Author Topic: What effect would actual "gun control" have?  (Read 10279 times)

ScottF

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What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« on: August 11, 2019, 12:08:56 PM »
Let's say the most ardent gun control folks get their wish and a law is passed banning assault weapons. Let's even assume the definition of "assault weapon" is incredibly broad. Lastly, assume that the gun show loophole around background checks is removed, so every single purchased firearm is subject to a background check.

Would that prevent the kinds of shootings we're seeing? Canada had a voluntary registration initiative when I was a kid where all firearms had to be registered with the RCMP. If I recall you had a year to register them, after which they would technically be illegal. Would something like that work in the US?

I've never heard gun control advocates get into any of the logistics of how this would work. I also haven't heard any coherent response when they're told that background checks were non-factors in many/most of the recent shootings. Struggling to figure out where “do something” intersects with doing something that actually works.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 12:16:26 PM by ScottF »

Seriati

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Re: What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 10:47:15 AM »
ScottF, background checks are more often than not non-issues because they don't turn up the kinds of things that would prevent a gun buy.  If you are legally barred from owning a gun - sure - but that would pretty much be things like having a felony record (after you're an adult, most of the stuff you did before 18 wouldn't show). 

Mental health?  Not very likely, it would generally have taken a health professional going to the police to assert you were a danger to yourself or others (and that's something they are reluctant to do even when warranted).  Couple that with the ability to voluntarily stop seeing a mental health professional at any time after 18, and someone really sick will never even be in the position in the first place.

These shootings don't track well to illegal purchases.

There is no "gun show loophole" that's just a talking point.  The "loop hole" is the private sale provision, which is what allows a person to sell a gun to a family member - or even give it a as a present, or to see a collector's piece to an interested buyer without going through a dealer.  Heck, for many years you could order guns out of a catalog that were sent through the mail.  To get a license from the ATF you have to be in the gun sale business, they won't even consider a large private collector who buys and sells several guns a year for registration.

Registration?  Not seen a sensible method of doing it, or one argument for how it would help.

I think demystifying guns would help.  I think encouraging women to carry guns would help.  It's not a coincidence that young men are behind most gun crime (well honestly, behind most violent crime).  Let's not be PC here, a program that focused on young men and required extra vetting of them would be the single most effective and reasonably limited thing that has a chance to fix these problems.  Not to mention it would go a long way to addressing the "unspoken" gun crimes that make up the massive amount of actual gun deaths (murders by gangs, and people someone knows).

You can't adequately fix suicide risk with our current "voluntary only" mental health system (nor would you like living under a system where pyschologists have to certify you mentally healthy before you have rights).

ScottF

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Re: What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 11:19:21 AM »
Your comment on the gun show loophole thing made me look it up and you're right. It's got nothing to do with gun shows and is simply about non-licensed sellers not needing to do background checks, which just happens at gun shows more often than not.

I don't disagree with you about young men being the issue, but extra vetting only would only work if there's a straight line between a gun purchase/registration and said young man. I think in many of these cases no such line exists so that approach wouldn't be effective.

Seems to me the only people who are arguing a position with even a sniff of credibility (and honesty) are those who are looking at deconstructing the 2A entirely. Problem is you'd still need a mechanism to account for the 400M weapons out in the wild.

I'm fairly convinced there is no pragmatic way to deal with the US's problem around mass shootings without taking actions that neither side would accept. I also realize that statistically, it's not the most effective place to even focus when it comes to gun deaths but as long as the media drive the narrative it's essentially impossible to not be treated as such.

D.W.

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Re: What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 11:31:55 AM »
The only reason I think an 'assault weapon ban' may have an impact is that grandpa's deer rifle just doesn't accommodate the same action-(anti)hero fantasy as something that looks like a military weapon.  These things exist to market a soldier fantasy to the buyers.  Their niche, is I suppose defense of home when under siege by an armed gang...  In pretty much any other situation a different firearm can either stand in for, or exceed their usefulness.  They are deadly toys, not tools/weapons.

While many buying into this fantasy are harmless, or served and just prefer the form of weapons they are familiar with, it just so happens that our "problems" are not harmless; but the fantasy is all important in how they view themselves as some sort of maligned 'warrior' out for vengeance/righteousness/martyrdom.

TheDrake

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Re: What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 11:39:41 AM »
Americans : gun control could never work. There will still be lots of shootings and we'll be vulnerable to government oppression.

Europeans : 🙄

rightleft22

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Re: What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 11:47:15 AM »
What effect would actual "gun control" have if assault weapons were banned?

Anyone with a assault weapon would be a criminal so that would simplify things in a way with  regards to the talking point that those with bad intent will always find a way to get their hands on them. True, however with such a law the intent to be responsible gun owner or not wouldn't matter. Much easier for the police to know who to arrest. 

Would that stop mass shooting in the US... probably not. Shooting is very much embedded in American culture. We really should get so upset about it.

D.W.

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Re: What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 11:58:52 AM »
Stop the sale of new.  Make them illegal to open carry.

Poof, they are now home defense weapons for the "you never know WHAT you may face" crowd, and range toys. 

Will it stop those getting them 2nd hand or those already 'out in the wild'?  Nope, but I don't think it would hurt to try. 

I'm a little more miffed about the magazine size restrictions.  Do you NEED more than 6?  Hard to say, probably in any self defense situation there's plenty of argument for it.  Anything but small-ish compact or subcompact pistols come standard with more than 6 though anymore unless it's a revolver. 

The biggest stumbling block over a strait up ban, making it illegal to own them, is it really should require a buyback program.  Like it or not, these are (often not cheep) pieces of property that were purchased when they were NOT illegal.  If they become so, I think at a minimum you better be able to claim the value of your confiscated/surrendered weapon on next year's taxes... 

ScottF

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Re: What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 12:22:25 PM »
I believe it's already illegal to open carry a rifle?

D.W.

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Re: What effect would actual "gun control" have?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 12:39:25 PM »
Depends on where, in many places it's legal.  In SOME of those places, it cannot be loaded. 

That's part of the stink currently about the threat of mass shooting.  It could be someone carrying (legally) as a form of political statement / protest.  Take a look online if yer interested.  Not sure on exact search terms, but you should find no shortage of people walking openly with assault rifles and their encounters with law enforcement where they go on about their rights and how they are doing nothing illegal. 

In case it wasn't obvious, young to middle aged white dudes.  :P