Author Topic: Election Results  (Read 323700 times)

LetterRip

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1450 on: May 24, 2021, 02:14:03 PM »
In 40 states the hardware is over 10 years old, which was the assumption I was working under.   It looks like Maricopa replaced them in 2019 though with the Dominion Democracy System 5.5-B (some sources say 5.5-D others 5.5-A ).

https://azelectionlaw.com/index/?p=163

Info on certification here

https://www.eac.gov/voting-equipment/democracy-suite-55b-modification

Could not find anything on the chain of trust for firmware etc.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1451 on: June 01, 2021, 03:21:11 PM »
Now Trump is listening to those who think he will be reinstated in Aug.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/delusional-former-president-telling-people-170000357.html

These people keep coming up with new dates, just like the end of the world people.

Does he truly believe his big lie?  Is he going all in so when he gets his date in court his lawyers can claim mental defect?  If he truly believes this stuff, against all evidence, can he really be found guilty? Can Trump suffer from Trumpism like his followers from Jan 6 say they suffer from it?

So far the shill auditing company in AZ has not found any evidence of massive fraud. You think that if they had they would have leaked something by now.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1452 on: June 01, 2021, 04:47:33 PM »
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"I want to know why what happened in Minamar (sic)can't happen here?" a member of the audience, who identified himself as a Marine, asked Flynn.

"No reason, I mean, it should happen here. No reason. That's right," Flynn responded.

A message posted to a Parler account used by Flynn on Monday, however, claimed Flynn's words had been twisted.

"Let me be VERY CLEAR - There is NO reason whatsoever for any coup in America, and I do not and have not at any time called for any action of that sort," the message said.

Lawyer Sidney Powell, who has represented Flynn in the past, said Monday that he had in no way encouraged "any act of violence or any military insurrection." She claimed the media had "grossly distorted" Flynn's comments. She did not explain why Flynn had answered the question the way he did.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1453 on: June 01, 2021, 06:43:19 PM »
You can listen to Flynn's (original) words here.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1454 on: June 02, 2021, 08:39:32 AM »
So do any of the conservatives here on the site think Trump has any chance of being reinstated as President in Aug.?

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1455 on: June 02, 2021, 11:56:23 AM »
And after only a month, Trumps' blog is down for the count.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1456 on: June 06, 2021, 02:30:22 PM »
Here's some disturbing statistics.

Almost half of the members of the Latter Day Saints believe "the big lie" that election fraud made Biden the President, and almost a quarter of them subscribe to the QAnon conspiracy theory.

Of course, this is about the same percentages of all Republicans. 

But you would think they would be smarter than regular Republicans. :(

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1457 on: June 07, 2021, 03:12:43 PM »
It is so predictable that the Democrat apologists refer to "the Big Lie" whenever they excuse their voting irregularities and corruption. No one denies the many attempts to scam the election by Democrats. Their rebuttal is only that it was on both sides, and that the numbers weren't big enough to matter. Sad. The numbers were enough to sway the election - and the scammers were Democrats.

Words do have meanings, yet Democrats also know careful use of clichés and tested word play can distort truth. They used "Gravitas" to insult opponents, until the people recognized it was the Dems who lacked it, and the word disappeared overnight. the "Big Lie" is a Marx/Engels concept they often use, and now they try to use it against those who call them on it. Predictable.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1458 on: June 07, 2021, 03:27:38 PM »
Wm is starting to have Trump verbal styles. Sad.

Please show large scale voter fraud or attempts at fraud in the last 20 years? By either side.  So far the only fraud that I have heard of in the 2020 election have been individual cases by Trump supporters.

Again, you claim large scale fraud but have no proof. You go back 60 years to events that happened in the middle of the last century for your evidence.

Try some evidence this century.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1459 on: June 07, 2021, 03:46:21 PM »
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No one denies the many attempts to scam the election by Democrats.

Your sample group for "no one" must not include any Democrats.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1460 on: June 07, 2021, 04:08:34 PM »
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It is so predictable that the Democrat apologists refer to "the Big Lie" whenever they excuse their voting irregularities and corruption.

No, we call it "the Big Lie" because it is a big, obvious lie.  This election was scrutinized more than any recent election, and no major irregularities or corruption were found.  No more than usual, which means that, if you believe this election was uncertain, you must believe just about every election was uncertain (and certainly the previous one :) ).

If you disagree with that assessment, prove it.  Preferably in a court of law. :)

Many have tried in the courts and couldn't.  Many were laughed out of court by the judges, even Republican judges, who wouldn't even let the ridiculous assertions go to trial.  One lawyer even stated that she did not expect anyone to believe her assertions were true.  ;D

And while normally we would let people believe as they will, January 6 proved that to be too dangerous in this political climate.  Because some people actually believe the Big Lie, and are willing to attack the police in order to try to enforce their beliefs on all of us.  That can not be tolerated.  This nation is too valuable to allow it to be ruined by a Big Lie.

So get used to being reminded that it is a Big Lie, that Republicans should be ashamed of themselves for propagating it, and that we will not tolerate liars trying to run, and ruin, our country.  >:(

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1461 on: June 07, 2021, 04:15:06 PM »
I asked this before to any of the Trumpist on the site. 
Do you think Trump will be President by the end of Aug 2021?  As Trump and many of his followers now believe?

cherrypoptart

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1462 on: June 08, 2021, 02:13:38 AM »
I don't think Trump will be President again until after the 2024 election at the earliest.

But I will say that every time I hear someone say, "Prove It!", it reminds me of Lex Luthor and other villains.

Just catching up on my Supergirl tv and heard that exact thing today and though his crimes couldn't be proven because he is of course an evil genius it doesn't mean he wasn't guilty as sin anyway.

I wonder if Democrats might be even smarter than Lex though. He is a master manipulator, strategist, and tactician. What the Democrats did instead is just get rid of every possible security mechanism they could such as voter I.D.

This was interesting to me:

"In addition, some states have made it illegal for volunteers or workers to gather and submit mail-in ballots, a practice known as "ballot collecting," because of the potential for fraud, coercion, or vote manipulation."

https://scienceexchange.caltech.edu/topics/voting-elections/vote-by-mail-security

The interesting part there is "some states have made it illegal". The implication is that some other states are fine with it even though there is the potential for fraud, coercion, or vote manipulation.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1463 on: June 08, 2021, 11:18:26 AM »
Is it really so baffling to you Cherry? You refuse to admit that any voting security measure has a downside in terms of limiting ballot access. You accept some small amount of fraud in exchange for enabling a certain percentage of people to vote when they would otherwise find it difficult or impossible.

Significant fraud gets caught even on a local level, it just does.

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On the first day of the evidentiary hearing, state elections director Kim Strach said the evidence would show that "a coordinated, unlawful and substantially resourced absentee ballot scheme operated in the 2018 general election".[16] Lisa Britt, the daughter of Dowless's ex-wife as well as one of his employees, said Dowless and his associates had collected ballots from voters. She then testified that the ballots were kept at Dowless' home or office for several days or longer, and that operatives would fill in votes on parts or all of some ballots to favor Republican candidates in the election.[16] She also said they had forged some witness signatures and that they had followed the direction of Dowless to take steps to avoid detection, including controlling the color of the pens used for the witness signatures, signing a different person's name as a witness to avoid having the same person as witness to too many ballots, making sure to deliver no more than nine ballots in each visit to the post office, and making sure to use post offices near where the voters lived.[16][13] Britt also said she had personally voted despite being on probation for a felony conviction and that she had taken advice from Dowless about how to do that.[13] Dowless himself was present at the hearing but refused to testify without being granted immunity from prosecution.[16]

Despite a concentrated effort to avoid getting caught, found and prosecuted.

Some people get away with insurance fraud, we don't make it dramatically more difficult to get insurance or to file a claim to attempt to eliminate every possibility of it.

As I keep saying until I'm blue in the face however, you COULD have all your safety precautions and NOT suppress voting. You could reimburse voters for lost wages and transportation, You could have ballot collecting only allowed if representatives from both parties are present. But that's not what most people really want, what they really want is to do everything possible to make sure that poor people - especially people of color, find it too onerous to vote.

So let me get it straight, Democrats are both evil geniuses and idiots who can't do anything right? You saw healthcare.gov, right? Those are the guys who fired up a smokescreen so complete that they've stolen a nationwide election?

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1464 on: June 08, 2021, 11:39:45 AM »
There is a saying that the Greatest Trick the Devil Ever Pulled Was Convincing the World He Didn’t Exist. The trick behind the trick is gas lighting and useful idiot.


Fenring

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1465 on: June 08, 2021, 11:40:30 AM »
So let me get it straight, Democrats are both evil geniuses and idiots who can't do anything right? You saw healthcare.gov, right? Those are the guys who fired up a smokescreen so complete that they've stolen a nationwide election?

I don't really have any skin in the game on this issue, but I don't think this type of argument holds water. The whole "how can government maintain a conspiracy when they are incompetent" argument can be used to 'refute' any sort of cover-up or covert actions, but doesn't address that the government isn't a single person with a single 'character'. No doubt some sorts of assemblages of officials can't do anything right, whereas others types of sub-specialists can do pinpoint precision work with zero trace. And even large-scale projects such as the Manhattan Project are capable of being kept undercover even while involving many high-ranking officials. So it's not that it can't be done, it's just that it depends on what sort of operation we're talking about and what the stakes are.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1466 on: June 08, 2021, 12:21:43 PM »
I don't think Trump will be President again until after the 2024 election at the earliest.

But I will say that every time I hear someone say, "Prove It!", it reminds me of Lex Luthor and other villains.

How about giving some evidence of fraud being committed even if you can't prove it? This could be statistical evidence where areas in key states differ significantly from polls or have absurdly high voter participation rate. The allegation right now is that there was massive voter fraud but:
1) We can't find any evidence.
2) We can't point to where it happened.
3) We can't identify who could be responsible for the fraud.
4) We can't explain a realistic mechanism for how 10 to 100's of thousand of votes could have been fraudulently cast.

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...
 What the Democrats did instead is just get rid of every possible security mechanism they could such as voter I.D.

Democrats didn't get rid of voter ID. Voter ID is a new requirement for voting that Republicans are trying to push because it creates barriers to voting for people who lean Democratic, not because there was a rash of people running around casting fraudulent ballets at multiple polling places.

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This was interesting to me:

"In addition, some states have made it illegal for volunteers or workers to gather and submit mail-in ballots, a practice known as "ballot collecting," because of the potential for fraud, coercion, or vote manipulation."

https://scienceexchange.caltech.edu/topics/voting-elections/vote-by-mail-security

The interesting part there is "some states have made it illegal". The implication is that some other states are fine with it even though there is the potential for fraud, coercion, or vote manipulation.

Yes, ballot harvesting should be prohibited or highly regulated. At the same time, drop boxes, controlled mail in/absentee ballots, early voting are all things that can be done reasonably safely. I would even be okay with Republicans looking to make absentee/mail in ballots rare if they would couple that with expanded early voting, longer poll hours, and more polling places. But Republicans are only interested in making voting more difficult.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1467 on: June 08, 2021, 01:22:25 PM »
So let me get it straight, Democrats are both evil geniuses and idiots who can't do anything right? You saw healthcare.gov, right? Those are the guys who fired up a smokescreen so complete that they've stolen a nationwide election?

I don't really have any skin in the game on this issue, but I don't think this type of argument holds water. The whole "how can government maintain a conspiracy when they are incompetent" argument can be used to 'refute' any sort of cover-up or covert actions, but doesn't address that the government isn't a single person with a single 'character'. No doubt some sorts of assemblages of officials can't do anything right, whereas others types of sub-specialists can do pinpoint precision work with zero trace. And even large-scale projects such as the Manhattan Project are capable of being kept undercover even while involving many high-ranking officials. So it's not that it can't be done, it's just that it depends on what sort of operation we're talking about and what the stakes are.

But you have to admit, Ferning, that the original argument that "the conspiracy is so perfect that there is no credible proof right now that it happened, although we know it did" holds even less water, and is flexible enough to be used to prove anything from election fraud to Obama being born in Kenya to Donald Trump being a reptilian alien from the 10th planet of our solar system (the 9th planet also being covered-up). :)

And while the Manhattan Project was well concealed at the time, it eventually was uncovered, and it was a much simpler operation to keep undercover, since it occurred in a small location with a limited number of people who were involved.  A massive election fraud as the Republicans are saying would occur across the nation and involve dozens, if not hundreds, of unvetted local officials (from various political parties) along with hundreds of security personnel to prevent bystanders from accidently witnessing the fraud.  Can you cite a similar scaled conspiracy in the past that was successful at the time?  And who ran it?

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1468 on: June 08, 2021, 01:47:52 PM »
I would think that everyone has skin in this game?
When the lack of proof becomes proof is a dangiours argument.

A lie creating the thing that is feared and then used as the reason why other actions must now be taken... If we are labeling something diabolical, something that distorts realty and done in the open, nothing up my sleeves...  would that not quality? Genius and or madness?
Those that want to believe are given the excuse not to notice what they don't want to admit they see. Eventually such cognitive dissonance won't lead to much... positive.

We all have skin in this game and those that stand back and do not confront such..."reasoning" and dissonance aren't being balanced and even handed.

Fenring

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1469 on: June 08, 2021, 02:10:47 PM »
But you have to admit, Ferning, that the original argument that "the conspiracy is so perfect that there is no credible proof right now that it happened, although we know it did" holds even less water, and is flexible enough to be used to prove anything from election fraud to Obama being born in Kenya to Donald Trump being a reptilian alien from the 10th planet of our solar system (the 9th planet also being covered-up). :)

The argument, such as it is, appears to be that certain types of scenarios will have an identical appearance despite two potential histories. This is not particularly controversial as far as I'm concerned. It's quite evident that not all observations can lead to a back-trace of history; that does not discount that multiple histories are potentially possible. An example that actually sees considerable play in the real world is that of the existence of God. If you on the one hand take a universe with no God, and on the other hand one where God does not materially interfere like a wizard, or if He does it's in invisible ways, the two are going to be appear isomorphic if you look out the window and do a general inspection. It does not mean that the lack of being able to tell the difference at a glance means you have derived some kind of information about which situation you're in. It actually means that if you're being rational you have to be agnostic until you receive more on the subject. Now in terms of campaign fraud I suppose this might mean accepting that it could be true while also knowing it could be impossible to find out. The issue here seems to be largely about money - how much is it worth to construct a system from whole cloth that would avoid this potential issue, especially considering it may not even be happening?

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And while the Manhattan Project was well concealed at the time, it eventually was uncovered, and it was a much simpler operation to keep undercover, since it occurred in a small location with a limited number of people who were involved.

The totality of the project actually included huge amounts of people. But what would be true would be to say that very few of them knew the full significance of what they were doing. And the same would presumably be true of a voter fraud situation, if it did exist.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1470 on: June 08, 2021, 02:22:36 PM »
So let me get it straight, Democrats are both evil geniuses and idiots who can't do anything right? You saw healthcare.gov, right? Those are the guys who fired up a smokescreen so complete that they've stolen a nationwide election?

I don't really have any skin in the game on this issue, but I don't think this type of argument holds water. The whole "how can government maintain a conspiracy when they are incompetent" argument can be used to 'refute' any sort of cover-up or covert actions, but doesn't address that the government isn't a single person with a single 'character'. No doubt some sorts of assemblages of officials can't do anything right, whereas others types of sub-specialists can do pinpoint precision work with zero trace. And even large-scale projects such as the Manhattan Project are capable of being kept undercover even while involving many high-ranking officials. So it's not that it can't be done, it's just that it depends on what sort of operation we're talking about and what the stakes are.

I think it can't be extended in all cases, but let me attempt to improve on my point. Hundreds of grass roots organizers are collecting and modifying ballots, voting under false or unused registrations, coercing or otherwise taking advantage of compromised voters - including the elderly, or some other such scheme. None of them - not one - gets caught doing this affecting more than a handful of ballots at most. Nobody breaks OPSEC protocols and posts about it on social media. Everyone solicited to do such work agrees or at least goes along with it and doesn't blow the whistle. All under significant scrutiny by poll workers, auditors, poll watchers, and the general public.

Making it somewhat more relevant, let's compare instead to the Iowa caucuses since it involves many of the same kind of people supposedly embroiled in brilliant fraud. The app they decided to use worked like garbage, they were incapable of counting 175,000 ballots cast by their own party in the primary.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1471 on: June 08, 2021, 02:33:36 PM »
But you have to admit, Ferning, that the original argument that "the conspiracy is so perfect that there is no credible proof right now that it happened, although we know it did" holds even less water, and is flexible enough to be used to prove anything from election fraud to Obama being born in Kenya to Donald Trump being a reptilian alien from the 10th planet of our solar system (the 9th planet also being covered-up). :)

The argument, such as it is, appears to be that certain types of scenarios will have an identical appearance despite two potential histories. This is not particularly controversial as far as I'm concerned. It's quite evident that not all observations can lead to a back-trace of history; that does not discount that multiple histories are potentially possible. An example that actually sees considerable play in the real world is that of the existence of God. If you on the one hand take a universe with no God, and on the other hand one where God does not materially interfere like a wizard, or if He does it's in invisible ways, the two are going to be appear isomorphic if you look out the window and do a general inspection. It does not mean that the lack of being able to tell the difference at a glance means you have derived some kind of information about which situation you're in. It actually means that if you're being rational you have to be agnostic until you receive more on the subject. Now in terms of campaign fraud I suppose this might mean accepting that it could be true while also knowing it could be impossible to find out. The issue here seems to be largely about money - how much is it worth to construct a system from whole cloth that would avoid this potential issue, especially considering it may not even be happening?

The issue is not so much about money, but the fact that, given the premise, any statement can be "proven" true.  Which therefore means that it proves nothing.

But then I wouldn't have expected any less from a reptilian alien.  ;D

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And while the Manhattan Project was well concealed at the time, it eventually was uncovered, and it was a much simpler operation to keep undercover, since it occurred in a small location with a limited number of people who were involved.

The totality of the project actually included huge amounts of people. But what would be true would be to say that very few of them knew the full significance of what they were doing. And the same would presumably be true of a voter fraud situation, if it did exist.

Except a lot of them, if not all, knew they were doing something secret, and quite a few of them probably guessed something about what it was, especially when reports came out about what was really happening.  And practically all of them knew they had to keep quiet because there was a war going on.  Basically, the people involved were told they were doing something that had to do with national security and agreed to keep quiet.

It would be a very different situation for massive voter fraud.  People would have to ignorant of what they were doing or that it would be considered illegal (highly unlikely if they were competent at their jobs or reasonable intelligent), or agreed to keep quiet about it, even though there is no national security issue with what they were doing, it is actually illegal and could cause they harm if they did not report it, and there are widespread "reports" of it happening.  In other words, rather than being patriots and help defend their country, every single one of them would know they were hurting their country (or believe it was best for the country, in spite of being illegal), or just be stupid.

When you have the entirety of the U.S. laws and government, and the will of the people, behind you, it is possible to keep a grand secret like the Manhattan Project (mostly) secret.  When the laws and the U.S. government are against you, along with at least half the population, it is nearly impossible to keep everyone to that level of secrecy.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1472 on: June 08, 2021, 02:40:55 PM »
The Manhattan Project only lasted 4 years and was during war time with special considerations for national security (done under the auspice of the military).

According to Wikipedia

A 1945 Life article estimated that before the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings "probably no more than a few dozen men in the entire country knew the full meaning of the Manhattan Project, and perhaps only a thousand others even were aware that work on atoms was involved."

Fenring

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1473 on: June 08, 2021, 02:49:35 PM »
Just to be clear, I brought up the Manhattan Project specifically to address the syllogism that government cannot simultaneously be seen as incompetent and also ultra-competent in keeping a massive conspiracy under wraps. I view that particular argument as a false dilemma. I was not specifically trying to show an equivalence between the MP and the current state of elections, so I obviously agree with the differences some of you just showed.

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1474 on: June 08, 2021, 02:49:57 PM »
Let's also point out that most of the forms of fraud described by claimants of fraud would clearly be fraud to the person committing it.

* signing as a witness without the original voter present
* casting a ballot in someone else's name
* throwing away ballots
* paying someone for their vote
* driving truckloads of ballots out of state for some reason
* importing ballots from China

The exception would be some sort of electronic manipulation, assuming it could be done remotely. If done locally, you're back to getting hundreds of election officials to provide access to machines. Or some kind  of secret code slipped into a master update.

But the latter scenario isn't helped by voter ID laws or other measures proposed to stop fraud.

LetterRip

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1475 on: June 08, 2021, 02:50:54 PM »
A viewpoint about the credibility of a claim is still 'agnostic' - I believe it is theoretically possible that I can win the powerball 5 times in a row with a completely fair and unbiased drawing, ergo agnostic - but the odds are so impossibly low it is a practical impossibility.

That is the same with claims of election fraud of such extent that it could alter the outcome of the election.  It is utterly implausible given the substantial resources that have been utilized to investigate it without turning anything up and the logistical and practical difficulties of doing so without a large number of leaks and getting caught.

The statistical evidence is such that we can be extremely confident it didn't happen in the states that have been investigated.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1476 on: June 08, 2021, 02:53:25 PM »
I wonder what would happen if we investigated Texas and FL and Kansas to see if there was any fraud on the right?

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1477 on: June 08, 2021, 02:56:07 PM »
Even if you can't prove there isn't a monkey in my sock drawer, you can say that my claim lacks credibility.

Fenring

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1478 on: June 08, 2021, 04:39:03 PM »
Even if you can't prove there isn't a monkey in my sock drawer, you can say that my claim lacks credibility.

It depends. LR is correct that an issue with real-world calculability may be subjected to, for lack of a better term, a probability of being likely. But not every event or theory is calculable, depending on how much information you're missing. Just as a sci-fi example, tell me the "probability" that one day we will discover how to use site to site transporters like in Star Trek? It's not calculable, because the extent to which much of physics is beyond our reach means we lack even the awareness of the variables that could go into such a calculation. In fact 'likelihood' on such a topic is an actual misuse of language. I don't entirely disagree in this case that an extremely complex series of unknowns having to converge to validate a theory makes it much harder to believe. To an extent it's a question of systems versus intention. I have no difficulty believing that someone, or even a significant group of people, would cheat or conspire to defraud people for personal advantage. But extending that to include ordinary members of society, random workers, and lookers on, requires increasingly convoluted connections for it to work. But I am also very wary of the general form that side of argument takes, which is "what are the chances there's some deep conspiracy here?" That question has no simple answer. The more plausible to scheme to execute, the more I'd assume by default it's going on.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1479 on: June 09, 2021, 10:54:21 AM »
Another Proud Boy/ MAGA supporter arrested.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/proud-boy-brag-to-mother-arrested-020734334.html

Are the Trumpist reading where these people are saying Trump told them to do this? They firmly believe that Trump wanted them to storm the Capitol and stop the election of Biden.  Why do they believe this?  Because that is what Trump and his allies worked them up to in the months after the election.

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1480 on: June 09, 2021, 03:47:08 PM »
Wm is starting to have Trump verbal styles. Sad.

Please show large scale voter fraud or attempts at fraud in the last 20 years? By either side.  So far the only fraud that I have heard of in the 2020 election have been individual cases by Trump supporters.

Again, you claim large scale fraud but have no proof. You go back 60 years to events that happened in the middle of the last century for your evidence.

Try some evidence this century.

I don't know where you get your evidence from - but I saw hundreds of legal affidavits that witnessed illegal voting practices by the Democrats and Never-Trumpers. You asked why the courts didn't act on them, and the answer is that the courts never looked at them. Even the Supreme Court that did have the authority to look at it didn't. Read the minority opinions to see how wrong that was.

How is the audit in Georgia coming?

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1481 on: June 09, 2021, 03:56:36 PM »
Which GA audit? They have done 3 and all confirmed the results.

Oh and you mean the affidavits from people who did not know how the process worked and were found unrelaiable? Those?

And the SC has jurisdiction on some of the cases and even with a majority conservative court decided not to hear the cases. Why? We can only guess that it was because they found nothing to warrant them hearing the cases in the evidence put before them.

And I get my evidence from all of the states that did recounts and audits of their elections and found no issues. Even states run by Republican Governors and Secratary's of State.

You say the courts never looked at them.  I think that is wrong. They looked at them and found them not persuavise. Why? Becuase the people making the claims did not know what they were talking about. The courts looked at them and said "sorry, nothing to see here, move along."

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1482 on: June 09, 2021, 04:19:13 PM »
Yeah, look at the latest results and use your head. There were less than 3,000 uncounted votes discovered in just one county - and that number, by itself, brought down Biden's lead by a thousand votes. So 2/3 of the voters not counted were for Trump. You should appreciate how Biden's largely unanimous votes that came in after deadlines said they should not be voted were not following any logical trend. Remember, Trump had hugely increased his support with Blacks, Latinos, and other groups that used to vote Democrat. There is no way Biden had near 100% support anywhere. Yet he did from vote-harvesting.

Face it. Trump generated more support than any other candidate ever, including Obama who was well-supported by his party. Biden was not well supported. But the miracle votes said he was. Please explain why people who now had jobs because of Trump would vote for Biden. People who received $1,400 stimulus checks are now paying more than $1,500 in higher gas bills - not to mention skyrocketing pricing of lumber, food, and other unavoidable costs. Call any of the supposed voters from the vote harvesting scams and ask them who they supported. Oh right, the media no longer delves into fact-checking.

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1483 on: June 09, 2021, 04:22:48 PM »
...You say the courts never looked at them.  I think that is wrong. They looked at them and found them not persuavise. Why? Becuase the people making the claims did not know what they were talking about. The courts looked at them and said "sorry, nothing to see here, move along."

No. Most of the courts that may have made a difference refused to look at any facts, saying the affidavits were not to be seen due to a disputed lack of standing. Although the standing was obvious, even SCOTUS never looked at the facts. No one ever checked if votes gathered after legal time lines were violated were counted. So sad.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1484 on: June 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM »
Wm

Simple yes or no question.

Will Trump be President at the end of Aug?

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1485 on: June 09, 2021, 04:28:46 PM »
BTW. Most people who submitted affidavits were professionals who personally witnessed violations. They did know what they were talking about. You, on the other hand...

Why did those hundreds of Democrat attorneys put in place prior to the voting, work so hard to make sure no affidavits were even looked at by any court? How do you know no one knew what they were talking about? The media went out of their way not to investigate, and no info came from court proceedings.

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1486 on: June 09, 2021, 04:32:25 PM »
Why were hundreds of Republican's attorneys put in place prior to the voting...

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1487 on: June 09, 2021, 04:36:08 PM »
Wm

Simple yes or no question.

Will Trump be President at the end of Aug?

Simple answer. Of course not. He may have won the election - but proving it is not going to happen soon. The object now is to stop the Democrats from stealing future elections. The latest news is that long-time Democrat districts are going 75-85% GOP. That is because of Biden and Harris. Do you expect the Democrats barely hanging on to power to not cheat again? Trump is focused on grass roots elections nationwide and the midterms - not on overturning the 2020 election. So far, he is far ahead of all predictions.

I doubt in your heart you believe the Democrats won fairly.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1488 on: June 09, 2021, 04:38:30 PM »
I feel deep in my heart that Biden won fair and square. Trump is focused on the 2020 election since he still is talking about the election.

We will see in 2022.  If Trump is not under indictment by then or arrested and awaiting trial.

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1489 on: June 09, 2021, 04:41:33 PM »
Yeah, look at the latest results and use your head. There were less than 3,000 uncounted votes discovered in just one county - and that number, by itself, brought down Biden's lead by a thousand votes.

Which county? The one in Ga run entirely by Republicans that was processed in the final count of the state?

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So 2/3 of the voters not counted were for Trump. You should appreciate how Biden's largely unanimous votes that came in after deadlines said they should not be voted were not following any logical trend.

Where were votes allowed in after deadlines set by election officials and verified by the courts prior to the election?

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...
Face it. Trump generated more support than any other candidate ever...

Except Biden.

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... Please explain why people who now had jobs because of Trump would vote for Biden. ...

Because Trump is a narcissist, sociopath, and a lair who only cares about himself.

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1490 on: June 09, 2021, 04:45:27 PM »
Why were hundreds of Republican's attorneys put in place prior to the voting...

A few were asked to participate. Can you name any except Sidney Powell?

Face it. The GOP lawyers were a reaction to the Dems plan to stop all legal questions. Since the states where the cheating swung the election were in the hands of Democrats or Never-Trumpers, those in charge were predisposed to block anything the GOP may have done to stop the vote scamming. Would you have locked the GOP poll watchers out of the buildings before all those harvested votes started coming in?

You do know that in Michigan we did prove vote-scamming, right? Nothing can come of it with Gretchen Whitmer in charge, though.

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1491 on: June 09, 2021, 04:49:27 PM »
GA was run by Democrats? AZ? PA?

yossarian22c

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1492 on: June 09, 2021, 04:53:51 PM »
You do know that in Michigan we did prove vote-scamming, right? Nothing can come of it with Gretchen Whitmer in charge, though.

What was proven? How many votes? And what is your evidence?

TheDrake

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1493 on: June 09, 2021, 04:54:34 PM »
Trumpian lawyers pushed statements that turned out to be hearsay, irrelevant (poll worker gave a dirty look to a poll watcher), based on misunderstandings of rules, and general idiocy like the guy who claimed he saw a truckload of ballots go out of stat and later recanted.

State lawyers, both (R) and (D), defended their election boards from wild accusations by getting most of the foolishness thrown out quickly by judges appointed by both (R) and (D).

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1494 on: June 09, 2021, 05:01:57 PM »
Lambert, there is a lot of misinformation out there about the election.  Could you cite your sources for your statements?  I suspect that much of it may be of dubious quality, and you may be misinformed about the facts.

And, of course, if we are misinformed, we would certainly like to know that, too. :)

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1495 on: June 09, 2021, 05:34:39 PM »
Yeah, look at the latest results and use your head. There were less than 3,000 uncounted votes discovered in just one county - and that number, by itself, brought down Biden's lead by a thousand votes.

Which county? The one in Ga run entirely by Republicans that was processed in the final count of the state?

Fayette County.

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So 2/3 of the voters not counted were for Trump. You should appreciate how Biden's largely unanimous votes that came in after deadlines said they should not be voted were not following any logical trend.

Where were votes allowed in after deadlines set by election officials and verified by the courts prior to the election?

We documented them in Michigan. Many affidavits did witness violations in the other states - yet the courts refused to look at the affidavits. Not because they were unknowledgeable or confused about the law, but because they were never allowed to be seen or evaluated.

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Face it. Trump generated more support than any other candidate ever...

Except Biden.

No. Biden's votes were out of left field. All the votes coming from legitimate voting precincts were heavily in favor of Trump. It was only the vote harvesting that skewed everything. Many professional software experts did attest that the voting machines did move Trump votes into the Biden totals. Mkes total sense.

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... Please explain why people who now had jobs because of Trump would vote for Biden. ...

Because Trump is a narcissist, sociopath, and a lair who only cares about himself.

No, none of that is true. You have been disinformed. You see Trump as the Strawman your party created. If the media reported on his character the way they did when they thought he would run as a Democrat, you would say he was a good man. They don't so you don't. Predictable. Ever really listen to one of his great speeches? He is not a narcissist, he is funny. But then, Democrats have a deep dearth of humor. He is the opposite of a liar. What he said about China causing the virus is now being confirmed - but you accused him of lying back then. Again, predictable.

The sad thing is that you are not alone. I think Biden, as limited in his mental capacity as he is, thinks the same way. He's fallen for his own lies. Moreover, if he didn't hate Trump so much, or fear him, he could have left the border alone. He could have left the wall to be finished, and the pipelines to be completed. He could have kept blocking the Russian pipeline, and stopped Iran from supplying rockets to destroy Israel. So much he did against all logic - simply because he wanted to hurt Trump's legacy. Instead, Biden's own failures as compared to Trump's successes, has strengthened Trump's reputation.

wmLambert

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1496 on: June 09, 2021, 05:41:12 PM »
GA was run by Democrats? AZ? PA?

Do you not know who a Never-Trumper is? It's hard enough to overcome the Democrats with their complicit media, Hollywood, and education system designed by John Dewey to create lemmings - but overcoming the Swamp monsters who don't like a populist President who doesn't genuflect when faced with their overweening political acumen, is really hard.

rightleft22

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1497 on: June 09, 2021, 06:35:39 PM »
Question for wmLambert

If Trump was declared the Winner and Biden made the exact same claims as Trump did with the exact same "evidence" would you say The election was stolen.
I suspect you would say yes but that had that happened you would not.

Wayward Son

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1498 on: June 09, 2021, 06:39:11 PM »
Quote
Many professional software experts did attest that the voting machines did move Trump votes into the Biden totals. Makes total sense.

Really??  Which voting machines?  Who manufactured those machines?

Let's name names.  ;D

msquared

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Re: Election Results
« Reply #1499 on: June 09, 2021, 07:34:51 PM »
Kemp is a never Trumper?  The SS of GA a never Trumper?  Since when? The same with AZ and PA. They only got called Never Trumpers when they would not throw the election illegally to Trump.

Just watch. If DeSantis runs for President, lets see how fast Trump turns on him.