Author Topic: Ralph Northam  (Read 6112 times)

Seriati

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2019, 02:57:43 PM »
Democrat is accused of a bad thing. Democrats respond saying it should be investigated.
Republican is accused of a bad thing. Republicans respond saying it is a scam with no credibility.

Lol.  Not how I see it.

Democrat admits to an event, counterpart says it wasn't consensual.  Calls for an "investigation" that can't show any more information to delay issue until people forget.

Democrats spend weeks selling that they have to stop a nomination at any cost, run sham hearings with disgraceful misrepresentations (remember Bookers emails?), past the last second "surprise" and not terribly credible accusation appears - Dems insist on slow walking and delaying the nomination (that they vowed to stop at all costs).  "Supporting" accusations appear that are so ridiculous they can't be believed, main accusation fails to deliver any corroboration - even friends deny memory.  Main accuser inexplicably - and without any media follow up - lies about ability to travel.  Congress uses investigation time to interrogate about "bloofing" in high school yearbook and drinking in high school (pretty sure there was an 18 year drinking age at the time), while ignoring similar conduct in accusers yearbook.

Republicans interpret situation pretty much as the literal carry through of Democrats vow to stop nomination by any means.

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To me, the difference is that Democrats are more likely to police their own, at least recently.

Other than Franken who?  Republicans are far more likely to be forced to resign and to pay electoral consequences even where there are real electoral prices to be paid (e.g., treatment of Roy Moore vs. Bob Menendez).

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Democrats weren't talking about how nobody could corroborate whether Franken forcefully kissed Tweeden. Democrats didn't attack Tweeden for not coming forward for years. As far as I know Tweeden didn't get death threats.

Pictures, and bad timing.  That's all that took Franken down.  Franken wouldn't be forced to resign now.  I mean for goodness sake, the Democrat's nominated as their Presidential candidate a woman who was literally credited with the strategy of destroying her husband's paramours and victims to preserve his career.  In what world is that showing their moral character on this point?

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Then you had Roy Moore being accused and immediately you've got people coming out of the wordwork to defend him, demand physical evidence which they try to debunk when presented. Making every possible excuse for him. Eventually you saw some Republicans like Mitch McConnell call for him to drop out, but only after there were five accusers in the mix. Along with more residents who corroborated his behavior.

And he lost an election for a Senate seek that Republicans held for 40 years (?) with a Senate so balanced that it almost cost the people of that district an SC justice that they overwhelmingly supported.   Meanwhile, we still have Senator Menendez who was specifically protected because of the larger issues.

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It is unsurprising that neither party is going to try to defend someone accused who belongs to the other party, and will try to take full advantage of the

I'm just pointing out the hypocracy on it.  I didn't call for him to resign.  There's not enough proof for Fairfax to be forced out (at least that I know of - haven't followed up on everything).  The proper course is electoral.

Wayward Son

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2019, 03:35:49 PM »
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First of all, I don't think there is any way this results in a flip to Republican control without a new election.  Pretty sure that resignations can be timed to appoint replacements.

Good point.  But are you sure that any possible conspirators considered this before coordinating the release of the information?  Dirty tricksters have been known to be pretty dumb at times (e.g. the Watergate burglars).

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The left practically invented some of these dirty tricks.  As I mentioned, there's a pretty reasonable case to be made that they only won the governors mansion because of one.  The idea that publishing actually opposition research finds is some kind of dirty trick is a horse that has left the barn, and not an idea that anyone on the left supports (or did I miss a 2 year long investigation of a certain President that has it's origins in what is very likely fake opposition generated materials).

I'm not crying "conspiracy" merely because of the publication of these alleged actions.  It's the odd timing of these decades-old actions coming out within a week of each other, for the three people who would be governor that piques my interest. ;)

It's one thing to investigate possible wrong-doing by an elected official.  It's another thing to make sure all elected officials in line for the highest office in the State are investigated simultaneously, so that perhaps they are all removed from office until the member from the other party is put in place.  One is trying to make sure the office holder is not a crook; the other is trying to make sure your guy becomes the office holder.

And BTW, what are you referring to in "a 2 year long investigation of a certain President that has it's origins in what is very likely fake opposition generated materials?"  I know it's not the Muller investigation, since it was not based solely, or even primarily (AFAIK), on any particular opposition generated materials.

Seriati

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2019, 03:57:03 PM »
Lol, I don't find the timing "suspicious."  There's no question that it's intentional, I'd also bet that they are going full out to tar and feather other Democrats right now (and that there are other Oppo-Research firms looking for any Republican they can find to throw into the mix to make it "everyone's" issue).  Not sure why it takes some kind of over arching strategy to realize that throwing all the senior people in a state into the political blender is going to help the other party.  I doubt they care about which people get hit.

Interestingly though, the new guys seems to be a self own.  I'm guessing since he already knew he'd been in blackface before he saw no choice but to try and get in front of it with an admission.

Lol, sure the Mueller investigation wasn't.  The best estimate I've heard was that the FISA warrant was 50/50 without the fake materials (given the government's record in FISA - reports of over 99% success - that would make it one of the least credible applications of all time).  At the end of this process, I'm going to be very interested in seeing a credible original basis for this investigation - cause unlike you guys for whom the "ends" can justify the "means," at the moment all I can see is an incredibly explanation for what looks like full on malpractice by people from the DOJ and FBI.  In any other world they'd be the ones looking at some jail time.

TheDeamon

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2019, 04:10:05 PM »
You'd have a better case to reasonably argue that who someone was 30 years ago isn't a good representation of who they are now, but then you'd have to give up on a whole lot of leverage you want to play with in the future, so instead you're trying to invent new rules to the game.

Mitt Romney haircut. :)

Crunch

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2019, 04:21:12 PM »
Every time I think it can’t get better, it somehow does.

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NBC News has learned that Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax used profane language in a private meeting Monday night, while referring to his accuser, Dr. Vanessa Tyson.

Two sources tells us Fairfax said of Tyson: “F*ck that bitch.”

Is there anyone left in VA Democrat leadership that hasn’t paraded around in blackface or sexually assaulted someone? I mean, seriously, no wonder Democrats think there so much racism and misogyny in America, their party is rife with it.

TheDrake

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2019, 04:48:00 PM »
It is interesting to think about a subset of people that will embrace reformed gang members who have committed violent crimes, but condemn people who have reformed from racist Halloween costumes.

Some of these people advocate that convicted felons should not have to reveal their past on employment applications, as it would be prejudicial.

Crunch

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2019, 05:27:36 PM »
It is interesting to think about a subset of people that will embrace reformed gang members who have committed violent crimes, but condemn people who have reformed from racist Halloween costumes.

Some of these people advocate that convicted felons should not have to reveal their past on employment applications, as it would be prejudicial.

I seriously doubt you would say this if it had been a Republican. This thing in VA is vividly exposing the left and cementing the hypocrisy they embrace. It’s just amazing.

Sorry, the left created these rules. Now we all get to enjoy them. It’s too late to excuse racist behavior as youthful indiscretion. It’s too late to dismiss sexual assault by saying “*censored* that bitch” no matter how much you’d like to.

rightleft22

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2019, 05:42:54 PM »
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This thing in VA is vividly exposing the left and cementing the hypocrisy they embrace. It’s just amazing.

Not paying much attention to this however I thought it was the left with the loudest voices condemning Northam and demanding he resign. If so would that be the left following the "rules" make it not hypocrisy?

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It is interesting to think about a subset of people that will embrace reformed gang members who have committed violent crimes, but condemn people who have reformed from racist Halloween costumes.

Taking partisan politics out of statement - viewing is a physiological one - it is interesting what society will forgive and what they wont. I wonder is its the manner in how the story is told
I did see Ralph apologizing for the picture and he was a idiot.  All he had to say was that he was a young idiot but learned from the event. Same with Liam Neeson - Liam hinted that the event caused him to reflect on who he was and who he wanted to be as well as the danger of reacting to such a event vice responding, but its not coming across.

Crunch

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2019, 05:47:38 PM »
In case anyone is wondering why the left is looking to excuse the overt racism and a sexual assault, here it is:
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If the governor were to resign, the lieutenant governor -- Justin Fairfax-- would assume the office of governor for the duration of the governor's term...
If the lieutenant governor were elevated to the governorship or if the lieutenant governor resigned -- now a genuine possibility -- then the current president pro tempore of the State Senate "assumes the duties" of the lieutenant governor. Note that the president pro tempore does not assume the office of lieutenant governor. It is a subtle difference, but the office of lieutenant governor would be left open until the next statewide election in 2021.

The current president pro tempore of the Virginia Senate is Sen. Steve Newman of the Lynchburg area. Newman is a Republican -- a mild-mannered conservative who is well-liked on both sides of the aisle.

...

It is worth noting that the entire General Assembly is up for election this year and the state senate is currently 21-19 in favor of the Republicans. If the Democrats take control, they can elect their own president pro tempore of the Senate, who would then have his or her own senate vote and also be able to break ties.

That gets us up to Sunday of this incredible week. Since then, things have become even more strange.

...

Suddenly, [after the revelation that AG Mark Herring also wore blackface], Democrats like Sen. Mark Warner, who were calling for Northam to resign are pointedly not calling for Herring to resign. Why? Because he is the last of the three Democrats in the order of succession to the governor’s office. Next in line would be the Republican speaker of the House, Kirk Cox.

This is one hell of a conundrum for Democrats. It’s either sell their souls and embrace racism and sexual assault or completely lose control of  VA.

I’m not sure which choice they’ll make but I sure wouldn’t want to be black or a woman in VA after this, could be open season.  ;)

TheDrake

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2019, 06:14:04 PM »
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It is interesting to think about a subset of people that will embrace reformed gang members who have committed violent crimes, but condemn people who have reformed from racist Halloween costumes.

Some of these people advocate that convicted felons should not have to reveal their past on employment applications, as it would be prejudicial.

Let me help you with this. This subset of people are Democrats, who by and large are the unforgiving group when it comes to such things, particularly when it is their enemies. Meanwhile, they espouse forgiveness for people who have done true, serious, and lasting harm to people in the past.

I'm suggesting that there is fundamentally flawed logic when it comes to condemnation of people for one bad act in their past, but forgiveness for others. This is a criticism of Democrats.

But don't bother reading what I have to say, because I suppose in your eyes I'm a damn liberal and everything I say has to be wrong and partisan.

TheDeamon

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2019, 07:27:11 PM »
Is there anyone left in VA Democrat leadership that hasn’t paraded around in blackface or sexually assaulted someone? I mean, seriously, no wonder Democrats think there so much racism and misogyny in America, their party is rife with it.

"Pluck not the more in thine Brother's eye whilst ignoring the BEAM in thine own eye."

Or on the more secular side:
From practical experience, the people who see a particular fault in everybody else are typically so capable of doing  so because they have that same fault. (And will often be discovered to be far worse about it than the ones accused. Projection is a very real thing)

That or they're being OCD about it.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 07:29:46 PM by TheDeamon »

Crunch

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2019, 08:01:17 AM »
It seems like every single day brings a new one.

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Virginia Democratic Congressman Bobby Scott was made aware of allegations of sexual assault against now-Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax over a year ago by the alleged victim herself, ABC News has learned.

If Scott new, how many other Democrats knew and covered it up?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 08:05:49 AM by Crunch »

Seriati

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2019, 08:57:25 AM »
Not directly related to VA politicians, but fascinating double standard none-the-less.  Remember how Megyn Kelly was forced to resign from NBC for simply talking about how people thought blackface costumes were okay decades ago?  Well check out this article about Joy Behar's quite inconsistent treatment for actually wearing a black woman costume.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/photo-of-joy-behar-dressed-as-beautiful-african-woman

The only lesson I can glean from these stories and treatment is that no matter what Republicans will be held to a completely different and higher standard than Democrats.

Fenring

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2019, 09:16:17 AM »
Not directly related to VA politicians, but fascinating double standard none-the-less.  Remember how Megyn Kelly was forced to resign from NBC for simply talking about how people thought blackface costumes were okay decades ago?  Well check out this article about Joy Behar's quite inconsistent treatment for actually wearing a black woman costume.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/photo-of-joy-behar-dressed-as-beautiful-african-woman

The only lesson I can glean from these stories and treatment is that no matter what Republicans will be held to a completely different and higher standard than Democrats.

I haven't chimed in on this topic, but I'm not entirely sure the correct takeaway is that there's a double standard for Republicans and Democrats. It seems to me that the process of torching someone for thought crime is applied to liberals as well, but the issue is that it's essentially random and selective. With the mob mentality that has come with Twitter and social media, the concept of meming in the form of going after someone is about as constant as gusts of wind. Today we're at 80 MPH, tomorrow nothing, for no better reason than it's trending today and won't be tomorrow. So if there is an objection to be levied here it can't be that liberals aren't held to these standards, because recent stories prove they are. I think a more plausible objection is that there's no consistency on this matter, and that people are ostracized more or less at random, as the mob sees fit. In context specifically of that objection I think Crunch has a point, perhaps accidentally, which is that if this is going to be public policy then it should be treated either as public *law* or dismissed as hysteria. Either every single person 'guilty' of these things should be ousted, or else no one should be; anything else is arbitrary witch hunts. So I do somewhat agree that failure to witch hunt certain people suggests a sort of hypocrisy. My assessment would be that it isn't actually hypocrisy, however, but simply random institution of the ousting rule, where there is no unified and consistent mind at work to make sure these matters are applied evenly and fairly (as fair as witch hunting can be, anyhow). Since the random currents of trend seem to govern the ostracizations, I would argue that even if the principle of ousting was just (a huge "if")   if it's going to be applied unevenly then it should be completely banished as any sort of rule, and therefore stopped. Mind you, that's putting aside whether it's legitimate in the first place to oust people for thought crime; no less thought crimes committed long ago.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 09:24:47 AM by Fenring »

Seriati

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2019, 09:23:54 AM »
Fen, I disagree though.  80 mile an hour winds from the NW, may be chaotic and swirl around things, have slower parts and faster parts, and even occasionaly have eddies that blow in the opposite direction.  But the end result is still going to be a heck of a lot of movement to the SE.

The winds of our media, our entertainment and our social media all blow from behind the left into the faces of the conservative person.  I don't think anyone, with a straight face, could argue that if this controversy was transplanted into a Republican state that the full court press would be on.  It'd be every night on the news and the talk shows, with long segments of coverage and with overt statements directly linking it to "Trump" and flat out stating he was a racist too.  Ms. Milano and Bloomberg and the liberal billionaires would be out getting quoted, and the liberal activists would be filing recall petitions and filing novel suits for violation of their rights to enjoin any actions by those elected officials.

We have literally seen this play out again and again.   

Fenring

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2019, 09:31:53 AM »
The winds of our media, our entertainment and our social media all blow from behind the left into the faces of the conservative person.  I don't think anyone, with a straight face, could argue that if this controversy was transplanted into a Republican state that the full court press would be on.  It'd be every night on the news and the talk shows, with long segments of coverage and with overt statements directly linking it to "Trump" and flat out stating he was a racist too.  Ms. Milano and Bloomberg and the liberal billionaires would be out getting quoted, and the liberal activists would be filing recall petitions and filing novel suits for violation of their rights to enjoin any actions by those elected officials.

I think you're mixing together two different things here: the individual incidents of chasing people for thought crime, and the conclusions drawn each of these incidents. I don't know that the pattern of incidents proves that Republicans are targeted more than Democrats are. However on the second issue I think I would be in agreement with you that the conclusions drawn are not symmetrical. It does seem to be prevalent for one-off Democrats to be ousted (politically, or in Hollywood) and for the matter to reside in them alone, whereas when a Republican is caught the implication tables are drawn out and it always seems to lead back to speculations about the GOP or Trump specifically. This would indeed constitute a double standard, but in the realm of partisan politics rather than witch hunting. This aspect of the issue occurs post-witch hunt, when either the matter is dropped when the person quits/apologizes, or else the circumstance is used to "prove" a trend with the 'other side'. Since we already know that any issue at all can and will be used in partisan politics, and that in particular all the money seems to be in linking anything and everything to Trump, I would call this a problem with politics rather than a problem with witch hunting. And to whatever extent witch hunting itself *is also* a problem, it's a separate problem.

Seriati

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2019, 10:21:38 AM »
Fen, I'm not confusing two separate issues.  There is only one issue.  There's no legal consequence to having worn blackface.  There's very likely no legal consequence to the potential sexual assault (a lot of times the statute of limitations is expired on top of it being an unprovable case).

The only issue is the social political one.  Period. There is no "individual consequence" independent of the social demand.

Both sides have active dirty tricks specialists that are looking to pull down opponents.  The left also has an "independent" media that is looking to do this against conservatives (and occasionally actively buries or dismisses stories about those on the left).

Fenring

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2019, 10:49:28 AM »
Fen, I'm not confusing two separate issues.  There is only one issue.

Well, it could be that the political issues is the part of it that bothers you most, and I could see why.

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There's no legal consequence to having worn blackface.  There's very likely no legal consequence to the potential sexual assault (a lot of times the statute of limitations is expired on top of it being an unprovable case).

Why is the legal ramification relevant in a social ostracism context?

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The only issue is the social political one.  Period. There is no "individual consequence" independent of the social demand.

So tell me how James Gunn being fired has any political aspect to it beyond screwing one guy over.

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Both sides have active dirty tricks specialists that are looking to pull down opponents.  The left also has an "independent" media that is looking to do this against conservatives (and occasionally actively buries or dismisses stories about those on the left).

You suppose as you say this that the people pushing for firings are on a political side. And while it's no doubt true that the Venn diagrams overlap in terms of certain parties being both corporate, and private, and political, unless you think the myriad bloggers and Twitter activists are all political astroturf I don't think it's appropriate to reduce this issue to "both sides".

rightleft22

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2019, 01:40:52 PM »
Ok so I think I got the rules we are playing by

1. In a he said she said situation where no prof is available or possible
- Legally the decision goes to the accuser,
- Socially the decision goes to the accuser.

1-a. Left:
Character and morality matter, anything you have ever said, did or took a picture of can and will be used against you. Character is the worst thing you ever did, said or took a picture of.   There is no room for forgiveness or learning better. Who you are is defined by a single moment in time.
- exception: personal flaws may be OK as long as they are part of your personal narrative of "overcoming" and known before you become known. Often the means of becoming known. We love those stories don't we. Just maybe we may be more then a past folly.

1-b Right:
Character is not morality and does not really matter, unless what you did is illegal and proven… however if the end goal is the right goal all can be forgiven. 

When we discuss such matters I think that it’s important that were careful not to Generalize.  Most people live in and understand the gray.
Sadly, it’s the extremes that are loudest making it appear as if the extreme views are each group views 

D.W.

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2019, 03:10:01 PM »
If that was a joke, sorry for being so dim as to have missed it.
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- Legally the decision goes to the accuser,
In what world is this true?  Not the one I live in for certain.

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Character and morality matter, anything you have ever said, did or took a picture of can and will be used against you.
What do you mean took a picture of?  Seems you've obviously got something in mind here, but it makes no sense to me.


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There is no room for forgiveness or learning better.
Everyone's capacity for forgiveness is different.  What we will forgive depends entirely upon how obviously wrong we feel the "sin" was.  If you genuinely believe someone can "learn better" then you are, almost certainly, ready to forgive.  If however you believe that something is obviously wrong then there's nothing to learn.  You KNEW it was wrong.  You CHOSE to do it anyway.  Depending on what that thing was, and how many it hurts, you will be judged accordingly.  No opportunity to be forgiven is forthcoming. 

You MAY be given another chance to interact with society or the person making the judgement, but they will never "forgive you", they may just tolerate you as a person capable of the "sin" who now knows you won't tolerate them acting upon the impulse.  Like a sociopath who studies others and realizes they cannot do some things but don't really comprehend why that should be so, only that there are negative consequences for doing it.

There is no Right/Left break down on this.

I gotta reject the theory that "amoral actions justify moral goals" is a more common world view of the right and that "moral absolutism" is a more common world view of the left.  Even that falls squarely in the gray as far as I'm concerned.  It's just applied differently. 

Seriati

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2019, 04:09:44 PM »
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There is no room for forgiveness or learning better.
Everyone's capacity for forgiveness is different.  What we will forgive depends entirely upon how obviously wrong we feel the "sin" was.  If you genuinely believe someone can "learn better" then you are, almost certainly, ready to forgive.  If however you believe that something is obviously wrong then there's nothing to learn.  You KNEW it was wrong.  You CHOSE to do it anyway.  Depending on what that thing was, and how many it hurts, you will be judged accordingly.  No opportunity to be forgiven is forthcoming.

Big picture this is correct. 

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There is no Right/Left break down on this.

Big picture this is not.  Part of the current divide is the belief that membership in the opposite part is proof of being a bad person - in other words guilty of the sin and choosing not to repent.  I mean honestly, there's no real evidence of racism on Trump's part, he's done a tremendous amount for the minorities in this country (stuff that if Obama had done it might have got him on Mt. Rushmore), yet he's "guilty" of being a racist.

Ok so I think I got the rules we are playing by

I don't think you have the rules correct.

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1. In a he said she said situation where no prof is available or possible
- Legally the decision goes to the accuser,
- Socially the decision goes to the accuser.

Traditionally, both of these went to the accused.  No proof = innocent (as in innocent until proven guilty).

Socially, lack of proof was read as "proof" of bad conduct on the accuser's part.  "she was asking for it" "a good girl wouldn't find herself in that position" or heck, "these women accusing my husband Bill Clinton, are all sluts and liars."

#MeToo's original goal was to change the social part, we'd already eliminated the introduction of such stigma's in the legal sphere (though that can't fix the lack of proof problem, it can remove treating misleading things as proof).

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1-a. Left:
Character and morality matter, anything you have ever said, did or took a picture of can and will be used against you. Character is the worst thing you ever did, said or took a picture of.   There is no room for forgiveness or learning better. Who you are is defined by a single moment in time.

I honestly don't believe the left has ever cared about character and morality.  They have only cared about the appearance of them.  They didn't care one whit if the Clinton's had character or morality - only whether it could be proven otherwise.  Caring about this is new to the left, which is exactly why they're having trouble feeling it out.  Without a history of principal they haven't confronted thorny issues.
 
EDITTED TO ADD:  This doesn't mean that individuals on the left are not concerned with morality and character or moral themselves, just that the political movement was not concerned with them and perfectly fine looking the other way.  For example, you can look back on this very site to Obama's first campaign and see where when he came out against gay marriage his supporters openly acknowledged he was lying because he "had to to win."

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- exception: personal flaws may be OK as long as they are part of your personal narrative of "overcoming" and known before you become known. Often the means of becoming known. We love those stories don't we. Just maybe we may be more then a past folly.

Repentence was an old trick, not left or right, rooted in our judeo-christian heritage and the power of god's forgiveness.  If god can forgive, then you too can show how you're a  better person by forgiving too.  Politician's cynically exploited that (as do televangilists).

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1-b Right:
Character is not morality and does not really matter, unless what you did is illegal and proven… however if the end goal is the right goal all can be forgiven.

The ends justify the means has never been part of the philosophy of the right.  I get the delusional idea that Trump is a departure from this, but he's not.  The people you think are being hypocritical have largely convinced themselves that he's repetant and not a scoundrel that is doing good deeds.  That's a big difference in the moral justification on their actions.

At best you can make the same argument I did above - that they don't care about his morals, like the left didn't care about the Clintons, but I think you'd find it much harder given almost all Trump's moral problems predate his Presidency. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 04:13:49 PM by Seriati »

rightleft22

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2019, 05:46:23 PM »
Sorry
1. In a he said she said situation where no prof is available or possible
- Legally the decision goes to the defendant
- Socially the decision goes to the accuser.

These are not my rules but a generalization of how I view the noise

rules 1-a and 1-b are what I interpret as the extreme right and left stance as boiling down to

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What do you mean took a picture of?
should have said if a picture of you exists that is questionable - its enough to condemn you - even better then tapes of you saying something stupid as pictures are more ambiguous so can be spun in thousand of ways. 
With so many young people posting pictures of everything they do today I feel bad for any future leaders. The "rules" are going to have to change
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 05:50:51 PM by rightleft22 »

Crunch

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2019, 07:33:42 PM »
The "rules" are going to have to change

And that’s why we got Trump.

TheDeamon

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2019, 09:24:13 PM »
The "rules" are going to have to change

And that’s why we got Trump.

Exactly.

rightleft22

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2019, 10:05:38 AM »
these "rules" don't exist only in the virtual world.  I have yet to come a cross someone face to face that would make such arguments, at least not is a black and white way.
So what the heck is happening? Why are we listing to the voices of the extreme?

TheDeamon

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2019, 10:43:02 AM »
these "rules" don't exist only in the virtual world.  I have yet to come a cross someone face to face that would make such arguments, at least not is a black and white way.
So what the heck is happening? Why are we listing to the voices of the extreme?

Because Donald Trump.

And the Democrats are completely terrified of the Activist Base(which tend to be extreme by default, otherwise they wouldn't be activists), they have made their political bed with. AOC unseating an incumbent Democrat is just one such example.

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2019, 11:56:46 AM »
What’s happening is *not* because of Trump. Trump is a result of what’s happening.

We are now at the point where we have serious candidates for the most powerful office in the world signing on to a plan where Americans are supposed to drink their own urine. That will get us Trump in 2020. Can you imagine the campaign ads he’s about to spin up?

TheDeamon

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2019, 12:18:50 PM »
What’s happening is *not* because of Trump. Trump is a result of what’s happening.

We are now at the point where we have serious candidates for the most powerful office in the world signing on to a plan where Americans are supposed to drink their own urine. That will get us Trump in 2020. Can you imagine the campaign ads he’s about to spin up?

A little bit from A, a little bit of B.

Trump happened because people had concerns about what has now happened becoming a practically unstoppable LEGAL force should Hillary have won election.

Because Tump happened, the Democrat Activist Base has absolutely lost its mind and is now going about demonstrating exactly why Trump voters were concerned, by going about doing what they can with Social/Political Force, rather than with the Legal Authority that a Hillary Clinton Presidency could have granted them.

Trump's win also made a number of extremist nutters of another flavor come out of the woodwork because he kind-of aligns with them on some narrowly defined items just further compounded and amplified the issue.

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2019, 01:29:53 PM »
Trump happened because people had concerns about what has now happened becoming a practically unstoppable LEGAL force should Hillary have won election.

Because Tump happened, the Democrat Activist Base has absolutely lost its mind and is now going about demonstrating exactly why Trump voters were concerned, by going about doing what they can with Social/Political Force, rather than with the Legal Authority that a Hillary Clinton Presidency could have granted them.

QFT.

Just watching the pre-election lectures about how conservatives have to accept the results of the election as a mandate and can have no basis to dispute that it was a just result, turn into absolute flipping out about the election and the election process should have let people know.

The idea here is simple.  Any progressive "reform" is a one-way street from which no movement can be allowed.  Any unwinding of any thing is a crime.  Literally, the classic death of a Democracy scenario where you get to vote once.

Quote
Trump's win also made a number of extremist nutters of another flavor come out of the woodwork because he kind-of aligns with them on some narrowly defined items just further compounded and amplified the issue.

I'm giving this one a "sorta."  I've still never met any of these nutters, or seen any evidence that they are more open, active or accepted.  What I have seen is the media putting  them on tv as much as possible, blowing them up to be "movements," all for the apparent purpose of justifying opposing them as morally "right" without any ability to disagree on the particulars.  I mean, we've seen that exact type of argument on hear - "you can't be right because random racist agrees with that position (even though it has nothing to do with race)."  That's pretty much a one way street, if racists agree with the "correct" position - no one cares - find a racist on the other side though and the whole side is nothing but racists and every position they have on everything is tainted.

I mean take a closer look at that Green New Deal - there's about a million things that are not connected to the green new deal in there.  Just kind of "hanging out" with the cool kids of the green policy world, as if they are a part of the deal.  There are really only there as part of a bizarre bit of virtue signalling.

TheDeamon

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2019, 07:34:25 PM »
Trump's win also made a number of extremist nutters of another flavor come out of the woodwork because he kind-of aligns with them on some narrowly defined items just further compounded and amplified the issue.

I'm giving this one a "sorta."  I've still never met any of these nutters, or seen any evidence that they are more open, active or accepted.  What I have seen is the media putting  them on tv as much as possible, blowing them up to be "movements," all for the apparent purpose of justifying opposing them as morally "right" without any ability to disagree on the particulars.  I mean, we've seen that exact type of argument on hear - "you can't be right because random racist agrees with that position (even though it has nothing to do with race)."  That's pretty much a one way street, if racists agree with the "correct" position - no one cares - find a racist on the other side though and the whole side is nothing but racists and every position they have on everything is tainted.

Well, they popped their heads out, not really much more so than they necessarily had in the past, although as you said, the media had them under a magnifying glass after Trump's win. Then the mayhem in Virginia happened and they've largely been deprived of venues since and haven't really forced the issue on their own just yet.

In some respects, as I think about, that's concerning in its own way. Better to let them blow off steam in a peaceful march, rather than completely deplatform them. Depriving them of any outlets until they explode and possibly take others with them in the process.

TheDrake

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2019, 05:54:31 PM »
I'm giving this one a "sorta."  I've still never met any of these nutters, or seen any evidence that they are more open, active or accepted.  What I have seen is the media putting  them on tv as much as possible, blowing them up to be "movements," all for the apparent purpose of justifying opposing them as morally "right" without any ability to disagree on the particulars.  I mean, we've seen that exact type of argument on hear - "you can't be right because random racist agrees with that position (even though it has nothing to do with race)."  That's pretty much a one way street, if racists agree with the "correct" position - no one cares - find a racist on the other side though and the whole side is nothing but racists and every position they have on everything is tainted.

I've seen people emboldened in Texas. Much more likely to feel comfortable railing about the goldamn bean shiftters, wetbacks, or other racial disparagement.

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2019, 08:03:13 AM »
I've seen people emboldened in Texas. Much more likely to feel comfortable railing about the goldamn bean shiftters, wetbacks, or other racial disparagement.

Yeah, sure you have. You and Jussie Smollett.  ::)

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2019, 08:05:13 AM »
So Northam is still in power. From Robert Byrd to Ralph Northam, it’s clear that the Democrat Party is the place to be if you’re a racist.

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2019, 08:00:58 AM »
Quote
Mary Ann Lisanti, a white Maryland Democrat legislator, is apologizing to black lawmakers for referring to a county as “n***r district,” but claims “everyone” has used the racial slur.

Delegate Lisanti reportedly used the racist slur to describe Prince George’s County — which is 62 percent African American — while conversing with a colleague during an after-hours gather at a bar in Annapolis.

According to the Washington Post, Legislative Black Caucus of Maryland confronted the Democrat legislator, whose district includes Harford County, over the alleged slur.

No wonder the Democrats think racism is a problem, that’s where all the racists are. You go to a DNC convention, it’s probably racial slurs and a sea of blackface.

TheDeamon

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2019, 12:54:09 PM »
Democrats turned projection into an art form years ago.

TheDrake

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2019, 07:49:07 AM »
And the other Northam?

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"During the tour of the Mansion Cottage, (Walker's daughter) and two of her (fellow) pages were asked to hold cotton that the First Lady retrieved from a bowl on a nearby table," Walker wrote in the letter. "Mrs. Northam then asked these three pages (the only African-American pages in the program) if they could imagine what it must have been like to pick cotton all day."

Holy hell. It would have been somewhat uncomfortable if she had done that with the entire group, but singling out these three? Sigh.

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2019, 08:21:44 AM »
I read that, thought it had to be a parody thing. I’m starting to have a tough time telling the parody from the reality with more than a few liberals. A lot of you guys have lost it.

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #87 on: April 20, 2019, 10:34:24 AM »
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Gov. Ralph Northam has called for the removal of the Jefferson Davis Memorial arch at Fort Monroe, saying its continued presence has an “adverse effect” on the historic property and urged the authority’s board of trustees to initiate steps to take it down.

I suppose he’ll have it replaced with a large cross ... ooh, with a flame effect! That’d be really cool.

TheDrake

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #88 on: April 20, 2019, 11:13:27 AM »
Jefferson Davis was a traitor.

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #89 on: April 20, 2019, 12:33:21 PM »
And ...

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Jefferson Finis Davis (June 3, 1808 – December 6, 1889) was an American politician who served as the only President of the Confederate States from 1861 to 1865. As a member of the Democratic Party, he represented Mississippi in the United States Senate and the House of Representatives prior to switching allegiance to the Confederacy.

TheDeamon

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Re: Ralph Northam
« Reply #90 on: April 20, 2019, 12:48:16 PM »
Even more reason for the Democrats to want to expunge him from History.