coronavirus

[yossarian22c]

Just a good article that makes a lot of sense especially about the false dichotomies and the layered defense approach.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/pandemic-intuition-nightmare-spiral-winter/616204/

Just one example of many the article highlights.

"Showiness is often mistaken for effectiveness. The coronavirus mostly spreads through air rather than contaminated surfaces, but many businesses are nonetheless trying to scrub and bleach their way toward reopening. My colleague Derek Thompson calls this hygiene theater—dramatic moves that appear to offer safety without actually doing so. The same charge applies to temperature checks, which can’t detect the many COVID-19 patients who don’t have a fever."

Yeah, I've never understood the "deep cleaning of surfaces." Usually after a confirmed infection and the amount of time it takes to do a deep cleaning the virus would have died on it surface on its own.

Fever checks are slightly more effective. As they will at least screen out people with clear symptoms so there is a real small benefit. The surface cleaning I agree is almost complete hygiene theater much the same way a lot of what the TSA does is security theater.

[DonaldD]

Yeah, I feel there is a bit of hygiene momentum/inertia: there was a time when fomites were thought to be a major factor in the novel coronavirus transmission.  Now that it is thought to be less so, people, businesses and even government agencies are still trained to focus there.  Don't get me wrong, fomites are involved in transmission, and hand and face hygiene are not bad, just not as important as originally thought.

[TheDrake]

I guess we're going to see what a true "let 'er rip" strategy turns out like.

Florida is going to phase 3 of reopening, with very little allowance for local controls. That means bars at 100% capacity, gyms, etc etc. No masks! Anything goes!

[yossarian22c]

I guess we're going to see what a true "let 'er rip" strategy turns out like.

Florida is going to phase 3 of reopening, with very little allowance for local controls. That means bars at 100% capacity, gyms, etc etc. No masks! Anything goes!

Is it insanely cynical of me to think the Florida governor timed this so that he could get the slight economic boost prior to the election but you don't see worst of the spread until after the election. I actually think he knows its going to cause a surge in cases but with it taking up to two weeks to see symptoms the worst of the spread is likely to happen right around election day and beyond. So voters won't see the consequences until after the election as hospitals start to fill up and exponential growth of cases continues.

[cherrypoptart]

Just sharing another interesting article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/genetic-science-coronavirus-outbreak-iowa/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[TheDrake]

Just sharing another interesting article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/genetic-science-coronavirus-outbreak-iowa/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Sorry, why is that interesting? The first couple of paragraphs about the beef department didn't grab me. Meat processing has always been horribly dangerous and riddled with disease. What else is new. Now we're suddenly paying attention because of covid?

[cherrypoptart]

I liked the genetic sleuthing part of it but yeah after that it kind of rambled.

[DJQuag]

TBF we got covid because Chinese people like to buy live bats for dinner.

All the best diseases come from animals. That we've not had anything noticeable in the West since smallpox doesn't change that.

[NobleHunter]

Yeah, who noticed that flu after the first world war.

[LetterRip]

Not sure if the bat comment was serious - generally transmission of virus from bats is via saliva.  Bat eats food and saliva is left on the food, the food gets finished being eaten by another animal which gets infected by the saliva.  Or a bat is eaten by scavenger.

Bat viruses generally have to mutate in a different animal before the are compatible with human glycoprotein and receptors.

Last I read covid-19 was probably from stray dog (again not as food necessarily - saliva or fecal contamination of a surface or food could cause it ).

[DJQuag]

Yeah, who noticed that flu after the first world war.

My bad.

Who's noticed a disease that transferred between species and made a big deal since the Spanish Flu. Is it okay if we still call it Spanish Flu? Spanish people are reasonably white after all.

Christ. Every single new dangerous disease comes from animals. That's a fact. If it wasn't new or deadly it would at best be something we all have learned to deal with. Like the flu.

This disease came out of China and it happened because of the live animal markets. It's not racist to say it.

[DJQuag]

Something something *it was really the Americans spreading the Spanish flu!!!*

[TheDrake]

And now Trump has the covid. Wonder if it will change his tune like being hospitalized did for Boris. Then there's this gem from Breitbart.

God didn’t bring President Trump this far just to have covid trip him up. President Trump will be just fine because the hand of God has been upon President Trump from the time he came down the escalator until now and God isn’t about to hand the reigns of America over to Satan.

[noel c.]

Drake,

“And now Trump has the covid. Wonder if it will change his tune like being hospitalized did for Boris. Then there's this gem from Breitbart.”

Not just Trump, but his wife, staff members Robert O'Brien, Hope Hicks, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Tomas Philipson, Katie Miller, a WH valet, a Pence staffer, and a Marine guard on chopper One also tested positive.

I doubt that contraction of COVID-19 will significantly impact Trump’s work routine, even given his age (74). The more interesting question is; will his response to becoming a member of “the herd” change your mind about practical strategies for dealing with SARS-CoV-2?

[DonaldD]

Well, I do hope they all remain asymptomatic and recover quickly.

I expect this will have to change his day-to-day campaign routine, though. And it'll have to change some of the debate setup, at least.

[msquared]

Assuming he is tested every day, he is most likely not showing any symptoms yet. Let's give it a week and see what happens. Unless they go virtual, my guess is the next debate is off (not the VP one next week) but the next one with Biden? I wonder if this is a ploy to get out of debates?

[DonaldD]

I don't think they were being tested every day, because they made a point of getting tested after Hicks' diagnosis, and since Trump is already showing symptoms, he has probably been seropositive for a few days.

[DonaldD]

And now Trump has the covid. Wonder if it will change his tune like being hospitalized did for Boris. Then there's this gem from Breitbart.

God didn’t bring President Trump this far just to have covid trip him up. President Trump will be just fine because the hand of God has been upon President Trump from the time he came down the escalator until now and God isn’t about to hand the reigns of America over to Satan.

It does make one wonder why God hated Herman Cain... and, oh, 200,000+ other dead Americans...

[yossarian22c]

I don't think they were being tested every day, because they made a point of getting tested after Hicks' diagnosis, and since Trump is already showing symptoms, he has probably been seropositive for a few days.

Which calls into question if he possibly infected Biden during the debate.

[DonaldD]

According to Trump's doctor, Navy Commander Dr. Sean Conley "Trump had been administered a Regeneron polyclonal antibody cocktail and has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and a daily aspirin."

Something is missing...

[TheDrake]

According to Trump's doctor, Navy Commander Dr. Sean Conley "Trump had been administered a Regeneron polyclonal antibody cocktail and has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin and a daily aspirin."

Something is missing...

Bleach injections?

[DonaldD]

Whoa:

CNN: President Donald Trump will be hospitalized at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center and remain there for several days, the White House said Friday afternoon.

Possibly a surfeit of caution?

[cherrypoptart]

It's interesting that he is apparently prescribed a daily aspirin. That's what I took when I thought I had it and I believe it helped out a lot. What's interesting is that I haven't seen that suggested in the news for people generally. The vast majority would be fine with a daily or even every other day chewable baby aspirin with or without symptoms for the next year or so until this thing dies down. Since inflammation is one of the main problems and aspirin works well as an anti-inflammatory this seems like a no-brainer. Of course some people have adverse reactions and long term it may raise the risk of internal bleeding but I have to wonder if this would have been widely suggested much earlier perhaps some people could have avoided the very bad outcomes they experienced. Of course always check with your doctor and all that but it seems like a very low risk possibly high reward situation.

[TheDrake]

Whoa:

CNN: President Donald Trump will be hospitalized at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center and remain there for several days, the White House said Friday afternoon.

Possibly a surfeit of caution?

I assume so. The only way we'll know if he gets worse is probably if he's forced to invoke the 25th. You know his administration doesn't want anyone to hear that his symptoms worsen. We're a ways off from that, however. I imagine we'll not see much of Pence in public, because they won't want to risk Acting President Pelosi.

[DonaldD]

It's interesting that he is apparently prescribed a daily aspirin. That's what I took when I thought I had it and I believe it helped out a lot.

Trump "has been taking" those other drugs - I expect his taking the aspirin is due to his elevated blood pressure and coronary plaque build-up, and pre-dated his diagnosis last night.  In fact, he was known to be taking aspirin at least in 2018 according to his doctor at the time and the White Houe.

[TheDrake]

“Mr. Trump has had a complete medical examination that showed only positive results. Actually, his blood pressure and lab results were astonishingly excellent.”

[DonaldD]

Oh yes - but the White House still did list that he was taking aspirin back in 2018.

[yossarian22c]

So from mild symptoms to taking experimental drugs and the hospital in 12 hours. That progressed fast.

[DJQuag]

Eh. No one else is going to say it but I will. I hope he dies.

[DonaldD]

Republican Senator Kelly Loeffler on Twitter:

Kelly Loeffler
@KLoeffler - US Senate candidate, GA-Special

Remember: China gave this virus to our President @realDonaldTrump and First Lady
@FLOTUS
. 

WE MUST HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

The stupid - it burns!

OK, it's time for a reality check - the White House is now a coronavirus hotspot, and Republicans in the Senate, as well as in the administration, are basically all at risk, primarily because they have been acting like irresponsible twats for months now. By ignoring hygiene directives, speaking out against CDC directions, and worst of all encouraging their supporters to do the same for purely political reasons, they have put themselves as we'll as the general public at additional risk.

I hope nobody in the White House or the Senate dies from this; but the Republican party has been criminally irresponsible with COVID-19, and that some of them are now trying to start a war with China in the hopes of confusing their supporters about their own culpability is obscene.

[Mynnion]

Eh. No one else is going to say it but I will. I hope he dies.

I can't stand Trump but I don't want him to die.  I would rather have him lose the election and have to face the fraud and tax evasion charges waiting for him after he leaves office.  Spending the next few years in prison (he can share a cell with Eric, Junior, and Jared) would be much better than a death by Covid which not even Trump deserves..  It will be interesting to see how this will impact the elections.  If he gets really sick I can see his base loosing heart.  Pense does not have the same appeal.

[noel c.]

Donald,

“I hope nobody in the White House or the Senate dies from this; but the Republican party has been criminally irresponsible with COVID-19, and that some of them are now trying to start a war with China in the hopes of confusing their supporters about their own culpability is obscene.”

Chuckle...

[msquared]

Could this out break in the White House and the Republican Senators be a sign from God that he does not want them to confirm a new SC Justice before the election? Has God sent a plague on them?  Maybe God does not want Trump to win the election? I mean why else would he come down with it now?


And if you can not tell, this was said with tongue placed firmly in cheek. The religious Right would never see this as a repudiation of Trump, even if the Angel Gabriel used trumpets to spread it across the nations.

[cherrypoptart]

As far as comportment goes, Pence is basically the diametric opposite of Trump. If power is handed over to Pence I think we'll quickly see the truth of the hatred against Trump. The vast majority of it is just political and it wouldn't matter which Republican was up there. Any one of them would be vilified, pilloried, and laden with hate. A lot of the hate against Trump sounds personal, and people who hate him certainly feel it's personal, but my contention is that deep down it's really just business. If it's Pence or anyone else up there and the knives all come out just the same, just like they did with Reagan, Bush, McCain, and Romney, that'll prove my point.

[yossarian22c]

As far as comportment goes, Pence is basically the diametric opposite of Trump. If power is handed over to Pence I think we'll quickly see the truth of the hatred against Trump. The vast majority of it is just political and it wouldn't matter which Republican was up there. Any one of them would be vilified, pilloried, and laden with hate. A lot of the hate against Trump sounds personal, and people who hate him certainly feel it's personal, but my contention is that deep down it's really just business. If it's Pence or anyone else up there and the knives all come out just the same, just like they did with Reagan, Bush, McCain, and Romney, that'll prove my point.

I disagree. Pence has some quirks around gender roles that will be attacked and I’m opposed to most of the policies he would pursue. But I don’t view him as an embarrassment to the nation or a danger to our democracy.

[cherrypoptart]

Should borders have been secured in response to Covid-19 in March?

Or was it okay to have it basically business as usual with our CDC saying that restricting travel to America was racist and xenophobic and unnecessary to contain the virus while travel even between states was being closely controlled and monitored by governors such as in New York?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vp-pence-ordered-borders-closed-131917300.html

Did Pence do the right thing in closing the borders?

It seems to me we were getting hit with deadly Covid policies from both parties with the Democrats wanting to maintain open borders without travel bans for instance on China and Trump along with his so called health experts early on at least saying don't wear masks.

"We're from the government and we're here to help."

[wmLambert]

In Michigan, the much protested Governor Gretchen Whitmer has been slapped down by the State Supreme Court. The first law she violated was the 1976 law 7-0, the second was the 1946 law 4-3. If she would have asked for voluntary compliance there would have no problem, but she wanted to be a Fuehrer and assume dictatorial powers. She ordered Marijuana stores to stay open, but closed greenhouses selling seed for seasonal planting. She ordered Casinos open, but closed churches. People were not happy.

When I went to Costco earlier, everyone was voluntarily social distancing and wearing masks, just not under duress.

[cherrypoptart]

Costco has a nationwide mando-mask policy. Of course that's a company not a government. Texas has a statewide mando-mask policy still in effect though there was some confusion about it recently. There are some caveats to it but basically masks are required where they should be required.

I don't agree with the voluntary mask policies and we've been over why many times. The masks don't protect the person wearing it. And without eye protection there's even less protection from an asymptomatic maskless superspreader. As we saw in South Korea, it only takes one person to infect thousands.

In my opinion asking for voluntary compliance is useless during a pandemic. I don't even agree with the exceptions made for people who have trouble breathing being allowed to go maskless. Their trouble breathing doesn't do anything to prevent them from spreading the virus. I guess I'm a hardliner when it comes to this so will have to just have a difference of opinion with many conservatives on this one issue. As the saying goes, "Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins." And that's where Covid-19 often first attacks, right in the nose, and more dangerous than a swinging fist too.

I don't know the details on the Michigan court cases but from a quick reading it looks like the problem is she requires legislature cooperation for such orders now and since they are Republicans who disagreed with her she didn't have it. If they had agreed with her then she would have been okay. A higher court may yet rule in her favor. Governors generally have broad powers during pandemics like this, as they should. The Republican legislature may have successful limited hers and that's their prerogative. It would be nice if we could all agree on the same course of action but that doesn't often happen. Just like Democrats won't agree to limit illegal immigration during a pandemic by stopping their sanctuary city and state policies that act as incentives and invitations.

[wmLambert]

It seems that over 1,000 doctors have called the entire Coronovirus event a scam. https://www.iceagenow.info/more-than-1000-doctors-call-covid-10-the-biggest-crime-of-the-century-video/

Looking at Sweden, one can't be too surprised.

In case this video gets taken down (which is likely**), here a just a few quotes from the doctors:

“No scientific basis.”
“It’s just a lie.”
“Covid-19 is not a problem. The real problem is the economy.”
“These masks are bad for health.”
“These masks are not good for the people, they are not protecting from any virus. It’s just ridiculous.” ”
“What’s more serious, of course, is the abuse of our civil rights.”
“Our children are suffering.”
“This is not based on any scientific facts.”
“This is the biggest crime of the century.”

The doctors go on to remind us that this is already the fourth time this century that such a hoax has been attempted, pointing to the anthrax scare, the bird flu scare, the swine flu scare, and now this.

** I say it is likely that this video will be taken down because YouTube has apparently removed all other videos referring to these more than one-thousand doctors worldwide who have spoken out about the manufactured panic.

[yossarian22c]

It seems that over 1,000 doctors have called the entire Coronovirus event a scam. https://www.iceagenow.info/more-than-1000-doctors-call-covid-10-the-biggest-crime-of-the-century-video/

Looking at Sweden, one can't be too surprised.

210,000 dead Americans and 1,000,000+ deaths globally. Pretty elaborate scam. Including 1 in every 2000 Swedes dying to this point.

[yossarian22c]

It seems that over 1,000 doctors have called the entire Coronovirus event a scam. https://www.iceagenow.info/more-than-1000-doctors-call-covid-10-the-biggest-crime-of-the-century-video/

Why didn't anyone tell Trump is was a total scam? They could have saved him 3 days in the hospital and taking experimental medications.

[wmLambert]

It appears that the overall mortality has not increased due to Coronavirus. Approximately 2,839,205 died nationwide in 2018. That number has not been reached and is under projection for all deaths plus Coronavirus for this year. When deaths due to murder, car crashes, and parachute failures are attributed to the Wuhan Flu, just what are we measuring?

[rightleft22]

It appears that the overall mortality has not increased due to Coronavirus. Approximately 2,839,205 died nationwide in 2018. That number has not been reached and is under projection for all deaths plus Coronavirus for this year. When deaths due to murder, car crashes, and parachute failures are attributed to the Wuhan Flu, just what are we measuring?

"When deaths due to murder, car crashes, and parachute failures are attributed to the Wuhan Flu" Fake news

[yossarian22c]

It appears that the overall mortality has not increased due to Coronavirus. Approximately 2,839,205 died nationwide in 2018. That number has not been reached and is under projection for all deaths plus Coronavirus for this year. When deaths due to murder, car crashes, and parachute failures are attributed to the Wuhan Flu, just what are we measuring?

Apparently you're missing real data for this year.

We're running above the 2018 mortality rate. We're at around 2,359,063 with 3 months of data left to come in. Assuming we have 3/4 of the deaths for the year that would put us at around 3.1 million deaths for the year. That would put us around 300,000 excess deaths for the nation above 2018. Also 2018 was a particularly bad flu year with 65,000 flu deaths that year. So you're comparing this to a high baseline to begin with.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

[DonaldD]

The CDC disagrees... Excess deaths associated with COVID-19

It's not even close to not having increased.

[msquared]

But he cherry picked the best facts.

[msquared]

So Trump has called off any more monetary relief for the US until after the election. The day after.  I wonder if that means the same number of day as his health care plan that he promised right after he was elected 4 years ago? 

Or is he holding the country hostage, since if he looses he knows nothing can be done until late Jan and then he can say the recession is Biden's fault.

[msquared]

And some of the stimulus is back on.  Calling back to the days my dad was on steroids for cancer, this is exactly the type of behavior you should expect. The man should not be allowed to make decisions while he is on that drug. It affects your view of the world and judgement (not that Trump had much judgement to start, but at least he was consistent).

[DonaldD]

For about a month now, the 7-day average of new daily cases has consistently increased - almost every day since September 10 - from about 36,000 new daily cases to about 46,000 new daily cases as of 1 week yesterday.

[DonaldD]

New daily cases reported today: 56,652, the highest daily count since August 14.

As well, only 2 states - Alabama and Hawaii - are now showing decreases in infections, and 11 states just recorded record numbers of new daily cases.