Author Topic: Pencemegeddon  (Read 3240 times)

TheDeamon

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #350 on: January 21, 2021, 09:18:24 PM »
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But rendering the south and their support for slavery to be equivalent to the Nazi's is not objectively valid.

I suppose not - they were not equivalent - but in some ways, slavery was worse.

Well, the Nazi's did that too.

But for the Confederates, unlike the Nazis, with few exceptions, the Confederates weren't deliberately turning previously free people into slaves. The enslavements themselves either happened in Africa, or Colonial America for the most part. And if you're wanting to condemn the practice of slavery itself, you need to remember that the Confederacy only existed for 5 yeas. The United States allowed slavery to exist for decades under its own banner. (The UK gets a double whammy, the Union Jack was involved in enslavements and slave trading for centuries. So if you're condemning on the basis of slavery alone...)

LetterRip

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #351 on: January 21, 2021, 09:53:50 PM »
The confederates were treating slaves like animals forcing them to breed or raping the women and then taking their children and forcing the children to be slaves.  I think that is likely worse than kidnapping people and forcing them into slavery.  It is a bit absurd trying to say which horrifically evil thing is worse.  I think calling it an evilness of a similar nature and vileness with holocaust appropriate.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 09:59:50 PM by LetterRip »

Aris Katsaris

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #352 on: January 21, 2021, 10:05:06 PM »
And if you're wanting to condemn the practice of slavery itself, you need to remember that the Confederacy only existed for 5 yeas. The United States allowed slavery to exist for decades under its own banner. (The UK gets a double whammy, the Union Jack was involved in enslavements and slave trading for centuries. So if you're condemning on the basis of slavery alone...)

It's exactly because it lasted for only 5 years that it's very easy to judge it and condemn it in its entirety for the cause it championed in those 5 years. Same as it's easy to judge Nazi Germany, but not Germany as a whole.

The Union Jack of the British Empire, lasting for centuries, and likewise with the United States, are conversely NOT to be condemned in their entirety for they have fought on both sides of good and evil at different points.

DonaldD

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #353 on: January 21, 2021, 10:30:06 PM »
I thought it was implied, but by "slavery" I meant "slavery in the United States, which predated the confederacy proper, which itself was made up primarily of the states that most benefitted by slavery, and that went to war to fight to maintain its practice ".  Oh and of course, this slavery, which lasted for centuries in the colonies and states making up the confederacy (not just those states, but pretending it was only 5 years that could be blamed on the confederacy, when the illness was endemic in the USA, but primarily the southern states, for more than half the existence of the USA in total, is... interesting).

I would wager there is not a person in the USA above the age of 15 who has not had it explained to them, reported to them, or heard the explanation, that the confederacy fought to maintain the practice of slavery, and the confederate battle flag is directly tied to that - not to put too fine a point on it - evil regime.  If you have to bring up the nazis to make the confederacy look better, you're not doing it right.

DonaldD

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Re: Pencemegeddon
« Reply #354 on: Today at 09:32:32 AM »
I know it's beating a dead horse, and is overshadowed by the president and members of congress effectively inciting insurrection, but The New York Times has a piece on how Trump was seriously considering ousting the acting US AG and replacing him with Jeffrey Clark, a Justice Department lawyer and a graduate of internet university, who almost convinced the president he could unilaterally undo the Georgia presidential election results: Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General.  This was happening concurrently with the president trying to brow beat Georgia AG Raffensperger into fraudulently discarding ballots cast for Biden.