at Home

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2016, 07:48:50 PM »
I don't agree with putting people on the no fly list for political reasons. They shouldn't be on it unless there is reason to believe that they're liable to hijack or blow up a flight.

If you're saying you don't want him allowed in the country, there are legitimate procedures that could have that result. Whether it would be wise to ban the democratically elected leader of the world's biggest democracy, and natural ally against both Pakistan and China, from entering the country is a different question entirely.

What you say is true.  On the other hand, democracy is neither the only value nor the most important value.  I'm ok with compromising democracy to say no to Genocide.    it's like Churchill said about speaking for the devil when Hitler invades hell.

DJQuag

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2016, 07:54:34 PM »
Who's getting genocided in India?

Pete at Home

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2016, 09:42:04 PM »
Google modi guyarat muslim massacre mass burning genocide,

For the history of how modi deserved to go up on the no fly list

DJQuag

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2016, 09:44:58 PM »
Yeah, I had at least a general idea of what had happened. My point is that it was a massacre. A slaughter. It was not genocide. That word has a meaning, what happened doesn't match it.

Pete at Home

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2016, 12:52:08 AM »
Yeah, I had at least a general idea of what had happened. My point is that it was a massacre. A slaughter. It was not genocide. That word has a meaning, what happened doesn't match it.

I didn't say that it was a genocide. It was a sort of popular massacre that history teaches us inspires genocide if people don't stand up and hold the leaders accountable.  Krystalnacht was a massacre, not a genocide, but it led to genocide, because the international community failed hold those in charge accountable and to recognize what he was.

actually, the massacres in Guyarat make krystalnacht look pretty tame in comparison.

DJQuag

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 02:39:50 AM »
"to say no to Genocide."

You chose some poor wording, then.

Pete at Home

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 03:19:03 AM »
"to say no to Genocide."

You chose some poor wording, then.

History has shown us that ethnic massacres egged on by and not restrained by the government tend to be foreplay to genocide.  If you tend to initiate sex by reaching across your significant other from the right grabbing her  left nipple, and one night she tells you, she doesn't want sex, do you tell her she's chosen poor wording since you only grabbed her left nipple?  If you do, you're still not getting any.

DJQuag

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 03:35:31 AM »
Let me put it like this. There were bad riots, the Muslims were ounumbered, and more of them died then did Hindus. Many more. Apparently the current Indian PM excused and perhaps condoned and even encouraged this. Okay then.

That's not genocide. He's not attempting, nor did he try, to commit genocide. This is not a run up to attempted genocide. You don't like the guy, fine, and probably for valid reasons, but it doesn't make him genocidal.

Racism used to mean something. Now, it means a lot less. It's meaning has been diluted. Genocide is the same, hearing it tends to catch my attention, but I guess I'll just accept to ignore it when you use the word.

Pete at Home

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2016, 04:29:53 AM »
Let me put it like this. There were bad riots, the Muslims were ounumbered, and more of them died then did Hindus. Many more.

Muslim wives and children were raped and then burned alive in front of their husbands and fathers.  Go look at the images that Modi had at his disposal, while egging it on, before you tell me that it wasn't genocide. There's one in particular, taken by a gloating hindustani who was bragging to his online friends, of a Muslim man on his knees, eyes brimming with tears, pleading for the mob to not burn his daughter alive.  None of those Muslim victims had anything to do with the previous incident where Hindus died.  It was pure scapegoating.

democracy and rule of law are important values, but there are other values such as truth, life, and human decency. 

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That's not genocide. He's not attempting, nor did he try, to commit genocide. This is not a run up to attempted genocide. You don't like the guy, fine, and probably for valid reasons, but it doesn't make him genocidal.

On the contrary, there is a lot to like about Modi. His economic transformation of Guyarat is the niftiest thing since Hitler built the autobahn and launched the people's car to bring more people into the middle class.  But he belongs to a party that murdered Ghandhi, and that employs the threat of genocide to subdue religious and ethnic minorities.  I never said he was 'genocidal" ( don't know whether he is) but his flirtation with genocide, his propensity to whip up massacres that verge on genocide and lead to genocide, that's enough for us to "say no to genocide."  You seem to be taking the queer position that the only proper time to say no to Genocide is when the Genocide is well-underway.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 04:36:35 AM by Pete at Home »

Pete at Home

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2016, 05:45:47 AM »
Quote
He's not attempting, nor did he try, to commit genocide. This is not a run up to attempted genocide

I disagree. I think the waters were being tested, and that Powell and Rice's handling of the situation, including putting  Modi on the no fly list, and other international outrage forced Modi to change his style, and averted what likely would have been a full blown genocide in Guyarat. 

I know what you mean by diluting a word, but that's not what's going on here.  Verified deaths of  deaths of 790 Muslims, plus 300 missing,  2,500 Muslims suspected dead and 2500 verified injured ... that's certainly more than the 50 deaths at Rakak that Clinton and albright called "genocide" to justify attacking Serbia.  I'm not diluting the word.

NobleHunter

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2016, 11:18:10 AM »
He should only be on the no-fly list if there's evidence he'd attempt to hijack or destroy the plane. The list is there to make travel safer, not to express disapproval or even inhibit the travel of people who may commit some other crime.

Okay, technically the list is there to make travel appear to be safer but if we're going to pretend security theatre is effective we should at least take it at face value.

Pete at Home

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Re: I really don't understand fundamentalist Hinduism
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2016, 11:53:09 AM »
He should only be on the no-fly list if there's evidence he'd attempt to hijack or destroy the plane. The list is there to make travel safer, not to express disapproval or even inhibit the travel of people who may commit some other crime.

I disagree. The no fly list is very much about inhibiting rapid travel for commission of other crimes. and with Modi, using it to express disapproval was a key part of the international pushback that pressured him into apologizing and dialing back from a possible genocide.