Author Topic: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat  (Read 316 times)

TheDrake

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But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« on: October 08, 2020, 02:19:22 PM »
Six men charged in alleged plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer

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Six men are under arrest for "conspiring to kidnap" Michigan's Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer, from her vacation home before the November election, federal authorities said Thursday.

The arrests grew out of an FBI investigation begun in March into militia groups' discussing the "violent overthrow" of certain government and law enforcement officials, and each of the men faces up to life in prison if convicted of the federal charges, authorities said.

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"The individuals in custody are suspected to have attempted to identify the home addresses of law enforcement officers in order to target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a civil war, and engaged in planning and training for an operation to attack the capitol building of Michigan and to kidnap government officials, including the governor of Michigan," Nessel said in a news release.

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For months, Whitmer has drawn the ire of militia groups and others opposed to her restrictions aimed at curbing the spread of the coronavirus.

Armed protesters took to the streets of Lansing, the state capital, during the early days of Whitmer’s coronavirus lockdown orders. And President Donald Trump famously tweeted "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" in April.

DonaldD

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2020, 05:14:24 PM »
They are now up to 13 people charged and counting... thanks Obama

Seriati

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2020, 05:23:36 PM »
Odd Subject line.  Did you think somehow Antifa was a personal threat to Whitmer?  Or are you just trying to pretend that a group that specializes in intimidating and terrorizing citizens without power and who can not effectively fight back is less of a threat to our country than a group of morons trying to engage in a political assassination?

In the real world, millions have been directly or indirectly impacted by Antifa, and zero by these idiots.

Wayward Son

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2020, 05:33:48 PM »
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Or are you just trying to pretend that a group that specializes in intimidating and terrorizing citizens without power and who can not effectively fight back is less of a threat to our country than a group of morons trying to engage in a political assassination?

And are you trying to pretend that conspiring political assassinations is not intimidating?  That guys marching with shields and clubs is not intimidating?  That standing in front of government buildings brandishing assault rifles is not intimidating?  That the people murdered each year by right-wing morons is somehow not intimidating??

Well, you're doing a poor job of it, let me tell you. :)

Seriati

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2020, 05:45:31 PM »
It's funny, cause antifa makes threats all the time, they ship shields, clubs and other weapons in Uhaul trucks apparently, they burn down government buildings, and they have been linked to all manner of felonies.  Yet somehow you think you've made an argument.

Can you point me to the city that is being looted by white nationalists?  Can you point me to the place where they've been rioting for months or even days?  Can you identify anywhere that they have committed some crime in that context?

No, you can probably just link to the old debunked hate crimes report that over-ascribes the actions of a couple specific criminal skin head gangs and ignores 95% of racially motivated violence because they can't "prove" a connection.

Long and short, your post is propaganda.  Antifa is real.  The threat is real.  Antifa has been involved in far more crime and intimidation than white nationalists.  Pretending that people who hate on Whitmer, who is a LITERAL autocratic dictator (ie. she IS a fascist but somehow antifa ignores that), because of her illegal assumption of plenary authority is symptomatic of a larger threat is delusional.  Whitmer is a dictator.

DonaldD

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2020, 06:05:49 PM »
Easy there wmLambert... It sounds like you want Whitmer overthrown, almost...

TheDrake

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2020, 06:26:47 PM »
I think there's a big difference between people with rocks and roman candles, versus the threat posed by people with automatic weapons and explosive devices. That's the point. The militia groups are armed to the teeth, and yes, most of them haven't opened fire into a crowd at this point. When it comes to government buildings, who has taken more lives, Timothy McVeigh or all of Antifa combined.

I'm not saying Antifa should be ignored, and I'm not saying they are not a threat. But who is the greater threat?

I'm glad these guys were caught in time.

If Whitmer exceeds her power, that's what the courts are for. Lots of people have challenged government during this period. Ultimately, she can also be impeached. Unless you think making people wear masks and shutting down businesses to stop the spread of disease in an emergency warrants armed rebellion and/or assassination.

Seriati

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2020, 07:12:05 PM »
I think there's a big difference between people with rocks and roman candles, versus the threat posed by people with automatic weapons and explosive devices. That's the point.

There is a big difference.  The former is a massive group of Democratic partisans that are burning, looting and intimidating their political opponents, who've not only expressed that its okay to use force to stop protected political speech they don't want to hear but have acted on those ambitions.  It's a group that is routinely protected by the leftist media (who pretends they aren't real), by DNC politicians (who deny they are real, contrast that with Whitmer's statements today that these crazies are Trump's fault because he refuses to condemn them and those words have consequences.  I mean honestly, if you can't recognize that bit of open illogic, you're insanely partisan), and by DNC county and state level prosecutors and attorney generals (who have guaranteed there are no legal consequences for any of these acts of terrorism and not even 24 hours of holding them in jail).

The other is largely a figment of your delusion.  Yep six crazies were caught.  Six crazies who won't be bailed out of jail by Trump campaign staffers (unlike the Biden campaign's relationship with antifa brown shirts).  Six crazies who won't be excused and protected by the right.  Yet six crazies the DNC media is going to pretend prove an existential threat to everyone so that they can blame the Republicans and continue to lie about what is really occurring.

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The militia groups are armed to the teeth, and yes, most of them haven't opened fire into a crowd at this point.

I think the word you're looking for is "none" of whom have opened fire into a crowd.  Meanwhile, antifa's have routinely attacked peaceful protestors and even journalists they don't like.  Heck in one case they even planned and executed an ambush attempted murder of a journalist.  Just to avoid confusion that's a literal assasination attempt to try to stop a message they don't like.

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When it comes to government buildings, who has taken more lives, Timothy McVeigh or all of Antifa combined.

I'm not saying Antifa should be ignored, and I'm not saying they are not a threat. But who is the greater threat?

Between Antifa and Timothy McVeigh?  Antifa (McVeigh died 20 years ago).  Between Antifa and white nationalists?  Antifa.

I mean you're correct that Timothy McVeigh was able to carry out a terrorist attack, a mass killing for a vague position.  There's nothing vague about Antifa, and their politics leads to assasinations, to fire bombings, to destroying their opponents, and if they get power to pogroms, forced reeducation camps, state sanctioned robbery and even disappearrences.  If you want to talk big pictures, communism and the new ideals of the left have killed more people than virtually any other philosophy. 

But hey I'm sure the history of giving power to groups that endorse violence to settle peaceful political agreements will totally work out differently this time, cause you know "good guys."

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I'm glad these guys were caught in time.

Everyone is.  But you're not outraged that the terrrorists with whom you agree politically are released, protected and emboldened, and that's where we differ.

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If Whitmer exceeds her power, that's what the courts are for.

Whitmer exceeded her power.  That's just a fact.  Both at the state and federal level.  Just this week the courts have started declaring it so.  The fact that you think the "remedy" for an actual dictator wielding arbitrary authority is to wait and hope that the "courts" will stop her is beyond crazy.

Whitmer was required to get legislative authority for her actions.  She refused.  If this were Trump you'd be raging about it.   Not even a question.  You'd be raging about it being the worst crime in history.  It's not Trump, is a Democratic governor from Michigan who declared the unilateral authority to issue laws like a king and you have not said a word.  You haven't protested, in fact you maligned protesters that brought attention to it as dangerous or deranged.

Whitmer should be removed from office for her violations of the rights of US citizens.  Are you educated enough on her actions to realize it or defend it?  Or is this only about team colors?  What consistent principle allows you to evaluate Trump's actions and Whitmer's actions and not come to the conclusion that Whitmer is a far greater threat to Democracy?

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Lots of people have challenged government during this period. Ultimately, she can also be impeached. Unless you think making people wear masks and shutting down businesses to stop the spread of disease in an emergency warrants armed rebellion and/or assassination.

That's like saying that all Trump was trying to do was to enforce our immigration laws.

Whitmer issued completely arbitrary dictats, with the force of law.  She corruptly excused her allies and punished her enemies.  Remember when you wanted Trump impeached where you couldn't even find evidence he did something?  Yet here there are volumes and have you leveled any criticism?  If you care about abuse of power, about corruption, about a threat to Democracy, as many of you have claimed in your criticisms of Trump, where is your harsh condemnation now?

No, this thread is a "jump in at the end of the game" ploy.  Pretend like an aberration is everything, and then put out a headline to whitewash an actual terrorist movement.

It's propaganda.

TheDrake

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2020, 09:10:15 PM »
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Everyone is.  But you're not outraged that the terrrorists with whom you agree politically are released, protected and emboldened, and that's where we differ.

I don't agree with them politically, when you're talking about the actual radicals like the ones posting on itsgoingdown about revolution and overthrowing the capitalist system. Am I upset when somebody caught up in the mix, about whom nothing can actually be proven, then get released? Absolutely not. I'm not aware of any efforts to protect the individuals about whom anything can be proven according to the law.

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Whitmer was required to get legislative authority for her actions.  She refused.  If this were Trump you'd be raging about it.   Not even a question.  You'd be raging about it being the worst crime in history.  It's not Trump, is a Democratic governor from Michigan who declared the unilateral authority to issue laws like a king and you have not said a word.  You haven't protested, in fact you maligned protesters that brought attention to it as dangerous or deranged.

How many Presidents have exceeded their constitutional authority and had executive orders overturned or suspended? I think pretty much every one of them, and they get away with a lot more.

Militia groups are out there stockpiling big boy weapons, not "cans of tuna". They're running defacto terrorist training camps, complete with tactical exercises. They're openly talking about needing to take up arms and overthrow the "oppressors", aka the duly elected government.

I believe Abbot exceeded his authority in the opposite direction, overruling the mayors of Austin, Houston, and Dallas. By decree, he's making law commanding mayors not to enforce a city ordinance. I'm not foaming at the mouth over it.

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Whitmer exceeded her power.  That's just a fact.  Both at the state and federal level.  Just this week the courts have started declaring it so.  The fact that you think the "remedy" for an actual dictator wielding arbitrary authority is to wait and hope that the "courts" will stop her is beyond crazy.

So its crazy to think that the courts will stop her, in the same paragraph where you say they are stopping her? What, do you think she's going to defy the court orders, disband them and the legislature?

I'll admit, I don't know enough about the situation to weigh in on whether I think Whitmer should be impeached, recalled, censured, or simply voted out of office. I know that she was attempting to keep the people who elected her alive (you do remember she was elected by a majority of people in Michigan, right?). Also, The first-term Democratic governor was viewed favorably by 51% of respondents while 41% said they viewed her unfavorably. Hard to find a dictator with a majority who approve of them.

wmLambert

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2020, 09:25:53 PM »
What's really interesting is that the Whitmer kidnap militia leader, Brandon Caserta, posted a video on YouTube with an AntiFa flag hanging from his wall behind him. Kinda funny. He is not a Republican, he is an anarchist.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1314267058339819520

wmLambert

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2020, 10:07:42 PM »
...I don't know enough about the situation to weigh in on whether I think Whitmer should be impeached, recalled, censured, or simply voted out of office.

She also blamed Trump for these anarchists trying to kidnap her, when it was his Justice Department that caught them.

DonaldD

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2020, 10:18:28 PM »
What's really interesting is that the Whitmer kidnap militia leader, Brandon Caserta, posted a video on YouTube with an AntiFa flag hanging from his wall behind him. Kinda funny. He is not a Republican, he is an anarchist.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1314267058339819520
That was an anarchy flag, not Antifa, but thanks for playing.  He is also a Qanon follower, and, in case there was ambiguity, according to your own link he is a Kyle Rittenhouse fan.  That's some serious cognitive dissonance there...

yossarian22c

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2020, 09:06:49 AM »
In the real world, millions have been directly or indirectly impacted by Antifa, and zero by these idiots.

Whitmore was impacted by these idiots. The associate the stress of a real kidnapping/murder plot against you has an impact.

Other than people watching fox news and being told about the great evil Antifa I have no idea how you get millions have been impacted by Antifa.

TheDrake

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2020, 10:00:32 AM »
...I don't know enough about the situation to weigh in on whether I think Whitmer should be impeached, recalled, censured, or simply voted out of office.

She also blamed Trump for these anarchists trying to kidnap her, when it was his Justice Department that caught them.

Well, let's see. What was it he said? LIBERATE MICHIGAN! Perhaps you can see how that might encourage people to take it upon themselves to remove the tyrant?

As for the FBI, I thought you said they were the deep state and hated Trump, spied on him, plotted a coup....

wmLambert

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2020, 11:27:00 AM »
What's really interesting is that the Whitmer kidnap militia leader, Brandon Caserta, posted a video on YouTube with an AntiFa flag hanging from his wall behind him. Kinda funny. He is not a Republican, he is an anarchist.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1314267058339819520
That was an anarchy flag, not Antifa, but thanks for playing.  He is also a Qanon follower, and, in case there was ambiguity, according to your own link he is a Kyle Rittenhouse fan.  That's some serious cognitive dissonance there...

You're right. The AntiFa flag has a stylized black flag over a red flag. That Anarchist symbol is just what they wear on all their T-shirts. The thirteen arrested in the Whitmer kidnap plot are a bunch of anti-government anarchists from all over three states, and certainly not a local group. They use the "Wolverine Watchmen" as their name, but are not all from Michigan. What links them is their anti-government postings.

JoshuaD

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2020, 02:43:51 PM »
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But yeah, Antifa is the real threat

I know it's fun to play hot-potato and "your idiots are more dangerous than my idiots", but we can all agree that there can be more than one "real threat", right?

TheDrake

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Re: But yeah, Antifa is the real threat
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2020, 03:35:29 PM »
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But yeah, Antifa is the real threat

I know it's fun to play hot-potato and "your idiots are more dangerous than my idiots", but we can all agree that there can be more than one "real threat", right?

You're not wrong, they are both threats. And its good not to be dismissive of either.