Author Topic: The Trump Papers  (Read 8241 times)

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #200 on: October 10, 2022, 07:32:25 AM »
Trump goes off the deep end about past Presidents and their papers.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-said-former-president-george-024143166.html

Claims Obama took 33 million pages and stored them in a furniture store. Of course that is a lie and the NARA has shown it is a lie.

Claims Bush I took millions of pages and stored them in a old Chinese restaurant mixed with a bowling alley. Asks why Bush is not being prosecuted (Bush died 4 years ago).

He continues to lie about everything in public and when asked to back it up in court he's got nothing.

Please, go ahead and defend these statements.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #201 on: October 10, 2022, 03:53:51 PM »
Well Trump's lawyers are each saying "the other guy lied" about having turned over all of the documents earlier this year.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/trump-lawyers-turning-other-over-190235199.html

Not that Trump cares.  I am fairly sure he thinks lawyers jobs are to lie for him and take the bullet.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #202 on: October 11, 2022, 02:06:35 PM »
NARA has replied to Trumps claim about both Bush Presidents followed the rules on their documents.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/national-archives-calls-trump-lying-162721132.html

See any pattern here?  Trump claims others were worse than him, but the facts say a completely different story.

And another example of Trump lying. But we know things like character do not matter to the MAGA crowd.

wmLambert

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #203 on: October 12, 2022, 09:36:18 AM »
NARA has replied to Trumps claim about both Bush Presidents followed the rules on their documents.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/national-archives-calls-trump-lying-162721132.html

See any pattern here?  Trump claims others were worse than him, but the facts say a completely different story.

And another example of Trump lying. But we know things like character do not matter to the MAGA crowd.

You should read your own Yahoo links. Obama dd take those 30 million documents to Chicago. The pristine point the article glossed over, was who decided those documents were unclassified. Same thing with the others. What the National Archives do with their own Classified documents is a separate issue, neh? BTW, George W. Bush did not die in 2017 - that was his father.

How can yos post such nonsense and call Trump the liar when Biden is the proven liar?

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #204 on: October 12, 2022, 09:40:32 AM »
He did not take them. They were sent, after the proper procedures were followed and they were stored in a secure government facility.

What does this have to do with Biden? This is Trump lying again. 

Again, if Trump had gone through the process of requesting his documents, he would not be in any trouble. But he just took then, then denied he had them, and then stonewalled when it was shown he had them.

He thinks they are "HIS" documents. He is still saying that in public. They are not his documents. The belong to the Government.

jc44

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #205 on: October 12, 2022, 11:15:01 AM »
BTW, George W. Bush did not die in 2017 - that was his father.
True but it was George W. Bush's father George H.W. Bush that Trump was talking about and, as you say, he is the one that is dead.

Wayward Son

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #206 on: October 12, 2022, 01:00:02 PM »
Quote
The pristine point the article glossed over, was who decided those documents were unclassified. Same thing with the others. What the National Archives do with their own Classified documents is a separate issue, neh?

Wait, wait, wait.  Are you saying that different copies of the same document can have different classification statuses?  That one copy (that Donald J. Trump has) can be completely declassified, and you could post it on a telephone pole if you want, but another (held by the National Archives, for instance) could land you in jail for life if you took it out of the special room, even by accident?  ???

If you are, you really, really need to read up on our classification system and especially the purpose of the system.  Because if that is what you are saying, you are spouting complete and utter nonsense.  ;D

wmLambert

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #207 on: October 12, 2022, 05:42:54 PM »
Quote
The pristine point the article glossed over, was who decided those documents were unclassified. Same thing with the others. What the National Archives do with their own Classified documents is a separate issue, neh?

Wait, wait, wait.  Are you saying that different copies of the same document can have different classification statuses?  That one copy (that Donald J. Trump has) can be completely declassified, and you could post it on a telephone pole if you want, but another (held by the National Archives, for instance) could land you in jail for life if you took it out of the special room, even by accident?  ???

If you are, you really, really need to read up on our classification system and especially the purpose of the system.  Because if that is what you are saying, you are spouting complete and utter nonsense.  ;D

That is the reason Trump instructed his staff to take care of the classification process. As President, he has full authority to declassify documents. The Archives people should be apprised that documents have been declassified.

Tom

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #208 on: October 12, 2022, 05:45:17 PM »
I'm pretty sure everyone is waiting with bated breath for Trump's people to officially appraise the nation of which documents, if any, were declassified while he was in office.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #209 on: October 12, 2022, 07:32:05 PM »
Wm

Again, who on his staff did he tell to do it? No one has come forward. He has not claimed this in any legal filing.

And again, this is not about classification. This is about possession of documents that belong to the Federal Government, not Trump. They are not his documents and he hid the fact that he had them from the rightful owner. He stole them. Plain and simple.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #210 on: October 13, 2022, 03:36:31 PM »

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #211 on: October 18, 2022, 07:49:12 AM »
Trump getting  Cannon as his judge is looking fishy.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/incredible-mystery-trump-got-judge-084331847.html

TheDrake

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #212 on: October 18, 2022, 02:32:21 PM »
Trump getting  Cannon as his judge is looking fishy.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/incredible-mystery-trump-got-judge-084331847.html

tl;dr It's the Daily Beast again. And the article is citing an "Incredible Mystery". Of course, the content of the article claims the opposite of a mystery, that it was obvious.

If you dig down you get this admission finally.

Quote
But the system still appears random. The previous Friday in West Palm Beach, Cannon got the first lawsuit of the day. Judge Donald M. Middlebrooks got the next three. Cannon got the last one.

So it is all innuendo, "maybe a Trump lawyer had influence with a clerk, hmmmmmmm? Hmmmmm?!!" "Were they unable to file electronically, or not? hnmmm? hmmm? HMMMMMM!"

Come back with an article that draws a link between a Trump lawyer and a clerk. Or any other tangible evidence of anything shady. Even if they were judge shopping, which can and does happen, just like trying to steer a case into a certain venue, I don't think there's anything illegal about it.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #213 on: October 19, 2022, 10:10:48 AM »
Trump knew the papers were classified and he showed them to people anyway.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-acknowledged-interview-letters-kim-120436877.html


msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #214 on: October 21, 2022, 02:10:45 AM »
Trump claims that clemency and pardon requests are his personal property.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-clemency-requests-personal-234451680.html

Lets see. Who can grant pardons? The President, not Donald Trump personally.  So how does that make it his personal property?

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #215 on: October 25, 2022, 07:51:48 AM »
Well Kash Patel, Trump aide, who claimed Trump declassified documents will not say so under oath.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/aide-once-claimed-trump-former-022452710.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_11

Let's see. Patel says he saw Trump declassify documents. Trump them pushes Patel's "Childrens" Book about the Great Trump to help push sales.

Nothing suspicious there.

Again and again Trump loyalist will not testify under oath. They are eager enough to spread their stories (lies) to the public but when it comes time to put up or shut up, nothing but silence.  Plenty of former Trump supporters have testified under oath, but those are the ones who have come to realize what a disaster Trump is and that they are saving themselves from what comes at the end of this.

NobleHunter

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #216 on: October 25, 2022, 08:00:01 AM »
I suspect part of the reticence to testify on this matter that stealing government documents is illegal even if they were declassified. Perhaps he couldn't find a  way to say "yeah, Trump totally declassified them" without being at risk of admitting he took them.

rightleft22

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #217 on: October 25, 2022, 10:12:58 AM »
I suspect part of the reticence to testify on this matter that stealing government documents is illegal even if they were declassified. Perhaps he couldn't find a  way to say "yeah, Trump totally declassified them" without being at risk of admitting he took them.

Is the Fact that he took them in question?

NobleHunter

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #218 on: October 25, 2022, 10:16:58 AM »
I don't know if it's been proven that Patel took documents or not but even if it was, he still shouldn't incriminate himself.

Wayward Son

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #219 on: October 25, 2022, 12:48:55 PM »
Is the Fact that he took them in question?

Mark my words:  it will be.  It will be.  ;D

LetterRip

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #220 on: October 25, 2022, 12:50:10 PM »
Is the Fact that he took them in question?

Mark my words:  it will be.  It will be.  ;D

Trump has already claimed they were planted by the FBI.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #221 on: October 25, 2022, 12:53:49 PM »
Has he done so in court pleadings?  Given any evidence of evidence planting?  What he says in public is of no matter. He lies to the public all the time. In court his lawyers are usually much more careful.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #222 on: October 25, 2022, 01:42:09 PM »
Has he done so in court pleadings?  Given any evidence of evidence planting?  What he says in public is of no matter. He lies to the public all the time. In court his lawyers are usually much more careful.

In court they have started being slightly more careful. As one of his lawyers is probably soon going to be a codefendant in an obstruction of justice case in certifying that all the papers had been returned. Whoops. They have reigned themselves in from that point. Being Trump's lawyer tends to end up with people getting disbarred and/or going to prison.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #223 on: October 25, 2022, 01:49:53 PM »
Because he lies to his lawyers.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #224 on: October 25, 2022, 02:29:31 PM »
Trump has dropped his claim of Attorney-Client privilege on 9 of the documents.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-drops-attorney-client-claims-191234931.html

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #225 on: November 02, 2022, 09:15:18 PM »
Well they gave Kash Patel limited immunity for his testimony about the documents.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/top-trump-adviser-granted-immunity-235645860.html

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #226 on: November 07, 2022, 01:56:34 PM »
Well Trump might have taken gifts with him as well as papers.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/investigators-looking-dozens-expensive-gifts-150232123.html

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #227 on: November 10, 2022, 01:06:20 PM »
It is a half hour long but a fairly good comparison between Hillary and Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pDEPDxMbh4

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #228 on: November 14, 2022, 12:35:57 PM »
So Trump's team is claiming that some of the documents are personal documents.

However, personal documents can still be seized for investigations.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/justice-department-accuses-trump-shell-162427112.html

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #229 on: November 18, 2022, 02:07:09 PM »
Garland is naming Special Council for the documents probe and the Jan 6 probe.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/garland-names-special-counsel-lead-184149149.html

Not sure what this means other than Trump will spin it what ever way he wants.

yossarian22c

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #230 on: November 18, 2022, 02:26:46 PM »
Garland is naming Special Council for the documents probe and the Jan 6 probe.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/garland-names-special-counsel-lead-184149149.html

Not sure what this means other than Trump will spin it what ever way he wants.

Probably means charges are coming. Garland is appointing special counsel's to give them some insulation from the upcoming House of Investigations.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #231 on: November 18, 2022, 03:12:12 PM »

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #232 on: November 18, 2022, 05:35:58 PM »
It took Triump about an hour to call the Special Counsel names.

“I have never heard of such a thing. They found nothing. I announce and then they appoint a special prosecutor,” he said Friday. “They found nothing, and now they take some guy who hates Trump. This is a disgrace and only happening because I am leading in every poll in both parties.”

So many things wrong in that statment.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #233 on: November 21, 2022, 11:00:15 AM »
Many non partisan legal groups think there is more than enough evidence to charge Trump in both the GA fake electors case and the documents case.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/experts-evidence-two-probes-compels-110000959.html


yossarian22c

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #234 on: November 21, 2022, 11:11:06 AM »
Many non partisan legal groups think there is more than enough evidence to charge Trump in both the GA fake electors case and the documents case.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/experts-evidence-two-probes-compels-110000959.html

The documents case is a slam dunk. The signed statement saying everything was returned after the subpoena shows intent to hide what the FBI later found with the search warrant. The Georgia cases (multiple) and Ron Johnson fake electors plot are more vague. I'm sure Trump has his mafia like vagueness in approving those. It will be another case of the people around him going to jail but not Trump. Stealing and withholding the classified documents is so simple to prosecute based on all the steps the government went through to get them back before resorting in a search warrant. Fake electors scheme is more serious but based on the number of moving parts and people involved I'm sure Trump was careful to have some type of distance or deniability. Maybe he only gave a wink and a nod to those involved to go forward with it. I doubt he ever put anything in writing asking for any of it. 

The Georgia case with a higher chance of success is the interference/intimidation of voting officials based on his call with the Georgia SoS.

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #235 on: December 01, 2022, 08:39:22 PM »
Belongs in this thread as well.

Special Master decision over turned.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/appeals-court-overturns-special-master-225940461.html

Best line in the decision.

"The law is clear," the three-judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled. "We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so."

msquared

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Re: The Trump Papers
« Reply #236 on: December 02, 2022, 08:00:15 AM »
Trump will of course appeal to the USSC, but my guess is that they will refuse to hear the case. As they should. This was a delaying tactic from the start put before a Trump judge who never should have been involved in the first place.