coronavirus

[TheDrake]

So everybody should just be wearing masks all the time, because there are a lot of communicable diseases - including existing influenza, viral pneumonia, bronchitis : all of which are dangerous to the same group of people at risk of dying from covid19?

Is your sticking point really about semantics? So if the SG said, "Most people lack the training to properly use masks, which may actually increase their risk and risk to people around them. There is some value to people not belonging to a risk group, if properly trained, but believed to be marginal. Since masks are in short supply, we do not recommend that healthy people wear one unless they believe they may have been exposed to the virus."

Because the recommendation still stays the same, its just a lot of gibberish to go along with the message.

[TheDrake]

Well I'm operating on the assumption that there will be plenty of masks for everyone very shortly.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "very shortly".

The relentless whir of machines echoing across a cavernous French factory floor this week is an unexpected result of the deadly virus that has nearly paralyzed cities in China and other parts of Asia. The company, Kolmi Hopen, happens to make an item that is suddenly one of the world’s hottest commodities: the medical face mask.

The factory, in Angers, typically makes around 170 million masks a year, but in the last week orders arrived for a staggering half a billion, flooding the sales department’s inboxes at the rate of one every two minutes. Kolmi Hopen is racing to hire more workers to keep the machines running 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

“We’re making masks as fast as we can,” said Guillaume Laverdure, the chief operating officer of Kolmi Hopen’s parent company, Canada-based Medicom, as forklift drivers moved boxes of freshly finished masks into trucks.

“But demand is still rising,” he added.

The coronavirus outbreak has set off a run on protective masks across China and in other major cities. To curb the spread of the virus, the Chinese government has ordered citizens to don masks every time they go outside. Medical professionals say once used, a mask must be replaced with a fresh one, driving an explosion in demand. Grim scenes of people lined up for hours to get a protective face covering, only to be turned away when pharmacies run out, have become familiar.

So there's China, advocating just what you seem to be, and lining up for hours to get a mask that doesn't exist. I wonder - how much exposure is there when you're standing in a dense line for hours without any mask?

Meanwhile, demand has tripled and is rising. I wonder how many industries can sustain a tripling of production? What happens to the upstream raw materials? I don't have any first hand knowledge of exactly how hard it is to repurpose production lines at factories not making masks, but I suspect it isn't that simple.

[rightleft22]

If your a health care worker or infected a mask makes sense otherwise not so much

[cherrypoptart]

I apologize but I'm going pick this nit one last time.

qft: "If you're sick, stay home."

The point with this thing that makes it so different is that people ARE sick but they have NO IDEA.   

I'll lay off it now. But it really is crucial. Even our own Surgeon General doesn't seem to understand it.

[cherrypoptart]

They are just masks. They aren't being spun out of gold here.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/article240793216.html

"Electronics maker Sharp Corp. said Monday it will start making surgical masks, which are in high demand because of the virus outbreak, using a plant in central Japan that usually makes displays.

Sharp, owned by Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., also known as FoxConn, of Taiwan, said mask production at its Mie Prefecture plant will start by the end of this month, at 150,000 masks a day, rising to 500,000 a day.

Electronics displays are generally made in what are called “germ-free” plants for the sake of high quality. So small particles can't get into the manufacturing process, making it a good place for mask-making."

This would be part of emergency measures, having manufacturing plants that don't usually make masks repurposed to the task, and other tasks to help in containment.

The point is to slow this thing down until a vaccine arrives we're going to have to be willing to accept a new normal, and that will include masks and knowing how to use them properly. The alternatives are mass quarantines and travel restrictions or just  letting it spread by cryptic transmission.

It's a bit like in The Walking Dead. Spoiler Alert. How do you tell who is infected and who is not, who has the virus that causes them to rise as a walker after death and who would just stay dead? You don't. Everyone is infected. Well with this it isn't nearly that bad thank goodness but with no way to tell who is infected and who isn't, the only safe assumption is that everyone is infected so everyone has to wear a mask to keep from spreading it before they know they have it.

[TheDrake]

They are just masks. They aren't being spun out of gold here.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/article240793216.html

"Electronics maker Sharp Corp. said Monday it will start making surgical masks, which are in high demand because of the virus outbreak, using a plant in central Japan that usually makes displays.

Sharp, owned by Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., also known as FoxConn, of Taiwan, said mask production at its Mie Prefecture plant will start by the end of this month, at 150,000 masks a day, rising to 500,000 a day.

Electronics displays are generally made in what are called “germ-free” plants for the sake of high quality. So small particles can't get into the manufacturing process, making it a good place for mask-making."

This would be part of emergency measures, having manufacturing plants that don't usually make masks repurposed to the task, and other tasks to help in containment.

Good to know. Billions of masks would make most of this discussion moot. I'm not sure many electronics manufacturers are going to see a profit motive switching from cell phone displays to masks. It looks like Sharp is doing this because they see it as a public benefit or a PR opportunity.

By "having manufacturing plants" do you mean voluntarily?

[cherrypoptart]

Well it may be that we'll have plenty enough soon enough with just the production being increased to meet demand. But if it came to it the government could ask for volunteers and if that didn't cut it I see it being within the Constitutional power of our government to force companies to make masks.

And I could be wrong on that.

Now they couldn't make the employees of the company do it but they could take over the equipment and have contractors or military personnel do it.

Has there ever been a case like that? Would it be like Reagan firing the striking air traffic controllers? Not quite. Any other cases closer? Maybe like a ship builder being forced to make warships instead of fishing trawlers.

[yossarian22c]

Has there ever been a case like that? Would it be like Reagan firing the striking air traffic controllers? Not quite. Any other cases closer? Maybe like a ship builder being forced to make warships instead of fishing trawlers.

Not sure how optional it was for GM to switch from cars to tanks in WWII. Any of our historians know how voluntary that transition was?

[cherrypoptart]

This might come into play more with the vaccine that with the masks. It was even an episode of The West Wing.

If the government decides to give away the vaccine and pay the maker a lower price than what the maker thinks is fair and the maker refuses to make it or does make it but refuses to sell it especially with a lot of international demand, what rights does the government have then?

Or what rights does the company have?

I doubt it would come into play though. I would hope everyone is on the same page here. Plus our government is basically just making up money anyway and would gladly pay through the nose, taking the campaign contributions that come later on the back end with the usual quid pro quo and doing some insider trader on the side.

[TheDrake]

Interesting thought about WW2. Indeed, there was the War Production Board - basically like a command economy seen in communist countries? Maybe a little more light handed. It was created by executive order - national emergency anyone?

[Kasandra]

FWIW, COVID-19 testing is covered under Medicare. 

[ScottF]

Some common sense:

"Wuhan China has the highest concentration of Coronavirus. Out of a population of about 75-million, about 75-Thousand have gotten ill. So if you are in the epicenter there is only a 1-in-1000 chance you will get ill. Conclusion: You are probably not going to get Coronavirus."

"Of those who get Coronavirus, 80% experience nothing worse than the common cold. The remaining 20% will experience pneumonia-like symptoms and may require treatment or hospitalization. Conclusion: If you are the unlucky 1-in-a-thousand person who gets Coronavirus, it will probably be a 2-week illness and then you will be fine."

"Coronavirus kills roughly 1.4% of the people who contract it. This means it kills 14 people in 1-Million. Sounds bad, right? Well, the death rate is 14,000 people per million in any given year. So Coronavirus represents only a 0.1% increase in the natural death rate. Conclusion: The death rate from Coronavirus is so small that it is statistically insignificant."

"Most of the people who die from Coronavirus are those with weakened immune systems…persons who are already close to being included in the natural death statistics. Conclusion: Coronavirus is somewhat (slightly) accelerating the death of people who are near death; if you keep healthy the odds strongly suggest you will be just fine."

https://talkingpointz.com/coronavirus-get-over-it/

[yossarian22c]

"Wuhan China has the highest concentration of Coronavirus. Out of a population of about 75-million, about 75-Thousand have gotten ill. So if you are in the epicenter there is only a 1-in-1000 chance you will get ill. Conclusion: You are probably not going to get Coronavirus."

True - however. 1-in-1000 got sick while China took the most draconian isolation/quarantine measures ever. So how we respond affects all of those numbers following. But yes I do think we're going to at some point have to accept that CV-19 is here to stay and it will circulate around the world seasonally like a more severe flu.

Flu kills about 50,000 per year in the US - and we can vaccinate the most vulnerable populations. Vaccination also slows the spread of flu by providing less people susceptible to being infected and spreading. CV-19 likely has a death rate 5-10 times as high. So if we just treat it like regular flu deaths (just in the US) due to flu+CV19 would probably range in the 100,000-500,000 per year. Should the world be freaking out as much as we are - probably not. Should health agencies and the public do as much as possible to slow its spread until we have a working vaccine, absolutely.

[yossarian22c]

Sorry the 50,000 number is not a typical year but a severe flu year in the US.

[ScottF]

Should health agencies and the public do as much as possible to slow its spread until we have a working vaccine, absolutely.

My company is considering closing our main office and having everyone work remotely (a lot of my customers have already done so). Everyone is more worried about covering their asses than thinking rationally.

We might be saying the same thing, but this should boil down to broad education efforts on common-sense measures that should always be practiced, not shutting offices and schools down.

[cherrypoptart]

I guess I'm not willing to discard the elderly and those with respiratory and immune issues so casually.

If this thing takes hold and it's added to the regular flu and cold season every year we are looking at a mass culling of those people every year going forward.

I'd rather try drastic steps now to keep that from happening, if possible. It doesn't look like it's possible anymore but if a better quarantine had been put in place at the beginning it might have been.

[yossarian22c]

I guess I'm not willing to discard the elderly and those with respiratory and immune issues so casually.

If this thing takes hold and it's added to the regular flu and cold season every year we are looking at a mass culling of those people every year going forward.

I'd rather try drastic steps now to keep that from happening, if possible. It doesn't look like it's possible anymore but if a better quarantine had been put in place at the beginning it might have been.

I largely agree with this. We take big steps now to slow its progress and give the vaccine makes billions of dollars to get something ready ASAP. Panic isn't the right response but Washington shows how deadly this is in a nursing home. I wouldn't like to see that repeated across the country.

[ScottF]

That's the thing, I don't think this is stoppable and "slowing" won't work anyway. From the same article:

"vaccines usually take 5~10 years to be approved and need a minimum of 1~2 years to prove that they don’t cause more harm than good. Nothing is on the near-term horizon. We will eventually have an answer, but not this year and not next year. "

My guess is these shutdowns will last until the virus is ubiquitous, and then we'll return to some version of normal. I'm not downplaying the severity around the susceptible - that's my parents. But I'm not down with ineffective measures that feel correct in the moment but may damage more than help.

[TheDrake]

Hand washing is one of the most effective prevention methods. Could some of that $8 billion go towards the development of a hands-free faucet that doesn't shut off once every second while you scrub? Or never start in the first place?

[DonaldD]

3.4% Mortality Rate estimate by the World Health Organization (WHO) as of March 3

[ScottF]

Elon agrees with me.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1236029449042198528

[rightleft22]

It feels to me as if a tipping point has been tipped and everything were doing to slow it down well end up doing more harm then good.

[cherrypoptart]

Doing more harm as in causing the virus to spread more or doing more harm as in economic?

That seems to be where we're at. Your money or your life. Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 23.

[rightleft22]

Doing more harm as in causing the virus to spread more or doing more harm as in economic?
That seems to be where we're at. Your money or your life.

If the tipping point has been tipped the virus is gong to spread regardless of what we do so I wonder if maybe we should just get it over with.


That said a 3% death rate would overwhelm the health system and a severe economic down turn... It doesn't look like we are going to be able to avoid both and its possible a severe economic downturn would involve even greater loss of life.

[DonaldD]

As mentioned previously... there are known and expected benefits in slowing down the spread of the virus.

#1 not overwhelming the medical system by spreading out those requiring treatment across a longer period of time.
#2 it is likely that transmission rates will fall as temperatures rise in the northern hemisphere.

[TheDeamon]

Doing more harm as in causing the virus to spread more or doing more harm as in economic?

That seems to be where we're at. Your money or your life. Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 23.

Both in a lot of ways, economic harm is likely to have far more lasting impacts on the lives of the rest of the human population vs simply getting it over with.

That said, I do think trying to slow it down for another couple of weeks is a good idea, but if they're still trying come the end of the month, they're trying to push a boulder uphill, without mechanical assistance.

Edit: Which isn't to mention, if nothing else, it gives various agencies to learn what works and doesn't work for containment strategies going forward. Better to learn from this one than write it off right now and leave those lessons to be discovered after the fact with something far more deadly.

[Kasandra]

It feels to me as if a tipping point has been tipped and everything were doing to slow it down well end up doing more harm then good.

I'm not sure where you're seeing the tipping point.  The number of cases being reported is accelerating in the US and is climbing steadily in several other countries.  The reported 3.4% fatality rate is probably high, but is an indicator that there are far more cases that haven't yet been detected.  The death rate will (likely) decline when we have a better accounting of how many people have been infected.

[Crunch]

I guess I'm not willing to discard the elderly and those with respiratory and immune issues so casually.

If this thing takes hold and it's added to the regular flu and cold season every year we are looking at a mass culling of those people every year going forward.

I'd rather try drastic steps now to keep that from happening, if possible. It doesn't look like it's possible anymore but if a better quarantine had been put in place at the beginning it might have been.

I largely agree with this. We take big steps now to slow its progress and give the vaccine makes billions of dollars to get something ready ASAP. Panic isn't the right response but Washington shows how deadly this is in a nursing home. I wouldn't like to see that repeated across the country.

Panic isn’t the right response but it is the preferred response. Th greater the hysteria and overreaction, the greater the economic impact, the better it gets for Democrats.

Bill Maher famously voiced the left’s desire for a recession in order to take down Trump. This may be what turns the dream into reality. If the media and the left (but I repeat myself) can spin up the hysteria levels sufficiently, it might work. That’s why the NYT wants everyone to call it the “Trump Virus”.

Case in point, fatality rate. With an estimated 20% to 50% of cases never being recognized, the fatality rate sounds really bad. But they report it endlessly anyway and rarely or never mention it’s certainly not as bad as they make out.

At this point, the hysteria machine is far more dangerous than the virus. See the video of people fighting over toilet paper...

I know a few of you are going to embrace the logical fallacy and insist on a false dichotomy that I must join the hysteria or I’m completely dismissing any risks but that’s not true. There is a middle ground where just purchasing a few extra items when you go to the store, washing your hands, don’t pick your nose, etc will be sufficient to address the infection for at least 80% of us.

If you’re over 80 years old or have other health issues that would put you at risk, you may consider taking more aggressive steps.

Of course, if you’re really worried, we could close the border. Anybody notice how that’s not a way to control the spread of this? People are crapping their pants about events like SXSW with people coming from all over but talk about actually doing the most common sense thing and stopping the uncontrolled flow of illegal immigration is not a part of the discussion.

[ScottF]

“... would make covid-19 closer in lethality to influenza in severe or pandemic flu seasons according to an article in the New England Journal of Medicine co-authored by Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

The article states that the true fatality rate of covid-19 “may be considerably less” than 1 percent, and “may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.”

[fizz]

Welllll... our government is about to seriously up the ante: considering that we are at 5883 total cases (5061 currently infected, about half in home quarantine and half in hospital care, plus 589 cured and 233 dead), with a doubling time of 2,6 days even with current measures, government is about to follow WHO recommendations and move to a higher level.

Later in the night, according to the draft that have already been published, should come out a new decree that put in quarantine like the previous lock down zone all of Lombardy plus other 11 cities (including mine).
 
This means travel between cities will be forbidden in all but special approved cases, all gatherings for any reason forbidden (including mass, marriages, funerals and so on), all public activities (museums, cinema, spas, beauty parlors etc.) closed, bar and restaurants can remain open only on condition that they can enforce a strict 1m minimum distance between customers, supermarkets will have reduced opening time to allow for better sanitization of the environment, and schools will remain closed at least the whole march, then we will see...

They have issued 20k new job opening for medical professional, including opening the chance for retired professionals to come back to work, and of course blocked any vacations or time off for them till emergency is over.

Oh, and we are taking these measures without the issue of having a November election campaign, and doing this notwithstanding an economy that *will* suffer a lot as a consequence, so...

[Kasandra]

“... would make covid-19 closer in lethality to influenza in severe or pandemic flu seasons according to an article in the New England Journal of Medicine co-authored by Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

The article states that the true fatality rate of covid-19 “may be considerably less” than 1 percent, and “may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.”

It's too early to play "Beat the Reaper" with coronavirus.  But here's another creative way to keep the death toll down:

"I would rather because I like the numbers being where they are. I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault," Trump continued.

"And it wasn't the fault of the people on the ship either," Trump added. "It wasn't their fault either and they're mostly Americans, so I can live either way with it. I'd rather have them stay on but I fully understand if they'd rather take them off. I gave them the authority to make the decision."

So, he'd rather the Americans stay on board a ship that is the worst possible place to quarantine them just so "the numbers [don't] double".  He doesn't seem to understand that Americans who die are counted as Americans who die, and that every person who dies can have their infection traced back to the source in China.  Who is he trying to bluff here?

Somebody come to his defense.  I know you're here.

[fizz]

A blog post from one of the doctors working on the front line in one of the hospitals near the first hot spots: its translated with google translate, but seems a decent enough one...

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=it&tab=TT&authuser=0&sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecodibergamo.it%2Fstories%2Fbergamo-citta%2Fcon-le-nostre-azioni-influenziamola-vita-e-la-morte-di-molte-persone_1344030_11%2F

[Kasandra]

Absolutely chilling.

[Crunch]

Meanwhile, the common flu causes up to 5 million cases of severe illness worldwide and kills up to 650,000 people every year, according to the World Health Organization.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that so far this season, there have been at least 15 million flu illnesses for the 2019-2020 season, 140,000 hospitalizations and 8,200 deaths in the U.S. The CDC reports there have been 54 reported flu-related pediatric deaths this season from Influenza B viruses.

Nobody freaked out, no hysteria. Barely a blurb on the news, if even that.

Coronavirus, 20 deaths in the US, under 4,000 globally. MASS HYSTERIA. Orange man bad!  Close everything down! “But muh Trump!”, shout the NPC’s.

TDS has made way too many people completely irrational.

[Kasandra]

Meanwhile, the common flu causes up to 5 million cases of severe illness worldwide and kills up to 650,000 people every year, according to the World Health Organization.

Note that the WHO estimates the total number of deaths to be between 290,000 and 650,000, so you cherry-picked the top end of their range without qualifying it.

Nobody freaked out, no hysteria. Barely a blurb on the news, if even that.

According to the CDC the 2018-2019 flu season was the longest on record, lasting 21 weeks.  We're about 4-10 weeks into the coronavirus infection cycle globally and the disease has no natural vector in the US.  In other words it is being imported into the US, is gaining a foothold and will spread dramatically.  Comparing its progress against any of the 4 flu varieties is therefore irrelevant.  Let's wait until the disease hits full force and begins to decline before passing any sort of judgment on its infection rate and severity.

MASS HYSTERIA. Orange man bad!  Close everything down! “But muh Trump!”, shout the NPC’s.

I'm assuming you don't think taking any precautions is a good idea.  Using "NPC" puts you firmly in the camp of virulent anti-liberal Trumpies.  That's not a fatal virus, but it's very unhealthy.

[fizz]

Coronavirus, 20 deaths in the US, under 4,000 globally. MASS HYSTERIA. Orange man bad!  Close everything down! “But muh Trump!”, shout the NPC’s.

TDS has made way too many people completely irrational.

I would like to point out that my country and my national healthcare system behaviors and strategies in front of this pandemic are very  much not related at all to Trump and his re-election or not, as we've frankly our own problems to deal with.

The WHO recommendations and the strategies that are being considered by all the world governments are also not related to Trump at all, and believe me, I doubt there is a single government around the world that is eager to sink their own economy, so if the professionals are adopting these strategies, and the governments are enacting them knowing that they will be wildly unpopular, I would be careful before dismissing all their concerns as panic and stupidity.

The testimony of that doctor I linked tell firsthand about the practical difference between this virus and the flu: those differences are not trivial, and its for professionals to judge them, also because it will be those professionals job to deal with the consequences.

And if you want to know what a geometric progression looks like, compared to yesterday evening 5883 cases and 233 dead, we are today at 7375, with 366 dead, this in about two weeks since the recognition of the actual outbreak.

There are panicky behaviors, like those women that fought for toilet paper in Australia, the people cramming in queues to enter supermarkets, the people that at the announcement of the lock down jumped on crowded trains to escape the lock down zones, and there are sensible countermeasures to flatten the curve, don't overload the hospitals with a peak and try to earn some time for the doctors to do their job, that you can essentially sum up as "quarantine everything that can be quarantined".

Please don't mix the two things and think that's all about Trump.

[Kasandra]

Buona fortuna e salute a tutti voi!

[fizz]

Buona fortuna e salute a tutti voi!

Grazie! 

[LetterRip]

A really good write up on Corona Virus at Arstechica

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/dont-panic-the-comprehensive-ars-technica-guide-to-the-coronavirus/

Explains the reasoning for not wearing masks by people who aren't sick, etc.

I have some quibbles with it, but this is probably the best writeup I've seen.

[Kasandra]

What quibbles? I think what they say makes sense.

I'll also throw in that the hand-washing thing is not as effective as the authorities want you to believe, even though it's still a good idea.  If you bring home a bag of food, for example, or were using your phone while you were out, then any germs that would be on your hands could have been transferred to those things.  If you wash your hands when you get home, then pick up the bag to empty it or check your phone, you may have touched infected surfaces.  The same is true for the clothes you were wearing on your outing.  Etc., etc.  There are so many ways that we don't "isolate" our bodies that taking a few precautions only somewhat lessens the risk of exposure and infection, but doesn't eliminate it.

[TheDeamon]

What quibbles? I think what they say makes sense.

I'll also throw in that the hand-washing thing is not as effective as the authorities want you to believe, even though it's still a good idea.  If you bring home a bag of food, for example, or were using your phone while you were out, then any germs that would be on your hands could have been transferred to those things.  If you wash your hands when you get home, then pick up the bag to empty it or check your phone, you may have touched infected surfaces.  The same is true for the clothes you were wearing on your outing.  Etc., etc.  There are so many ways that we don't "isolate" our bodies that taking a few precautions only somewhat lessens the risk of exposure and infection, but doesn't eliminate it.

Pretty much, washing your hands, only to pick up your phone, which you didn't sanitize, likely puts you back at square 1. Even then, sanitizing your phone, only to put it back in your pocket, or wherever it normally resides, is likely to put it right back in a unsanitary state as well. Sterilizing things, and keeping them sterile, is difficult at the best of times. Trying to do so at a sink in a public restroom? Good luck.

Washing your hands does still result in a reduction in the total number of germs on your hands, and the medium those germs need to thrive, so it isn't completely futile, but it isn't the full story either.

[Kasandra]

I don't have a good idea how to make it happen, but we need to take into account the mortality rate of COVID-19 based on age groups.  The forum software doesn't support tables, so here's a poor man's reproduction of that site's statistics. My takeaway is that this is clearly an age-risk related illness.

If you are under 50 years old, you don't need to take extraordinary precautions, but everyone under 50 should minimize or avoid contact with people over that age.  Those over 50 (I'm in the 8% group) should "self-isolate" or at least take extra precautions.   

AGE.........................DEATH RATE all cases
80+ years old...........14.8%
70-79 years old..........8.0%
60-69 years old..........3.6%
50-59 years old..........1.3%
40-49 years old..........0.4%
30-39 years old..........0.2%
20-29 years old..........0.2%
10-19 years old..........0.2%
0-9 years old.............no fatalities

[rightleft22]

The same is true for the clothes you were wearing on your outing

I was watching a episode of Real time with Bill Maher and he was talking about not shaking hands anymore and stuff
Then when a quest come on he bowed and touched them on the the upper arm right were your would cough... totally unaware... funniest thing I ever saw on his show.

[Kasandra]

Hey, Crunch, you think Mr. Ed is a stable genius.  I'm not one myself, but maybe you put yourself in that category with him and can explain what he's saying in response to a reporter's question about whether he still thinks shutting down the White House global health security unit was a good idea.

"I just think this is something, Peter, that you can never really think is going to happen. You know, who -- I've heard all about, 'This could be...' -- you know, 'This could be a big deal,' from before it happened. You know, this -- something like this could happen.... Who would have thought? Look, how long ago is it? Six, seven, eight weeks ago -- who would have thought we would even be having the subject? ... You never really know when something like this is going to strike and what it's going to be."

It makes me wonder if he really is as smart as Mr. Ed after all.

[Crunch]

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Mr Ed?

[Kasandra]

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Mr Ed?

Until Trump, Mr. Ed was the only stable genius I knew of.

[fizz]

Always with the purpose of providing a preview of what will happen a bit everywhere, well, that's it: now they've put in lock down all of Italy.

Today numbers are 9172 infected and 463 dead. The percentages of serious cases are starting to climb dramatically, but in practice in the past few days they have stopped doing carpet testing and are only testing people that go to hospitals with strong symptoms, for people that have only light symptoms they simply recommend self-quarantine and self-care, so likely the total number of real infected is much higher.

[Kasandra]

Not to one-up you, but the US is far behind Italy in testing, reporting and taking effective action.  I predict (sadly) that the outbreak in the US will be far worse than any other country in the world.

[Crunch]

Coronavirus, 20 deaths in the US, under 4,000 globally. MASS HYSTERIA. Orange man bad!  Close everything down! “But muh Trump!”, shout the NPC’s.

TDS has made way too many people completely irrational.

I would like to point out that my country and my national healthcare system behaviors and strategies in front of this pandemic are very  much not related at all to Trump and his re-election or not, as we've frankly our own problems to deal with.

The WHO recommendations and the strategies that are being considered by all the world governments are also not related to Trump at all, and believe me, I doubt there is a single government around the world that is eager to sink their own economy, so if the professionals are adopting these strategies, and the governments are enacting them knowing that they will be wildly unpopular, I would be careful before dismissing all their concerns as panic and stupidity.

The testimony of that doctor I linked tell firsthand about the practical difference between this virus and the flu: those differences are not trivial, and its for professionals to judge them, also because it will be those professionals job to deal with the consequences.

And if you want to know what a geometric progression looks like, compared to yesterday evening 5883 cases and 233 dead, we are today at 7375, with 366 dead, this in about two weeks since the recognition of the actual outbreak.

There are panicky behaviors, like those women that fought for toilet paper in Australia, the people cramming in queues to enter supermarkets, the people that at the announcement of the lock down jumped on crowded trains to escape the lock down zones, and there are sensible countermeasures to flatten the curve, don't overload the hospitals with a peak and try to earn some time for the doctors to do their job, that you can essentially sum up as "quarantine everything that can be quarantined".

Please don't mix the two things and think that's all about Trump.

But mixing what’s going on in your country with what’s going on in the US is totally reasonable. Ever think that may, just maybe, the US media has a different agenda that your government? Maybe the media sees a benefit to driving hysteria that the WHO doesn’t share? Or, is the US media reporting everything exactly the same as what’s being reported by you government?

I can, and did, point to places where Democrat pundits expressed a desire to see the US economy to enter recession.

Maybe what’s going on in your corner of the world is different than what’s happening in the US. I suggest you consider that.

[Kasandra]

I can, and did, point to places where Democrat pundits expressed a desire to see the US economy to enter recession.

It's confounding, depressing and frankly weird that you think a fatal disease is somehow created and spread by propaganda.