Author Topic: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:  (Read 123801 times)

Lloyd Perna

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1750 on: October 09, 2020, 10:02:38 AM »
So why didn't Trump mention his bone spurs when he was walking down that ramp so slowly?  In fact, why don't we hear about his bone spurs in his medical reports?

AFAIK, bone spurs don't go away.  You have them for life.  Did he misplace his?  :D



I have never heard Biden talk about his Asthma Either.  What's your point?

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1751 on: October 09, 2020, 10:26:44 AM »
Y-22,

“We all understand that a cloth mask doesn't filter out things virus size. However people wearing masks don't spread their droplets and aerosols as widely and they will spread less of them.”

You also understand that the right mask will provide you, and others, with full protection, and are perfectly willing to take half-measures in protecting people from your bio-contaminants.

The initial CDC strategy was keeping hospital beds available. I believe that you, Donald, and now WS have been asked at least once, but I will do it again; If this is a life or death matter for you, then why aren’t you doing your part to keep hospital beds available for the vulnerable by wearing appropriate protective gear? You don’t even have to self-isolate for a month as WS suggests. Your actions seem to indicate a risk calculus much higher than the droning rhetoric supports.

Trump also made a risk assessment, and unfortunately hit the lottery. He missed four days at the Whitehouse, and zero days work, as a consequence. Which approach looks hypocritical here?

« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 10:28:57 AM by noel c. »

yossarian22c

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1752 on: October 09, 2020, 10:44:01 AM »
Y-22,

“We all understand that a cloth mask doesn't filter out things virus size. However people wearing masks don't spread their droplets and aerosols as widely and they will spread less of them.”

You also understand that the right mask will provide you, and others, with full protection, and are perfectly willing to take half-measures in protecting people from your bio-contaminants.

We don't make enough n95/n100 masks for everyone to wear on a daily basis.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks
Quote
N95 Respirators Not for Use by the General Public

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) does not recommend that the general public wear N95 respirators to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including coronavirus (COVID-19). Those are critical supplies that must continue to be reserved for health care workers and other medical first responders, as recommended by current CDC guidance.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1753 on: October 09, 2020, 10:58:53 AM »
The perfect is the enemy of the good.

It is straightforward; wearing cloth masks significantly reduces the chance of transmission.  On a societal level, using masks and other hygiene methods to slow down the spread such that the R0 value is reduced to less than 1.0 will result in fewer people dying prior to there being an effective vaccine, but a vastly reduced level of infection will also allow social and economic activities to be resumed more confidently and more quickly.

wmLambert

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1754 on: October 09, 2020, 11:02:43 AM »
No one thinks masks are the solution. When wearing any mask and walking through a cloud of droplets, those droplets become affixed to the mask and go wherever the mask wearer goes, and is spread from the mask. But at the same time, the shirts, pants, hat and gloves that are also contaminated go with the wearer, too.

msquared

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1755 on: October 09, 2020, 11:08:25 AM »
With a mask there is almost no cloud of droplets. Again, this is about protecting others from what we exhale, not about protecting yourself from what you inhale.

They are not the sole solution; they are part of the solution, along with distancing and reducing contact and keeping crowds small.  It is a multi faceted approach.  Not just one thing, but several, which together can do a lot of good.

rightleft22

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1756 on: October 09, 2020, 11:12:45 AM »
No one thinks masks are the solution. When wearing any mask and walking through a cloud of droplets, those droplets become affixed to the mask and go wherever the mask wearer goes, and is spread from the mask. But at the same time, the shirts, pants, hat and gloves that are also contaminated go with the wearer, too.

You are coming from a point of view of masks protecting you. Masks protect others from your droplets. If every everyone has a mask on everyone is better protected. Those who refuse are the ones placing others at risk for the reasons you give.

Mask are not the solution as you point out, but a part of the solution. Staying home if your don't feel well, washing your hands often, social distancing, and wearing a mask are all part of the preventive measures we can all take to protect others. And protecting other ourselves.


« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 11:15:13 AM by rightleft22 »

wmLambert

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1757 on: October 09, 2020, 11:14:37 AM »
Let me put it this way. According to OSHA guidelines, when working in haz-mat conditions, all construction workers must pass a fit-test with accredited inspectors to ensure proper fit. IOW - even the best of masks aren't foolproof, are they? Half the people I see wear masks over the mouth and leave the nose free. Pelosi and most of her people did that early on. The MSM let them know they weren't doing it right, but then she went to a hair-stylist without a mask at all. The whole thing is a guesstimate of effectiveness.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1758 on: October 09, 2020, 11:17:37 AM »
"No one thinks masks are the solution."

This is a ridiculous statement to make, especially on a topic where the majority of your interlocutors are explaining to you why masks are the largest part of the solution.  Maybe they are all wrong - but that still wouldn't make your statement correct.

wmLambert

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1759 on: October 09, 2020, 11:18:18 AM »
...Mask are not the solution as you point out, but a part of the solution. Staying home if your don't feel well, washing your hands often, social distancing, and wearing a mask are all part of the preventive measures we can all take to protect others. And protecting other ourselves.

Totally agree, but with the caveat that it can only be voluntary. Forcing this on people might get you kidnapped.

msquared

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1760 on: October 09, 2020, 11:22:19 AM »
So it is OK not to wear one because someone else is not doing it correctly?   I bet if the President told his supporters that proper mask wearing would help the economy and keep it from being shut down, you would have better conformance.  Many of them are not diligent about it because they have seen the President not wear a mask and say it is not that big of a deal.

Again, this is a failure of leadership on Trump's part. 

I have said it before. I do not hold Trump responsible for the virus or it getting into America. With our open society and borders, it was going to happen.

I do hold him responsible for his lack of response and downplaying of the virus once it got a foothold.

Agree forcing at this point is not going to work, that is why you need leadership. And we do not have it. And 212,000 dead Americans in 8 months is the result.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1761 on: October 09, 2020, 11:23:44 AM »
Y-22,

“We don't make enough n95/n100 masks for everyone to wear on a daily basis.”

Your link does not support your lack of supply assertion, and my vendor would disagree with you on public availability.

The “daily basis” criteria is likewise a misapprehension, bordering on an irresponsible excuse to behave in a socially reprehensible manner (by your claimed standard). I can tell by your concept of reusability that you have never worn either of these respirators. Am I correct?

Donald,

“The perfect is the enemy of the good.

It is straightforward; wearing cloth masks significantly reduces the chance of transmission.  On a societal level, using masks and other hygiene methods to slow down the spread such that the R0 value is reduced to less than 1.0 will result in fewer people dying prior to there being an effective vaccine, but a vastly reduced level of infection will also allow social and economic activities to be resumed more confidently and more quickly.“


The convenient is the enemy of the optimal.

It is straightforward; you are a willing disease vector, operating under the herd immunity model, who is needlessly putting yourself and others at risk (per your standard). As long as the RO value, which is elusively difficult to calculate, is above 1.0, you need to wear appropriate protective equipment. Are you, and why not?

WmL,

“Let me put it this way. According to OSHA guidelines, when working in haz-mat conditions, all construction workers must pass a fit-test with accredited inspectors to ensure proper fit. IOW - even the best of masks aren't foolproof, are they? Half the people I see wear masks over the mouth and leave the nose free. Pelosi and most of her people did that early on. The MSM let them know they weren't doing it right, but then she went to a hair-stylist without a mask at all. The whole thing is a guesstimate of effectiveness.“

I fully understand, and agree with, your assessment of Pelosi’s hypocrisy, and yes; she is a blithering idiot on top of it. Donald D, however, considers himself to be smarter than Pelosi, and I believe him. It is, after all, a pretty low bar. His actions, or lack thereof, can only be hypocritical.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 11:26:22 AM by noel c. »

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1762 on: October 09, 2020, 11:29:00 AM »
I think it is telling that the president of the United States of America has publicly called for his Attorney General to arrest his political opponent - and it doesn't even rate a mention here.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1763 on: October 09, 2020, 11:37:00 AM »
Donald,

“I think it is telling that the president of the United States of America has publicly called for his Attorney General to arrest his political opponent - and it doesn't even rate a mention here.”

I think it is telling that you are willfully putting the lives of Americans at risk, and try to change the subject.

yossarian22c

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1764 on: October 09, 2020, 12:05:46 PM »
Y-22,

“We don't make enough n95/n100 masks for everyone to wear on a daily basis.”

Your link does not support your lack of supply assertion, and my vendor would disagree with you on public availability.

Quote
Those are critical supplies that must continue to be reserved for health care workers and other medical first responders, as recommended by current CDC guidance.

Could you tell me what reserved for would mean if supply were at a level that the general public could all use them regularly.

I never claimed there were no n95s. So please stop conflating shortage with there being no masks. But there aren't enough for everyone to use regularly. I don't care if your vendor has a pallet full of n95s sitting in a warehouse. Unless they have 330 million to send one out to everyone in America then just stop with the "if you really cared you would buy up n95s" as the CDC is asking people not buy them. The reason they give is so there will be enough for health care workers and other workers who need them for their jobs on a regular basis.

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1765 on: October 09, 2020, 12:08:38 PM »
Quote
Your link does not support your lack of supply assertion, and my vendor would disagree with you on public availability.

This is great news, I'm going to need an n95 mask when I go vote. Got a link?

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1766 on: October 09, 2020, 12:24:53 PM »
Donald,

“I think it is telling that the president of the United States of America has publicly called for his Attorney General to arrest his political opponent - and it doesn't even rate a mention here.”

I think it is telling that you are willfully putting the lives of Americans at risk, and try to change the subject.
If you believe this, then you are an idiot.

Of course, you do not actually believe this, do you?

msquared

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1767 on: October 09, 2020, 12:30:32 PM »
We put other people at risk every day when we leave our house in our cars.  It is not a matter of eliminating risk but reducing it.  My wife and I have not eaten in a restaurant since mid March, but we still take out dinner from local places twice a week. And I tip generously to try and help keep them in business.  I follow all the rules they have in place.  I have reduced the risk. Have I eliminated it? No, but as has been said before, it is not about elimination, but reduction.

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1768 on: October 09, 2020, 12:35:31 PM »
Quote
Your link does not support your lack of supply assertion, and my vendor would disagree with you on public availability.

This is great news, I'm going to need an n95 mask when I go vote. Got a link?

BTW, here's home depot. Unavailable, unavailable, unavailable. It's not the only site I scoured a couple of weeks ago.

Unavailable

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1769 on: October 09, 2020, 12:43:14 PM »
Quote
Your link does not support your lack of supply assertion, and my vendor would disagree with you on public availability.

This is great news, I'm going to need an n95 mask when I go vote. Got a link?

BTW, here's home depot. Unavailable, unavailable, unavailable. It's not the only site I scoured a couple of weeks ago.

Unavailable

FYI, watch out for counterfeits, they are all over the place, so while you might see an ad for something like covcare and others, they aren't real and you might as well have the cloth mask.

CDC tells the tale

You'll be scrolling for quite some time, and when they get identified, they just rebrand. Sometimes they just stamp the brand of a reputable supplier on it.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1770 on: October 09, 2020, 12:48:00 PM »
Msquared,

“So it is OK not to wear one because someone else is not doing it correctly? I bet if the President told his supporters that proper mask wearing would help the economy and keep it from being shut down, you would have better conformance.  Many of them are not diligent about it because they have seen the President not wear a mask and say it is not that big of a deal.”

Or, in the alternative; Many Trump supporters have, like him, made a thoughtful risk/benefit assessment regarding proper, and improper times and situations, to wear a mask.

For my work purposes, a surgical mask is a hazard far exceeding any possible benefit. Worn properly, they fog safety glasses, setting me up to be murdered by a 30 hp CNC horizontal lathe, or vertical mill. An N-100 oil-resistant mask, with exhaust valve works fine, but I will not use it in public because of the vented exhaust. The public gets a surgical mask if I am in close quarters, otherwise I will not wear one at all. When working with my handicapped daughter, the non-vented N-95 is excellent.

Cloth bandannas not only make you look like an idiot, you are an idiot if the objective is to protect yourself, or others.

Use your head people.

Drake,

“This is great news, I'm going to need an n95 mask when I go vote. Got a link?

This is not my supplier, but this company will give you a four to five day turn around.

https://www.cov.care/?locale=en

“BTW, here's home depot. Unavailable, unavailable, unavailable. It's not the only site I scoured a couple of weeks ago.”

Liberals are helpless.

Y-22,

“Could you tell me what reserved for would mean if supply were at a level that the general public could all use them regularly.“

That would mean you have made no effort to obtain any, and I am not at all surprised.

“I never claimed there were no n95s. So please stop conflating shortage with there being no masks. But there aren't enough for everyone to use regularly.”

Looking for an excuse, are we? How long do you think that you can use a vented N-100?

“I don't care if your vendor has a pallet full of n95s sitting in a warehouse. Unless they have 330 million to send one out to everyone in America then just stop with the "if you really cared you would buy up n95s" as the CDC is asking people not buy them.”

So, going back to msquared’s question; because other people are not using them, you are justified in not using them? You are finally beginning to sound like Trump.

“The reason they give is so there will be enough for health care workers and other workers who need them for their jobs on a regular basis.“

You are hiding behind an old CDC bulletin in order to justify hypocrisy. They are publicly available, walk the talk.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 12:52:17 PM by noel c. »

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1771 on: October 09, 2020, 12:57:42 PM »
I specifically mentioned that covcare is a scam. Take a good hard look.

Riddled with complaints

Here's just one of them:

Quote
On August 8 I ordered (Order #*****) 100 CE Certified, Disposable 3-Ply Surgical Civil Face Mask (Level 1). On August 28 I received 100 facemask in two boxes that were labeled for dust only. Of course the box doesn’t look like the picture of the box that I ordered. So far customer service has not been able to understand this. I will keep trying. I wish I had read the reviews before I ordered from this company

oldbrian

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1772 on: October 09, 2020, 01:02:22 PM »
Quote
You are hiding behind an old CDC bulletin in order to justify hypocrisy. They are publicly available, walk the talk.

I have two relatives and a former neighbor who have moved down south in the last several years, all working in hospitals down there.  S. Carolina, Georgia, Texas.

All of them say that the hospitals are having trouble getting enough non-vented N95 masks for everyone.   So it is not just the CDC from a few months ago saying that there is a shortage.

Also, I wear a cloth mask all day long and my safety glasses do not fog over.  You just need to take a few minutes to ensure everything is in the proper place.

rightleft22

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1773 on: October 09, 2020, 01:06:37 PM »
...Mask are not the solution as you point out, but a part of the solution. Staying home if your don't feel well, washing your hands often, social distancing, and wearing a mask are all part of the preventive measures we can all take to protect others. And protecting other ourselves.

Totally agree, but with the caveat that it can only be voluntary. Forcing this on people might get you kidnapped.

With the caveat that as you noted in your other post that those that don't were the mask create a greater risk for those that do. 
Not wearing a mask were others are is making a statement.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1774 on: October 09, 2020, 01:07:37 PM »
I think it is telling that the president of the United States of America has publicly called for his Attorney General to arrest his political opponent - and it doesn't even rate a mention here.

And still... radio silence.  This is 1970s banana republic-level tactics.  Or Russia, any time since, oh, the revolution. Turkey/Erdogan.

That the USA is joining such an auspicious group should really raise at least an eyebrow, yet because of the level of the current sh!tshow, it's just become background noise. Sad.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1775 on: October 09, 2020, 01:17:20 PM »
Drake,

“On August 8 I ordered (Order #*****) 100 CE Certified, Disposable 3-Ply Surgical Civil Face Mask (Level 1). On August 28 I received 100 facemask in two boxes that were labeled for dust only. Of course the box doesn’t look like the picture of the box that I ordered. So far customer service has not been able to understand this. I will keep trying. I wish I had read the reviews before I ordered from this company“

Idiots! Surgical masks are lower in efficiency than “for dust only” masks.

“I specifically mentioned that covcare is a scam. Take a good hard look.
Riddled with complaints
Here's just one of them:“


Like I said, liberals are helpless. All of those complaints were resolved through the BBB. The issue was supply chain delays. 3M N-95s are now “on the shelf”.

Are you reserving any other excuses to be socially irresponsible?

Oldbrian,

”All of them say that the hospitals are having trouble getting enough non-vented N95 masks for everyone.   So it is not just the CDC from a few months ago saying that there is a shortage.”

Those masks are supposed to be good for a full shift. Are your hospital friends using them that way? It is all really beside the point if someone is serious about protecting themselves, and others. Full boxes typically come with cleaning solution.

“Also, I wear a cloth mask all day long and my safety glasses do not fog over.  You just need to take a few minutes to ensure everything is in the proper place.”

I do not use cloth for the reason already given. There are effective alternatives.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 01:25:58 PM by noel c. »

yossarian22c

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1776 on: October 09, 2020, 01:31:18 PM »
Y-22,

“Could you tell me what reserved for would mean if supply were at a level that the general public could all use them regularly.“

That would mean you have made no effort to obtain any, and I am not at all surprised.

The general public could all use them regularly. Not me individually.

Quit making this about me or any individual on this board. I'm glad you have access to n95's because you need them for your work. I don't need them for work. Even if I could by a few I shouldn't because the CDC and FDA are asking people not to because they are still in short supply. And clearly there is not enough supply for the whole nation.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html
Quote
Do NOT wear masks intended for healthcare workers, for example, N95 respirators

If n95s were widely available (like if Trump had used the DPA to produce them in February/March) I would use them when going to indoor settings. I don't wear them in situations in which a cloth mask merely reduces my risk and risk to others instead of eliminating it. Because the government is asking us not to wear n95s in those situations because they are still having trouble fully supplying health care workers.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1777 on: October 09, 2020, 01:34:08 PM »
So, how about you Donald. Are you going to clue me in on what you are personally doing to save the world from SARS-CoV-2?

Y-22,

“Quit making this about me or any individual on this board.”

This thread is precisely about individual hypocrisy. For that matter, hypocrisy only comes in that variety. Stop trying to make it about someone that you have no control over.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 01:41:17 PM by noel c. »

yossarian22c

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1778 on: October 09, 2020, 01:46:40 PM »
Y-22,

“Quit making this about me or any individual on this board.”

This thread is precisely about individual hypocrisy. Stop trying to make it about someone that you have no control over.

What hypocrisy? I'm following the guidance of the FDA and CDC for use of an item with limited supply. If the supply weren't limited I could go buy these at Lowe's or Home Depot like I could a year ago. So quit posting links to sites that have high rates of fraudulent activity.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1779 on: October 09, 2020, 01:56:30 PM »
Y-22,

“What hypocrisy? I'm following the guidance of the FDA and CDC for use of an item with limited supply.“

Your hypocrisy. These masks are publicly available. You are knowingly, and willfully, endangering yourself, and others. Blaming Trump for the neglect, of your own purported values, is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

“If the supply weren't limited I could go buy these at Lowe's or Home Depot like I could a year ago. So quit posting links to sites that have high rates of fraudulent activity.”

Now you are adding libel to hypocrisy. What “fraudulent activity” are you claiming?

yossarian22c

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1780 on: October 09, 2020, 02:18:54 PM »
Y-22,

“What hypocrisy? I'm following the guidance of the FDA and CDC for use of an item with limited supply.“

Your hypocrisy. These masks are publicly available. You are knowingly, and willfully, endangering yourself, and others. Blaming Trump for the neglect, of your own purported values, is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

My hypocrisy in following the advice of public health officials?

By buying and using n95s for myself I would be knowingly and willingly taking one from a public health care worker or from the firemen who just carried my neighbor out on a stretcher.

Either show me there is enough supply for everyone or shut up about it. Because I don't have any high risk outings that would justify my usage of n95s.

yossarian22c

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1781 on: October 09, 2020, 02:28:49 PM »
“If the supply weren't limited I could go buy these at Lowe's or Home Depot like I could a year ago. So quit posting links to sites that have high rates of fraudulent activity.”

Now you are adding libel to hypocrisy. What “fraudulent activity” are you claiming?

Fraud is when someone sells you something and sends you something else.

Your industrial safety products website from before with an F BBB rating because people weren't getting what they ordered.

covcare is a C BBB rating with lots of similar complaints.

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1782 on: October 09, 2020, 02:53:05 PM »
Y-22,

“What hypocrisy? I'm following the guidance of the FDA and CDC for use of an item with limited supply.“

Your hypocrisy. These masks are publicly available. You are knowingly, and willfully, endangering yourself, and others. Blaming Trump for the neglect, of your own purported values, is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

“If the supply weren't limited I could go buy these at Lowe's or Home Depot like I could a year ago. So quit posting links to sites that have high rates of fraudulent activity.”

Now you are adding libel to hypocrisy. What “fraudulent activity” are you claiming?

I'm sorry you are probably getting ripped off by your supplier. Go to any actual reputable company, and you'll find out of stock, over and over again.

again

Or is it your contention that there are plenty of these masks, but all the reputable retailers are either inept at procurement or deliberately faking an outage to damage Trump?

msquared

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1783 on: October 09, 2020, 02:56:23 PM »
George Soros bought them all and is stockpiling them to make Trump look bad.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1784 on: October 09, 2020, 04:02:27 PM »
Y-22,

“My hypocrisy in following the advice of public health officials?”

No, your hypocrisy is willfully endangering others while claiming the moral high ground.

“By buying and using n95s for myself I would be knowingly and willingly taking one from a public health care worker or from the firemen who just carried my neighbor out on a stretcher.”

Nice dramatic flair, but as I have repeated twice now, liberals are helpless.

If your obedience to government requests, even if dated, is your first priority, a wide selection of alternatives to the N-95 mask remain. For your personal information, the 95 series is the lowest rated mask. The 99, and 100 series are better in terms of simple particulate filtration, and if you get a P classification (active carbon/oil filtering) the effectiveness is even higher for SARS-CoV-2 (it has a lipid, “fat”, outer capsul). An additional benefit to the P-100 is that it lasts for up to thirty days of continuous use., and if you are so inclined... can spend a day in the wing of a passenger airliner without a scent of JP-4 passing through.

Do you need more help being a responsible citizen?

“Either show me there is enough supply for everyone or shut up about it. Because I don't have any high risk outings that would justify my usage of n95s.“

Finally, the truth; everyone else is the problem, not you? WS, Drake, Donald, and you want to be taken seriously on what Trump, and “Republicans” should be doing to remain morally compliant. All of you people are flaming hypocrites.

Are any of you phony public health champions willing to bet against my ability to link you to a mask delivered to your door for $13?

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1785 on: October 09, 2020, 09:56:56 PM »
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And Iran knows that, and they've been put on notice.  If you f*** around with us, if you do something bad to us, we are going to do things to you that have never been done before.

Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States.

I'm pretty sure he already has that 30% of the electorate locked up.  Maybe he thinks this will get them out to vote, but it is just going to alienate everybody else (and yes, I'm looking at the 20% gap Trump has with women here.)

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1786 on: October 09, 2020, 10:22:10 PM »
And have you verified that they are not a white supremist organization?  Have you verified that none of their members are white supremacists?  Have you verified that they don't spout white supremacists rhetoric?  Wouldn't it be odd if there are a number of white supremacists who are members and friends of the Proud Boys when the Proud Boys speak out so forcefully against white supremacists??  Do you think the Proud Boys stand with other anti-white supremacist organizations like the NAACP?

These days, I trust the SPLC less than the Onion of the BabylonBee.

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1787 on: October 09, 2020, 10:25:58 PM »
Any doctor who "cleared as safe" travelling in an enclosed vehicle with a patient suffering from COVID-19 and only 3 days into their symptoms should have to turn in their license, and the Cracker Jack box from whence it came.

Was it the same doctor who admitted to lying to the press about Trump's treatment and status, I wonder..?

Given reporting on how safe travel on airplanes are supposed to be if they're equipped with "hospital grade HEPA filtration systems" I'd go out on a limb and suspect that the Presidential Limo at least matches that. So unless you're also going to say air travel is also unsafe if an aysmptomatic covid19 person is onboard....

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1788 on: October 09, 2020, 10:35:25 PM »
Trump tweets: COVID-19 less lethal than flu for most populations!!

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Flu season is coming up! Many people every year, sometimes over 100,000, and despite the Vaccine, die from the Flu. Are we going to close down our Country? No, we have learned to live with it, just like we are learning to live with Covid, in most populations far less lethal!!!

Somebody has got to wrest his phone away from him until he's no longer hopped up on drugs.  The alternatives are 1) he actually believes the completely counter-factual things he is saying and is not high on steroids, or b) he is simply lying.

You can make statistics say anything you want, and by one construct, it IS less lethal than the flu... Once sick with it, although it can more long lasting side effects.

The thing is that Covid19 can make more people sick than a typical flu strain, which means the aggregate numbers for Covid19 are capable of being much higher(and has been).

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1789 on: October 09, 2020, 10:57:42 PM »
You can make statistics say anything you want, and by one construct, it IS less lethal than the flu... Once sick with it, although it can more long lasting side effects.

The thing is that Covid19 can make more people sick than a typical flu strain, which means the aggregate numbers for Covid19 are capable of being much higher(and has been).
No, you cannot make statistics say anything you want - and by which construct would that be?  COVID-19 is more infectious than influenza, and for age groups above 10 years old, it is more deadly, i.e., the case mortality rate, the rate of death for those infected, is higher. More people die of COVID-19 in absolute numbers, and more people who are infected with the coronavirus end up dying as compared to those infected with influenza.

noel c.

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1790 on: October 09, 2020, 11:57:29 PM »
Donald,

“More people die of COVID-19 in absolute numbers, and more people who are infected with the coronavirus end up dying as compared to those infected with influenza.”

As a comparative generalization of the two virus types, this is currently true. However, given a more rapid mutation rate of the influenza virus, it has not always been true, nor is it likely to be true in the future. The H5N1 influenza virus is literally an “order of magnitude” (10X) more deadly than SARS-CoV-2, and only a few mutations away from being more communicable between humans.

This makes it an excellent candidate for bioterriorist modification.

Right now, COVID-19 is more “contagious.” This is primarily due to a lack of protective immunity worldwide in human populations, either through herd immunity, or vaccination. Therefore, the relative contagiousness of COVID-19 may change over time as aggregate population immunity changes.

What type of mask are you using to protect the population Donald?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 12:00:30 AM by noel c. »

DJQuag

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1791 on: October 10, 2020, 02:57:27 PM »
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Unless Bill Barr indicts these people for crimes, the greatest political crime in the history of our country, then we're going to get little satisfaction unless I win and we'll just have to go, because I won't forget it.

...

But, it's still not that easy, you have a 'deep state,' you have a group of people that don't want to have documents shown, which tells you bad thing, you know, but they -- they have to give them ultimately and we're getting them, you know.

So, Trump is, what, commanding his AG to prosecute people for their involvement in the FBI counterintelligence operation against Russian interference in the 2016 election? And, what, Barr, his own appointee, is also a member of the "deep state" apparatus?

This man is deeply troubled.  Where is his family?

https://www.theonion.com/tag/trump-boys

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1792 on: October 11, 2020, 09:46:31 PM »
Trump and his team, once again showing just how much he values consent:

Dr Fauci: “In my nearly five decades of public service, I have never publicly endorsed, nor do I now endorse, any political candidates. The comments attributed to me without my permission in the GOP campaign ad were taken out of context from a broad statement I made months ago about the efforts of federal public health officials.”

Trump campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh: “These are Dr. Fauci’s own words,. The video is from a nationally broadcast television interview in which Dr. Fauci was praising the work of the Trump Administration. The words spoken are accurate, and directly from Dr. Fauci’s mouth.”

TheDrake

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1793 on: October 12, 2020, 02:36:05 PM »
Trump and his team, once again showing just how much he values consent:

Dr Fauci: “In my nearly five decades of public service, I have never publicly endorsed, nor do I now endorse, any political candidates. The comments attributed to me without my permission in the GOP campaign ad were taken out of context from a broad statement I made months ago about the efforts of federal public health officials.”

Trump campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh: “These are Dr. Fauci’s own words,. The video is from a nationally broadcast television interview in which Dr. Fauci was praising the work of the Trump Administration. The words spoken are accurate, and directly from Dr. Fauci’s mouth.”
 

Yup. What else is new? I'm sure the Trump apologists won't mind a bit. They watch all of Trump's fraudulent representations and lap it up.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1794 on: October 12, 2020, 05:07:58 PM »
Eric Trump, proving once again he's not the smart one... while being interviewed by ABC's Jonathan Karl, ABC News Chief White House Correspondent:

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KARL: Let me ask you on your father's condition, when he spoke to Rush Limbaugh he suggested there was a moment where -- and time where he thought he might not make it. How bad did it get?

E. TRUMP: Yes. Listen, that first day he got hit hard, first day Friday. And I can tell you as son, it's never fun watching your father fly off to Walter Reed on Marine One, right? I mean, that’s something that -- it's a day that no son wants to, again, remember. It's -- that’s no fun to watch.

But I'm telling you I spoke to him three times that next Saturday. The guy sounded 100%. It was amazing. It actually probably goes to speak to how good some of these vaccines that are being created are and what my father’s done on the vaccine front, no one could have done. No one could have done.

I mean, literally, Biden was calling my father xenophobic for shutting down America from travel to China -- I mean, and the virus came from China. My father, literally, started day one creating this vaccine. He worked to push this vaccine. And now my father just took it. And you see how well he got over it --

Wayward Son

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1795 on: October 12, 2020, 05:47:50 PM »
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our “scientific” solution is fantasy informed by ex post facto pontification. The option left to the United States is herd immunity in conjunction with a vaccine that must be at least 75% effective according to a 237-page report from the National Academy of Medicine, published October 2. Alternatively, we could go through the same process of viral mutation that rendered the 1918 H1N1 influenza A virus into our present seasonal flu.

I've heard that we need to have about 80% of people infected before heard immunity kicks in.

Either way, you're talking about 1.5 to 2 million Americans DEAD from those infected.  That is your preferred plan?  ::)

How much hardship will that cause?  How much depression?  How much stress?  How many families will lose their breadwinners forever?

You guys keep waving the specter of deaths from economic hardship around, but you never quantify it.  You never consider the deaths from emotional hardship, and the economic hardship that comes with people dying.

It's hard to know which way would result in fewer deaths.  But one way we do know how to count the corpses. :(

Wayward Son

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1796 on: October 12, 2020, 06:01:57 PM »
So why didn't Trump mention his bone spurs when he was walking down that ramp so slowly?  In fact, why don't we hear about his bone spurs in his medical reports?

AFAIK, bone spurs don't go away.  You have them for life.  Did he misplace his?  :D

I have never heard Biden talk about his Asthma Either.  What's your point?

The point is that Biden's doctor's report mentions that he had asthma.

Trump's doctor's reports never mentions any bone spurs.  Like he never had them.  And he never mentions it when he's trying to explain why he walking slowly down a ramp, for instance. ;)

Trump is a liar.  He lied to get out of Viet Nam.  He didn't want to fight, and his father got a doctor to lie to get him out.  How can someone say there is no possibility at all, absolutely none, that Trump may have the slightest bit of contempt for those who couldn't get out of serving when he went to so much trouble to get out?  What would you call people who weren't smart enough or worldly enough to get out of risking their lives when they didn't have to?  Something like...losers and suckers? :) ;)

TheDeamon

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1797 on: October 12, 2020, 07:28:17 PM »
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our “scientific” solution is fantasy informed by ex post facto pontification. The option left to the United States is herd immunity in conjunction with a vaccine that must be at least 75% effective according to a 237-page report from the National Academy of Medicine, published October 2. Alternatively, we could go through the same process of viral mutation that rendered the 1918 H1N1 influenza A virus into our present seasonal flu.

I've heard that we need to have about 80% of people infected before heard immunity kicks in.

Either way, you're talking about 1.5 to 2 million Americans DEAD from those infected.  That is your preferred plan?  ::)

I'm highly dubious of the 1.5 million dead claim on the "let it run" scenario at this stage. Too many instances of "community spread" where the person who spread it was never able to be identified, which says there are a legion of Covid19 cases out there which were never "confirmed cases" to work against that 2% mortality rate number, although that number is still slowly ticking downward as the current testing regime slowly whittles away on the initial 110 thousand deaths which happened in the first 2 million confirmed cases, as opposed to the 110 thousand deaths that have happened during the subsequent 5.7 million confirmed cases(yes, I know that still works out to just under 2%), but we're still having plenty of instances of the asymptomatic spreader going on, so the cohort of the Covid19 infected seems to be far larger than what the testing is finding even now.

In any case, we're probably going to have vaccines rolling out in the next few months which should make it highly unlikely that we see the death toll get anywhere near the half-million mark... And even getting to 300K is probably becoming questionable at this stage depending on vaccine trial outcomes.

If all of the trials fail, we're probably going to have to move into a "suck it up" mode anyway, we're simply not going to be able to lock things down sufficiently to properly eradicate Covid19 from our general population at this stage and the economic toll(with result impacts on mental health) is already getting to be plenty bad in its own right.

Older Generations had to contend with losing loved ones to pnemonia, typhus, measels, mumps, rubella, typhoid, smallpox, and polio... And even the spanish flu 100 years ago. It isn't ideal, but it is something that the people who live through it will find ways to cope with. Life goes on. Hopefully the vaccines work "well enough" and we can prevent a lot of that, but after a certain point you have to allow the situation to be triaged properly and in this case that means you need to allow the economists to have input too, not just the doctors.

DonaldD

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1798 on: October 12, 2020, 09:24:56 PM »
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I'm not gonna say the best, but I'm just about the best thing that ever happened to Puerto Rico. You better vote for me, Puerto Rico

How can a man so profoundly ignorant of his own country ave become the leader it? He's just. so. stupid.

I wonder how much ad money they are spending to get out the Trump vote in Puerto Rico...

Lloyd Perna

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Re: A Message from the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump:
« Reply #1799 on: October 13, 2020, 05:24:44 AM »
What would you call people who weren't smart enough or worldly enough to get out of risking their lives when they didn't have to?  Something like...losers and suckers? :) ;)

Heros