Author Topic: coronavirus  (Read 123790 times)

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2900 on: April 06, 2021, 02:52:35 PM »
That must be why Britain has a red list travel ban, because it just doesn't matter.



https://www.gov.uk/guidance/transport-measures-to-protect-the-uk-from-variant-strains-of-covid-19

Red list travel ban countries
If you have been in or through any of the countries listed below in the previous 10 days, you will be refused entry to the UK.

If you are a British or Irish National, or you have residence rights in the UK, you will be able to enter. You must quarantine in a government approved hotel for 10 days.

Angola
Argentina
Bangladesh (will be added to the list 4am Friday 9 April)
Bolivia
Botswana
Brazil
Burundi
Cape Verde
Chile
Colombia
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Ecuador
Eswatini
Ethiopia
French Guiana
Guyana
Kenya (will be added to the list 4am Friday 9 April)
Lesotho
Malawi
Mozambique
Namibia
Oman
Pakistan (will be added to the list 4am Friday 9 April)
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines (will be added to the list 4am Friday 9 April)
Qatar
Rwanda
Seychelles
Somalia
South Africa
Suriname
Tanzania
United Arab Emirates (UAE)
Uruguay
Venezuela
Zambia
Zimbabwe
Updates to the list
Any upcoming updates to list and updates that happened within the last 10 days.

Countries added to the list
Bangladesh, Kenya, Pakistan and Philippines will be added to the list 4am Friday 9 April.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2901 on: April 06, 2021, 02:57:58 PM »
That's funny, I don't see Mexico there. That's the country we are talking about, right? I am a little surprised that the UK isn't banning US travel, since we have a mass amount of cases. France isn't there either, despite dropping into yet another lockdown with high case loads. I wonder if they are only blocking travel from *censored*hole countries?

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2902 on: April 06, 2021, 04:31:51 PM »
"That's funny, I don't see Mexico there. That's the country we are talking about, right?"

Because all illegals are Mexican? That's racist and untrue.

The fact is people, and by that I mean mostly Democrats, get so hung up on not wanting to be racist that they let public safety take a back seat when it's inconvenient for their politics.

The pandemic is here and it's real and the science says that travel restrictions are one of the necessary tools to fight it. Vital. Indispensable. Joe Biden isn't listening to the science when it isn't politically convenient for him.

And by the way, even Joe is telling migrants not to come. Well, with his mouth he is saying that though with his actions he's saying something else. So does that make Joe Biden's mouth racist that he is saying pretty much exactly what I am, that this is not the time for migrants to be crossing our border en masse? It seems like whether something is racist or not depends on who says it. If conservatives say the same thing Joe Biden says then it's racist when the conservative says it but it's fine when Joe Biden says it. It's funny how that works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfkCHLj5cfU

Biden on Border Crisis
President's Message to Migrants: "Don't Come"

I want to see Biden called a racist for saying that the same way Trump would be. Hooray for double standards.

rightleft22

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2903 on: April 06, 2021, 05:09:53 PM »
Quote
The fact is people, and by that I mean mostly Democrats, get so hung up on not wanting to be racist that they let public safety take a back seat when it's inconvenient for their politics.

Are you arguing that its ok to be racist if its good for public safety? Seems I heard that argument before.... Usually just before a
Ones values, character, and morals should never take precedence over inconvenience, that's just crazy talk.  Begs the questions if they really are values.. ahh that question is inconvenient. Thank goodness thought I was in trouble.

Does Biden or Trump saying 'Don't come' make them racist. No
Did Trump statements go further then only saying don't come... yes. Could some of those statements be considered racist? I would say yes for what my opinion is worth

Keep dancing for your master

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2904 on: April 06, 2021, 05:31:49 PM »
Quote
The fact is people, and by that I mean mostly Democrats, get so hung up on not wanting to be racist that they let public safety take a back seat when it's inconvenient for their politics.

Are you arguing that its ok to be racist if its good for public safety?

It seems to me his point was relatively clear. He's saying that any attempt to discuss Mexicans as a problem is countered with "racist!", thereby making it impossible to discuss the topic objectively. Assuming this is what he meant, there was a parallel situation early in Trump's term regarding the 'Muslim ban.' He, too, was accused of being racist purely on principle, even though (in theory) it was a question of national security.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2905 on: April 06, 2021, 06:06:45 PM »
#1 we are talking about people coming from Mexico. That's our border. I doubt Guatemalans are getting to that border under 10 days. They don't have to be Mexicans, travel restrictions are based on the countries you passed through or were last in, not where you were born.

#2 Biden is still deporting adults. He's just not willing to throw children back over the wall they were just dropped from.

#3 Risking some small increase in transmission in order to save the lives of people who cross the border against protocol is a human win. It would be like saying, we'd better not send paramedics to save lives because it might increase the spread of the virus.

#4 Admit this is just an excuse for you, cherry. If Biden proposed building massive infrastructure allowing for 10 day quarantine of all migrants with 6 ft separation, and immediate inoculations with J&J vaccine, you'll just move on to some other excuse.

#5 It absolutely is racist to base border restrictions on anything other than the infection rates within the country of origin if your goal is to stop the spread. So yeah, the UK allowing France and the US is racist compared to other countries that are on the list.

France has 59/100k. Poland 68/100k. I thought the whole point of Brexit was to restrict travel from the EU? UAE? They sit at 22/100k. South Africa? 2/100k.

You might want to find excuses for that, like "what about the testing rates though?" UAE has nearly the highest rate of testing in the world. 3.9M/1M pop. 4x that of France.

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2906 on: April 06, 2021, 08:09:22 PM »
#5 It absolutely is racist to base border restrictions on anything other than the infection rates within the country of origin if your goal is to stop the spread. So yeah, the UK allowing France and the US is racist compared to other countries that are on the list.

I'm going to nit-pick this one. Just because a country has low infection rates doesn't mean the people traveling from there aren't infected. In fact, travelers would seem to be the kind of people who are infected more than most specifically because they are traveling instead of practicing real social distancing because you can't travel on a plane and practice social distancing at the same time. Even if a country has a low infection rate how much is that going to matter when the person gets infected while traveling on the way to their final destination? They will test negative when they leave, pick up the virus en route, test negative again when they arrive, and then spread it around if they don't have a ten day or so quarantine first.

That's not disagreeing with the idea completely though about some nations being granted favored status despite their higher infection rates but my point is that ALL travel is dangerous and non-essential travel is a luxury that is spreading the virus all over the place. The more travel allowed FROM ANYWHERE, the more dangerous it is to everyone. That's what started the whole ball rolling in the first place and it's what's going to finish us too if we don't wise up and fast. Unless you have some sort of travel bubble between two uninfected countries or something, but that requires serious travel restrictions on everyone else to get to that sweet spot.

Just like with Fauci early on with the masks, people just don't want to admit the truth of it because it's going to make them uncomfortable and take them out of their safe space. New Zealand and Australia understand all of this which is why they have been so successful where we have failed miserably.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/04/06/984639171/new-zealand-australia-to-create-travel-bubble-resume-quarantine-free-travel

"Australia and New Zealand have controlled the COVID-19 outbreak better than many other developed nations. Both countries closed their international borders to noncitizens early in the pandemic, which helped them to contain the virus's spread."

Saying that travel restrictions are useless sounds a lot like how we were told not to buy and wear masks because they won't help the general public and instead of that just wash your hands a lot. Look at Australia and New Zealand and then make the case for how travel restrictions don't help.

Just like with masks, it's just common sense. How is the virus spreading? People are spreading it, obviously. This isn't rocket science here.

rightleft22

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2907 on: April 07, 2021, 09:45:16 AM »
Quote
The fact is people, and by that I mean mostly Democrats, get so hung up on not wanting to be racist that they let public safety take a back seat when it's inconvenient for their politics.

Are you arguing that its ok to be racist if its good for public safety?

It seems to me his point was relatively clear. He's saying that any attempt to discuss Mexicans as a problem is countered with "racist!", thereby making it impossible to discuss the topic objectively. Assuming this is what he meant, there was a parallel situation early in Trump's term regarding the 'Muslim ban.' He, too, was accused of being racist purely on principle, even though (in theory) it was a question of national security.

How we say things matter.

Trumps and Biden's communication style are very different making any 'parallel situation' difficult to access as being parallel. Perhaps you can pick and chose when to take Trumps statements seriously and when not to and give him the benefit of the doubt.  Trump has been pretty consistent in his use of language as it concerns issues that are often associated rightly or wrongly to race over the last 6 years when he decided to become a politician.  That only matters though if one holds the view that words and values matter.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2908 on: April 07, 2021, 11:31:56 AM »
Quote
Just like with Fauci early on with the masks, people just don't want to admit the truth of it because it's going to make them uncomfortable and take them out of their safe space. New Zealand and Australia understand all of this which is why they have been so successful where we have failed miserably.

I'm okay with that, but let's be clear that those countries have done a lot of other things right also.

Brisbane locked down for three days when they had SEVEN cases in March of this year. We're having spring break parties and all the rest with hundreds of deaths per day.

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2909 on: April 07, 2021, 12:07:40 PM »
How we say things matter.

Trumps and Biden's communication style are very different making any 'parallel situation' difficult to access as being parallel. Perhaps you can pick and chose when to take Trumps statements seriously and when not to and give him the benefit of the doubt.  Trump has been pretty consistent in his use of language as it concerns issues that are often associated rightly or wrongly to race over the last 6 years when he decided to become a politician.  That only matters though if one holds the view that words and values matter.

You can say this all you like, but Trump was consistent to a fault from day one is how he speaks. This is just a reiteration of the same complaint people made from the primaries. At a certain point you can't keep saying the same thing about his speaking style like it's a new topical objection. It's boring already. If people could get over themselves and just take him for what he is (for better or worse) the anxiety level would go down tenfold.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2910 on: April 07, 2021, 01:39:34 PM »
How we say things matter.

Trumps and Biden's communication style are very different making any 'parallel situation' difficult to access as being parallel. Perhaps you can pick and chose when to take Trumps statements seriously and when not to and give him the benefit of the doubt.  Trump has been pretty consistent in his use of language as it concerns issues that are often associated rightly or wrongly to race over the last 6 years when he decided to become a politician.  That only matters though if one holds the view that words and values matter.

You can say this all you like, but Trump was consistent to a fault from day one is how he speaks. This is just a reiteration of the same complaint people made from the primaries. At a certain point you can't keep saying the same thing about his speaking style like it's a new topical objection. It's boring already. If people could get over themselves and just take him for what he is (for better or worse) the anxiety level would go down tenfold.

Oh, I do take him for what he is. I take his words for what they are, not invent excuses like "it's just his speaking style" or "he was joking". If there's tension, it is because others refuse to admit that he's exactly how he sounds.

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2911 on: April 07, 2021, 01:46:25 PM »
Oh, I do take him for what he is. I take his words for what they are, not invent excuses like "it's just his speaking style" or "he was joking". If there's tension, it is because others refuse to admit that he's exactly how he sounds.

I think you are misreading the context of my post. I was saying that cherry's post was not too difficult to understand, and that it's a complaint that has other instances where it might apply. rightleft then mentioned how it's not about the proposed policies themselves, but about *how* Trump said them. That is when I mentioned about how the objections about how Trump's speech pattern can only go so far before you're just ignoring the actual policies and going after him each time. I called that boring; that's my opinion. No one's talking about making excuses for anything. cherry was specifically addressing the issue of how certain policy proposals get drowned in off-topic objections. Whether or not I agree with that proposition, I don't think his post was actually unclear, which was the claim being made.

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2912 on: April 07, 2021, 01:59:39 PM »
I'm just saying his policy doesn't get "drowned out" by irrelevance. His policy is exactly as he said:

“Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.”

That's not a speaking style, it is very plain language that describes exactly what his policy is. There shouldn't be any reason to examine the policy further, and if we did, we'd come to the exact same conclusion absent his speaking style. It is just a lot more convenient to accept his description of his own policy.

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2913 on: April 07, 2021, 02:02:06 PM »
That's not a speaking style, it is very plain language that describes exactly what his policy is. There shouldn't be any reason to examine the policy further, and if we did, we'd come to the exact same conclusion absent his speaking style. It is just a lot more convenient to accept his description of his own policy.

Then the point would be to ask whether in fact that will impact national security or not, rather than to kneejerk to "racism!" without consideration for the stated purpose of the ban. Now maybe it was just racist, but that requires some parsing. cherry was just saying that sometimes you can't even have the discussion for fear of the backlash. All I was saying is that cherry's post was clear. That's all! We can debate the point he raised ourselves, but that's not what I got in the ring to do in this instance.

yossarian22c

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2914 on: April 07, 2021, 03:11:32 PM »
And B117 is now the dominant strain in the US. It is more transmissible and more virulent. And unlike the original variant it seems to spread relatively easily among children as well. I fear our rush to open schools up is going to bite us in the ass. We should have just ridden out the school year, gotten the virus under control with vaccinations and other measures over the summer and hope to have a good fall. Now I fear we're going have a lot of sick kids over the next couple months and increased community spread as too many states have rushed to reopen bars, restaurants, other indoor activities, and mass events. The really tragic thing is with another two months of good social behavior we could have seen vaccination rates really put a large dent into the spread of the disease. Now we're going to give it a foothold in the child population that can't be vaccinated yet to potentially mutate into a new variant that can better evade the vaccines.

edgmatt

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2915 on: April 11, 2021, 12:50:02 PM »
Only Vaccincated persons can board evacuation vessels to leave island after volcanic eruption.

From the article (I'm not 100% sure anyone here can access the link):

"After a massive 6 mile-high eruption of ashes from the Soufriere volcano frightened the residents of Saint Vincent, Prime Minister Ralph Gonsalves said that only those who have been vaccinated for the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus could board the cruise ships evacuating people off the island.

Rumbling noises emanated from the volcano, with ash coating rooftops, cars, and roads in Kingstown, the capital of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. Videos from Saint Vincent showed a ghost-like landscape.

On Friday, CruiseRadio.net reported that two cruise ships had arrived at the small island to rescue its residents, adding that three more were on the way.

St. Lucia, Grenada, Antigua, and Barbados accepted taking in evacuees from the disaster area, with the condition that evacuees are fully vaccinated against the CCP Virus, which causes the disease COVID-19."


Seems utterly ridiculous to me to not transport people away from a volcanic eruption because they haven't been vaccinated against Covid.  It also seems morally reprehensible. 

Fenring

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2916 on: April 11, 2021, 01:09:23 PM »
Seems utterly ridiculous to me to not transport people away from a volcanic eruption because they haven't been vaccinated against Covid.  It also seems morally reprehensible. 

I heard about that. Apparently it's not a question of the governments, but about the regulations about certain cruise lines. Apparently some of them require vaccinations for embarkments, but one line I heard of in the area doesn't. It does seem hard to manage a pandemic situation when another disaster is co-incident.

By the way, fun point of interest, I am currently sitting under the raining volcanic ash cloud you're referring to. Windows are shut, ash accumulating around the house. I'm in Barbados right now. The eruptions continue...

edgmatt

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2917 on: April 11, 2021, 01:35:41 PM »
It doesn't seem hard to me:  get em off the island (if they want to go).  Suspend the rules in order to save them.

If the same ship came across a life boat with some people on it in the middle of the ocean, would they not take them on board if they weren't vaccinated?

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2918 on: April 13, 2021, 11:52:32 PM »
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/could-a-cup-of-yogurt-cure-your-case-of-covid-19-664976

“We knew that we had found these molecules in yogurt with anti-inflammatory properties,” he said. “So, when COVID started, we said, Let’s see if these molecules can help against cytokine storms.”

It seems like something that for most people wouldn't do any harm even if you don't wouldn't want to count on it to save you. Another story had tumeric as beneficial in helping against Covid too. That story had it as a tea but I put it in my oatmeal. I already ate yogurt too. There are probably quite a few things most people could do with their diets to help fight off Covid and it would be interesting to see if those couldn't be a factor in the disparity of responses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7361299/


yossarian22c

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2919 on: April 14, 2021, 11:55:06 AM »
It seems like something that for most people wouldn't do any harm even if you don't wouldn't want to count on it to save you. Another story had tumeric as beneficial in helping against Covid too. That story had it as a tea but I put it in my oatmeal. I already ate yogurt too. There are probably quite a few things most people could do with their diets to help fight off Covid and it would be interesting to see if those couldn't be a factor in the disparity of responses.

There is probably a lot people could do with diet that would impact it but maybe not after catching it. Obesity and diabetes are the highest risk factors after age. It is going to be really hard to disambiguate any population level studies based on diet. If it was just a matter of getting anti-inflammatory compounds in your body then ibuprofen would be considered an effective treatment (and not just of symptoms). 

TheDrake

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2920 on: April 14, 2021, 12:52:48 PM »
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/could-a-cup-of-yogurt-cure-your-case-of-covid-19-664976

“We knew that we had found these molecules in yogurt with anti-inflammatory properties,” he said. “So, when COVID started, we said, Let’s see if these molecules can help against cytokine storms.”

It seems like something that for most people wouldn't do any harm even if you don't wouldn't want to count on it to save you. Another story had tumeric as beneficial in helping against Covid too. That story had it as a tea but I put it in my oatmeal. I already ate yogurt too. There are probably quite a few things most people could do with their diets to help fight off Covid and it would be interesting to see if those couldn't be a factor in the disparity of responses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7361299/

Gotta be real careful about stuff like that.

Quote
Some of the plants found in food supplements can weaken the body’s natural defences, primarily by interfering with the inflammatory defence mechanisms used to fight infection and, in particular, COVID-19. The plants concerned by the ANSES opinion include willow, meadowsweet, harpagophytum, turmeric, echinacea, birch, poplar and liquorice.

msquared

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2921 on: April 15, 2021, 03:10:29 PM »
So it sounds like soon we will have more supply than demand for vaccines, as those who are hesitant to get the shots become a larger and larger proportion of the unvaccinated population.

So when the rate of vaccinated people starts to drop, will the Republicans say Biden was lying when he said he wanted everyone one vaccinated by a certain date? When the number of cases continue at a steady pace will they say it is obvious the vaccines do not work since people are still getting sick?

I mean conservative brain Tucker Carlson does not understand why people who have been vaccinated can not go back to life as normal.  Do the vaccines not work?

rightleft22

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2922 on: April 15, 2021, 05:38:10 PM »
Tucker Carlson deliberately fails to understands quite allot..  including the intent of Socratic method.
He has a great understanding of how to manipulate his audience and propagate propaganda for his tribe and personal gain. Actuality I don't think he cares much for his tribe just personal gain. As his actions are to intentionally sow doubt and discord he qualifies as 'evil' in my book.
History will not be kind to him but who cares about history. 

cherrypoptart

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2923 on: April 17, 2021, 07:39:52 AM »
https://news.yahoo.com/senators-biden-waive-vaccine-intellectual-100049446.html

"WASHINGTON (AP) — Ten liberal senators are urging President Joe Biden to back India and South Africa’s appeal to the World Trade Organization to temporarily relax intellectual property rules so coronavirus vaccines can be manufactured by nations that are struggling to inoculate their populations.

The lawmakers, in a letter delivered to the White House on Thursday evening, wrote that Biden should “prioritize people over pharmaceutical company profits” and support the temporary waiver of the rules. A waiver could pave the way for generic or other manufacturers to make more vaccines."

I agree with doing this. I think I saw a story early in the pandemic about China using various methods including hacking to try to steal some of the secrets to making Covid vaccines and I thought well shouldn't information about how to make Covid vaccines be made available to all countries anyway to help get the pandemic under control?

If they are worried about money, whatever big pharma is going to lose will be more than made up for by ending the pandemic earlier and of course for the lives saved what price can you put on that? Big pharma should be well compensated for their research and efforts whether that be with American tax dollars or deals with some of these countries who can afford it to pay some sort of licensing fees or some other arrangement but in any case money shouldn't be a barrier to letting other countries make Covid vaccines and others as well.

This part couldn't be more true: “Simply put, we must make vaccines, testing, and treatments accessible everywhere if we are going to crush the virus anywhere..." especially when we continue to allow international travel the way we do.

oldbrian

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2924 on: April 19, 2021, 01:27:21 PM »
Didn't we already pay for this?  Wasn't that part of Operation... um...whatever last summer.  I am drawing a blank on the name.  We promised the companies a guaranteed profit in order to spur research and all that?

msquared

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Re: coronavirus
« Reply #2925 on: April 19, 2021, 01:41:29 PM »
If Trump was involved then it would have been only for US production since that is the only population he cared about.