Author Topic: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency  (Read 1674 times)

wmLambert

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #100 on: November 21, 2020, 07:26:31 PM »
Yes, the average time for approval of vaccines is different than the companies creating them. The USA regulations and bureaucracy forced long development times. I remember when thalidomide was banned because of birth defects from it world wide. The slowness of the US regulations was praised as saving deformed babies. The rest of the world was called reckless. Trump is a regulation relaxer and bureaucracy breaker. His idea has always been to play safe - but don't let the slow inertia built in over the years last because no one ever looked at them for their efficacy.

cherrypoptart

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #101 on: November 21, 2020, 08:12:32 PM »
One thing I never would have predicted about a Biden Presidency while it's trying to get off the ground is that he would hit the ground not so much running as putting his hand out for money.

I never even imagined that could be a thing.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/joe-biden-trump-transition-fund-plea-035507178.html


"Here's the deal: Because President Trump refuses to concede and is delaying the transition, we have to fund it ourselves and need your help.

If you're able, chip in to help fund the Biden-Harris transition."

Needless to say, twitter and the internet were not having it.



msquared

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #102 on: November 21, 2020, 08:17:02 PM »
Is he wrong?  Is Trump's appointee not holding up the normal funding?

What about Trump's group asking for money to fight for recounts but about half going to pay off campaign debt?  In small print?

TheDrake

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #103 on: November 21, 2020, 08:54:15 PM »
Take out a loan. Trump's got a guy. Seriously, this is not about getting money, it's about publicizing the lack of acknowledgement. Pretty sure Soros would just give him a briefcase of money. Or China. Or the Ukraine. :)

yossarian22c

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #104 on: November 21, 2020, 11:02:02 PM »
One thing I never would have predicted about a Biden Presidency while it's trying to get off the ground is that he would hit the ground not so much running as putting his hand out for money.

I never even imagined that could be a thing.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/joe-biden-trump-transition-fund-plea-035507178.html


"Here's the deal: Because President Trump refuses to concede and is delaying the transition, we have to fund it ourselves and need your help.

If you're able, chip in to help fund the Biden-Harris transition."

Needless to say, twitter and the internet were not having it.

People on the internet weren't well informed and instead had fun with mocking the request?!?

Quote
As head of the General Services Administration, Murphy plays a key role in the presidential transition — unlocking nearly $10 million in federal dollars for the president-elect to begin hiring staff, and providing office space and access to officials across government agencies.

In a typical election, it's a determination that's made within a matter of hours. But 12 days since President-elect Joe Biden was declared the winner of the election, the Trump appointee has still not signed off on the paperwork.

https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/11/19/936747641/do-the-right-thing-what-a-gsa-predecessor-told-trump-appointee-about-transitions

But more than the $10 million which I think Biden could raise pretty easily (if he didn't have it left over from the campaign) is the lack of access to people in government. For example information about the plans to distribute the first 10-20 million doses of the vaccine that will likely start being available within weeks of the official transition of power.

Seriati

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #105 on: November 23, 2020, 03:21:37 PM »
My God you guys make my head hurt.  They already had contracts being negotiated with similar sales guarantees from Canada, the UK, etc.  Also how the f*ck does a sales garuntee negotiated AFTER they had done all of the work for starting stage 3 retroactively impact them doing stage 3?  Is your theory that they would have abandoned stage 3 and their other contracts if the US hadn't sought to make an order at that time?

Yes actually, but you have the circumstances wrong.  Let's say, they're testing their vaccine and finding it 75% effective early on, and their competitors start announcing 95% effective early results.  Is Pfizer going to continue working without the guarantee where it's looks likely they may never sell a single dose into a market owned by their competitors?  You don't have to hurt your brain here, that model already plays out every single day, with many promising drugs abandoned because they are not worth the additional costs when a competitor owns the market.   You may think that's as it should be, but the goal with Warp Speed was to continue all those developing drugs in case some of those early promising ones didn't pan out and we all ended up needing the late bloomer.

Honestly, this Economics 101, combined with USA drug approvals 101, the only thing that's failing for you is that it contradicts propaganda 101.

Quote
Trump administration had zero to do with the vaccine development.  Quit pretending and trying to deceive others that it did.

Propaganda 101 is strong with you.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 03:23:39 PM by Seriati »

msquared

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #106 on: November 23, 2020, 03:54:25 PM »
Yellen as SecTre.

Just announced. I think she gets through the Senate.

Ouija Nightmare

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #107 on: November 23, 2020, 04:02:08 PM »
Yellen as SecTre.

Just announced. I think she gets through the Senate.

Solid choice.

LetterRip

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #108 on: November 23, 2020, 04:56:27 PM »
Yes actually, but you have the circumstances wrong.  Let's say, they're testing their vaccine and finding it 75% effective early on, and their competitors start announcing 95% effective early results.

So what is actually done is that dosing is tweaked to see if it can be improved.

Quote
Is Pfizer going to continue working without the guarantee where it's looks likely they may never sell a single dose into a market owned by their competitors?

It is impossible to know what sales will be for a reduced efficacy drug.

Tweaking the dosage and extending the trial is fairly cheap relative to the sunk costs - this is, in fact - exactly what one of Pfizers competitors (AstraZeneca) did their first dosing regimen was only 62% effective, so they tried a higher dosage and achieved 90%.  It is extremely common to go through multiple rounds of dosing regimens to get a desired efficacy.  Also you can still sell it poor nations even at reduced efficacy and there is reason to expect that something could go wrong with later testing of ones competitors.  So unless the vaccine was a complete failure they would continue to completion.

Also Pfizer was one of the first to stage 3 testing, so their testing would have been close to complete or complete prior to solid data on competitors.

So again, you seem to have a lack of knowledge on the topic and to have ignored the specific circumstances of the vaccine.

Also your understanding of the drug market in general seems incorrect - drugs are not abandoned regularly is they show significant efficacy during a stage 3 trial even if a competitor is first to market.  Bringing an inferior drug to market is quite common - it can have different side effects or be better tolerated for some people, and marketshare is often more a function of marketing that purely efficacy.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 05:00:57 PM by LetterRip »

kidv

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #109 on: November 23, 2020, 06:35:25 PM »


It is impossible to know what sales will be for a reduced efficacy drug.

Tweaking the dosage and extending the trial is fairly cheap relative to the sunk costs - this is, in fact - exactly what one of Pfizers competitors (AstraZeneca) did their first dosing regimen was only 62% effective, so they tried a higher dosage and achieved 90%.  It is extremely common to go through multiple rounds of dosing regimens to get a desired efficacy.  Also you can still sell it poor nations even at reduced efficacy and there is reason to expect that something could go wrong with later testing of ones competitors.  So unless the vaccine was a complete failure they would continue to completion.



"The vaccine on average prevented 70% of COVID-19 cases in late-stage trials in Britain and Brazil. The success rate rose to 90% in a group of trial participants who accidentally received a half dose followed by a full dose. The efficacy was 62% if the full dose was given twice, as it was for most study participants."

https://www.ksl.com/article/50054092/astrazeneca-says-covid-19-vaccine-for-the-world-can-be-90-effective

Weird world of medicine.  The 90% efficacy of AstraZeneca is achieved through a reduced first dose and then a full second dose, perhaps mirroring how the body would slowly ramp up its defenses instead of going full blast at the start.

Seriati

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #110 on: November 24, 2020, 06:08:10 PM »
Yes actually, but you have the circumstances wrong.  Let's say, they're testing their vaccine and finding it 75% effective early on, and their competitors start announcing 95% effective early results.

So what is actually done is that dosing is tweaked to see if it can be improved.

Not when there's already 4 competitors with fully successful drugs in the market.  That's before you consider we're talking about a vaccine for a pandemic that is already triggering certain governments to indicate they may seize patents if they don't like the pricing. 

Sinking 2 billion into a drug that never sells in Europe or America because of better alternatives  and that never sells globally because of seized patents is a non-starter.  Giving up at $1.5 billion is a better alternative than spending $500 million more with no chance of hitting that in revenue.

Quote
It is impossible to know what sales will be for a reduced efficacy drug.

With a vaccine for a pandemic you're wrong.  It's in no one's interest to let a defective alternative vaccine be used, that just keeps the strain active in the third world to mutate and reinfect the first world.  That's an argument purely from a drug where efficacy is subjective not objective.  It works with many major label drugs because the specific chemical interactions they generate are not directly related to the conditions they treat.  For example, treating depression with an SSRI, which generally operates by increasing Seratonin - may or may not have the desired effect based on your particular body, it could also "treat" dozens of related and unrelated conditions.  Vaccines operate on a specific viral or bacterial condition, they may have components that can be reused for related (or even unrelated) viruses or bacteria, but they are not going to be used to treat unrelated medical or psychological conditions.  Accordingly, for most vaccines there is no profit in them.

Quote
Tweaking the dosage and extending the trial is fairly cheap relative to the sunk costs - this is, in fact - exactly what one of Pfizers competitors (AstraZeneca) did their first dosing regimen was only 62% effective, so they tried a higher dosage and achieved 90%.  It is extremely common to go through multiple rounds of dosing regimens to get a desired efficacy.

You talk so authoritatively even when you're essentially making things up.  Point out where - absent a Warp Speed program - these results occur?  Specifically, show the multiple pharma companies co-developing vaccines and doing so even after another competitor has already clearly developed a vaccine.  Heck they often drop out of such development when they just get word of another player in the development market.  It's not a mystery here either, some of the players got a head start because they picked up on vaccines they had previously stopped developing for novel viruses.

Quote
Also you can still sell it poor nations even at reduced efficacy and there is reason to expect that something could go wrong with later testing of ones competitors.

To treat a pandemic?  What first world virologist said that it would make sense to send ineffective vaccines to treat a global pandemic to the third world, and how does that make any economic sense?  Take a look at this chart https://howmuch.net/articles/pharmaceutical-trade-around-the-world for a visual representation on the relative markets there, and when you consider that even poor countries can tell the difference in which vaccines work and which work only sometimes, and that it's in everyone's interest to get them the best they're not taking the sub-standard product.  Not to mention, the way Big Pharma works, it's in their interest to sell the high quality drugs into poor markets at affordable prices, so there will be competition even there from known better products.

Quote
So unless the vaccine was a complete failure they would continue to completion.

Prove that with evidence.  I'll just flat out say it.  This is a made up statement, contradicted by reality, logic and history.  It is flatly false that such is a common practice, you may find an edge case on it here or there.

Quote
So again, you seem to have a lack of knowledge on the topic and to have ignored the specific circumstances of the vaccine.

Or you're talking out of your rear rather than thinking about it.

Quote
Also your understanding of the drug market in general seems incorrect - drugs are not abandoned regularly is they show significant efficacy during a stage 3 trial even if a competitor is first to market.  Bringing an inferior drug to market is quite common - it can have different side effects or be better tolerated for some people, and marketshare is often more a function of marketing that purely efficacy.

It's not uncommon to bring drugs to market where they have less clear results on treating a specific condition specifically because of the indirect connection between the method of operation of those drugs and the impact on the underlying condition.  For some people the drug interactions of the top line product do not result in a benefit for the condition, or cause bad side effects.  It's also the case that the specific chemical interactions caused by these drugs impact far more issues and conditions than the one for which they are approved.  This results in a huge market for "off label use," where an inferior drug for heartburn say can make a killing as a cheap substitute for something else off label, which market can far exceed on the on-label usage. That's a quirk of the impact of the interaction of most classes of modern drugs and body chemistry and has NOTHING to do with vaccines. 

It seems like you heard "Trump" and shut down your logical processing.

cherrypoptart

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #111 on: November 24, 2020, 07:26:14 PM »
Trump started no new wars and under his Presidency our military casualty numbers were very low.

It's going to be interesting on that front looking at how Biden compares over his four years. The way things look right now there shouldn't be any reason for Biden or Harris to start the types of military adventures for which Obama and Hillary were famous. If I remember correctly, Biden was supposed to be against at least some of them.

I'll give Biden props to some extent if he can do as well on that issue as Trump. It's sad though to see sometimes how much war our supposedly more peaceful Democrats can get themselves into like Obama did after his Nobel Peace Prize.

yossarian22c

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #112 on: November 24, 2020, 07:55:05 PM »
Trump started no new wars and under his Presidency our military casualty numbers were very low.

It's going to be interesting on that front looking at how Biden compares over his four years. The way things look right now there shouldn't be any reason for Biden or Harris to start the types of military adventures for which Obama and Hillary were famous. If I remember correctly, Biden was supposed to be against at least some of them.

It depends on how much Trump destabilizes Afghanistan on his way out the door.

And things like the Arab spring with civil wars starting in Libya and Syria weren't foreseeable 2 years out or really even a year in advance. So we'll see what happens in the world and what Biden decides to do about it. Syria could escalate again, if Turkey and Russia bump into each other on the battle field in the wrong way, if one of the factions or Al-Assad's government collapses then things could get very chaotic again. Yemen is still a mess. There are several other northern African countries along the Muslim/Christian/traditional religion boundaries that could destabilize. Lukashenko is making a mess out of Belarus and his hand is strengthened by Trump's behavior.

Bigger risk lower probability events are around other major powers with territorial waters (Russia and China). Taiwan and Hong Kong are potential sources of conflict. Although no one on the outside is going to directly intervein for Hong Kong, if China stomps out the opposition there they may become more belligerent towards the island nation. The world is still full of risk even though things are tamped down because everyone is focused on covid for now.

yossarian22c

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #113 on: November 24, 2020, 07:58:49 PM »
Adding on to the potential hot spots. Despite Trump's love affair with Kim, North Korea is still as crazy as ever.

Aris Katsaris

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #114 on: November 24, 2020, 08:08:55 PM »
Quote
Trump started no new wars

Neither did Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. (They didn't start the war in Kosovo or Libya, wars were already taking place there)

Unless I'm forgetting something, the only living US president who started a war has been George W. Bush.

Quote
under his Presidency our military casualty numbers were very low.

Though my understanding is that under his presidency the military casualty numbers were higher than they were in 2011 and 2012 (Obama's last two years). And of course the reason the casualty numbers in Obama's earlier years were high, was that he had inherited the Iraq war from George W. Bush.

Or to put it differently, it's Obama that brought the casualty numbers low from Bush's peak, Trump merely didn't raise them back up.

Fenring

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #115 on: November 25, 2020, 12:16:15 AM »
Neither did Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. (They didn't start the war in Kosovo or Libya, wars were already taking place there)

Come on, man, this statement is ridiculous. Both Bush 43 and Obama's Presidencies saw a tremendous amount of war, with various nations being knocked over. Whatever was ever happening in Libya over the years, it was not at war in any sense of the term prior to Europe + USA annihilating it. Nor was Syria "at war" with any recognized government prior to the attempt to knock them over. I still don't think Obama's regime was a preposterously bad as Bush 43's, but it's simply untrue to say that he did not start wars. With Clinton I might be inclined to agree, principally because I'm not sure America's attacks in Kosovo really amount to a 'war' (sorry, police action) in the traditional sense. Trump definitely gets the prize out of the last several Presidents specifically in this category.

Aris Katsaris

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #116 on: November 25, 2020, 12:30:44 AM »
Whatever was ever happening in Libya over the years, it was not at war in any sense of the term prior to Europe + USA annihilating it.

There was a month and a half of civil war BEFORE any Western military involvement:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2011_Libyan_Civil_War_before_military_intervention

Nor was Syria "at war" with any recognized government prior to the attempt to knock them over.

"With any recognized government?" That's your issue, whether the people they were at war with was a "recognized government" or not?

Or you don't seem to think that civil wars can happen without America's involvement?

Are you blaming United States for the entirety of Arab Spring? Both the Libyan and Syrian civil war arose from the protests that began there. In both cases the USA gave support to the protesters against the regime -- *once* the civil war had started.

I mean the USA/Europe were probably wrong to get involved, yes, but they didn't start the wars.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 12:32:46 AM by Aris Katsaris »

cherrypoptart

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #117 on: November 26, 2020, 02:17:35 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-promises-bill-providing-pathway-125726760.html

"Joe Biden vowed on Tuesday to send a bill to the Senate that would set up a path to citizenship for 11 million illegal immigrants."

Well good for him.

Just an observation though. Back when Republicans were talking about how this is amnesty and open borders and everyone was saying oh no, it's not that. Well, turns out yes it was and yes it is.

And that's fine. Just own it. Biden wasn't deceptive about it at least. He ran on it and he won and now he's doing it. Congratulations, I guess.

How about we finally just call it what it is though, at least.

TheDeamon

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #118 on: November 26, 2020, 03:08:26 PM »
Too bad for Biden the Republicans have been clear for over 20 years now that no pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants will be granted again until the flow of illegal immigrants over the Southern Border is stopped.

As Democrats fight tooth and nail over not doing so, it's a dead agenda item. Republicans in the Senate will kill the bill.

DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #119 on: November 26, 2020, 04:45:29 PM »
Why is that too bad for Biden?  Isn't that too bad for any number of refugees whose lives are being affected?  Isn't it too bad for the country, as the politics of decades past continue to degrade its very soul and morality?

TheDeamon

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #120 on: November 26, 2020, 06:32:36 PM »
Why is that too bad for Biden?  Isn't that too bad for any number of refugees whose lives are being affected?  Isn't it too bad for the country, as the politics of decades past continue to degrade its very soul and morality?

If they're refugees and entered through legal means, they're not impacted in the least.

As to the millions of dreamers who are left in limbo, maybe the Dems should give that some thought when they consistently work to prevent any significant effort to limit human trafficking across our southern border. Experience has already taught anyone with sense that all an amnesty and pathway to citizenship would do right now is mean we're talking about legalizing another 10 million+ people who entered illegally in another 15 to 20 years time.

DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #121 on: November 26, 2020, 06:55:22 PM »
As to the millions of dreamers who are left in limbo, maybe the Dems should give that some thought when they consistently work to prevent any significant effort to limit human trafficking across our southern border. Experience has already taught anyone with sense that all an amnesty and pathway to citizenship would do right now is mean we're talking about legalizing another 10 million+ people who entered illegally in another 15 to 20 years time.
Yes, I get it - people use the opposition party to excuse their own bad actions, ones that don't actually affect the putative target (read "excuse") but rather, completely independent victims.  Thus, the country losing its soul and morality.  That was you providing an excellent example of just how far the country has sunk.

cherrypoptart

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #122 on: November 27, 2020, 05:17:18 AM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/europe-covid-surge-holidy-travel-11606238690

"Border policies

International travel has been widely recognized as a risk factor in spreading the virus, helping turn the outbreak in Wuhan, China, into a global pandemic. Most of the world suspended cross-border travel for all but essential purposes this spring. Some Asian countries such as South Korea, Japan and Singapore, which have contained Covid-19 with greater success than the West, have kept tight restrictions on international travel, requiring visitors to test for the virus on arrival and often mandating a monitored quarantine."

It must be nice to have secure borders so you can actually have an enforceable border policy.

The thing about Biden announcing his mass amnesty right now which is essentially an open invitation for millions more people to come illegally across our border including hundreds of thousands in just the next few months is that very few of those "visitors" will be getting a test for the virus on arrival and even fewer will be subject to a mandated and monitored quarantine. And as an aside, where are all "the jobs Americans won't do" that will be waiting for them on arrival? How are they going to support themselves?

It's hilarious in a very tragic way how we're all making so many sacrifices to our standard of living, and rightfully so in my opinion, such as being begged not to travel to see family for the holidays, and meanwhile we have all of these people traveling with no absolutely no restrictions or oversight and that's no problemo. I guess it's the same as with the BLM protests. It's perfectly fine to violate all containment protocols if it's for a politically correct cause, apparently. The point is though that it's hard for people to take Democrat sincerity about the virus seriously when they refuse to take themselves seriously either.

Biden with his borders suck policy is as much of a super-spreader as Trump with his masks suck policy.

And maybe Biden is worse because while Trump was just super-spreading within America, Biden is super-spreading all across Latin America as well as these people travel from one end of it to the other on their way here, picking up and carrying the virus all along the way.

cherrypoptart

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #123 on: Today at 01:26:48 AM »
Here's another prediction for the Biden Presidency:

White men need not apply.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-chooses-female-senior-white-221148413.html

Sure he may put in a few as tokens but that'll be about it.

Elections have consequences and all that I suppose.

But one line in this story really tickled my funny bone. The author has a real British penchant for understatement along with a certain dry wit with this keen observation:

"The choice of a number of Obama administration veterans — many with deep relationships with the Washington press corps — also suggests a return to a more congenial relationship with the press."

"...  a return to a more congenial relationship with the press." You can say that again.

Aris Katsaris

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #124 on: Today at 05:32:12 AM »
Quote
White men need not apply.

Perhaps you didn't notice, but the President himself will be a white man.
(As is the current president. And as were 43 of the 44 presidents before him.)

But your reaction certainly showcases how much Trump voters *do* understand the value of minority representation -- the actual problem is that Trump voters only care about minority representation when it concerns their own particular minority, rather than about minorities in general.

Your particular minority (white men) will indeed be underrepresented in Biden's press team -- but you're being a bit selective here, aren't you? White men are currently extremely overrepresented everywhere else in American politics (including Congress & the Supreme Court), so I think your particular minority can manage having just an underrepresentation in Biden's press team.

cherrypoptart

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #125 on: Today at 06:47:15 AM »
Well it's one thing to have a situation in which all qualified potential hires are considered regardless of their gender or race and then the women win out. It's quite another what Biden appears to be doing which is to completely disqualify people based specifically on their race and gender. At least we're being honest about it now with Biden in charge. It's okay to be racist. In fact, it's fantastic. As long as you are racist against whites and especially white men. Then the media will laud your racism and gender discrimination. Maybe he'll win a Nobel Prize for it.

On the other hand, this probably saves a lot of white men a lot of time. At least now they don't have to waste their efforts in a futile attempt even applying. That can be annoying too. Most government jobs and many private sector jobs have to make a big show about letting everyone apply even when they've already decided who is getting the job. It's annoying and depressing getting your hopes up only to find out later that you never had a chance.

I'll confess that it was telling that Kavanaugh did the same thing by hiring only females for his law clerks. Is that really such a good thing? It seems like that's big time gender discrimination too and also gives the appearance of even maybe being a little pervy, only wanting females working under you.

Aris Katsaris

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #126 on: Today at 07:03:10 AM »
Well it's one thing to have a situation in which all qualified potential hires are considered regardless of their gender or race and then the women win out. It's quite another what Biden appears to be doing which is to completely disqualify people based specifically on their race and gender.

So, should I assume you were upset at Trump when he said that he'd choose a woman to replace Ginsburg in the Supreme Court, and he said "I think it should be a woman because I actually like women much more than men."?

I'm assuming that was okay because, see, instead of Trump putting it forward as being done in the interests of minority representation and social justice and the good of the nation, he spoke of it instead as his personal privilege to put types of people that he personally likes more than types of people that he personally dislikes, right? In the same sense it'd be similarly okay if he said the SC court should be a redhead woman with big breasts because he likes redhead women with big breasts more than small-breasted brunette women.

So, if Biden had instead actually literally said: "I think all my press corps should be black women, because black women are awesome and white men suck balls", that'd be good and okay, right?

See, if we are discussing a population of 350 millions, the *direct* effect of whether 7 women will be chosen for the press corps or not is trivial on gender equality in the nation -- it's literally parts per million. The actual effect that matters is the indirect one: the various groups of the nation feeling represented in government. White men have the presidency, and the vast majorities in the Senate and Congress. You'll survive having other groups be overrepresented in one minor, and largely trivial thing, the press corps.

When you have racial and gender conflict, and a group feeling oppressed, a wise statesman takes steps in helping them not feel that.

LetterRip

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #127 on: Today at 07:34:11 AM »
cherry,

illegal immigration occurs predominantly because the federal government ignores illegal hiring by employers.

Extending the existing wall would have zero impact on securing our borders. (Also most illegal permanent residents are visa overstays).

The only way to reduce illegal crossings are cracking down on employers - which Trump and every other Republican has refused to do.  And making amnesty applications allowable at US embassies rather than requiring people to be physically present in the US.

Also China has plenty of illegal immigration (from Vietnam, Africa, North Korea, Myanmar, etc).

One interesting aspect is illegal immigrant smuggling into China for brides,

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/inflow-of-international-immigrants-challenges-chinas-migration-policy/
« Last Edit: Today at 07:46:11 AM by LetterRip »

yossarian22c

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #128 on: Today at 08:14:00 AM »
On the other hand, this probably saves a lot of white men a lot of time. At least now they don't have to waste their efforts in a futile attempt even applying.

If someone had only told Antony Blinken, Ron Klain, Jake Sullivan, and John Kerry they could have been saved the time of getting top level jobs in the Biden administration.

DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #129 on: Today at 08:33:44 AM »
If someone had only told Antony Blinken, Ron Klain, Jake Sullivan, and John Kerry they could have been saved the time of getting top level jobs in the Biden administration.
It's true - only 5 of the 9 cabinet level appointees named to-date are white men.  How will white men survive this historical downgrading of their influence?

DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #130 on: Today at 08:43:54 AM »
Which could be contrasted with the Donald Trump cabinet, which was made up of 18 white men, 3 white women and one black man (oh, and one spouse of the senate majority leader)

Grant

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #131 on: Today at 10:32:23 AM »
Well it's one thing to have a situation in which all qualified potential hires are considered regardless of their gender or race and then the women win out. It's quite another what Biden appears to be doing which is to completely disqualify people based specifically on their race and gender. At least we're being honest about it now with Biden in charge. It's okay to be racist. In fact, it's fantastic. As long as you are racist against whites and especially white men. Then the media will laud your racism and gender discrimination. Maybe he'll win a Nobel Prize for it.

You know, I get what you're saying, but I don't follow the level of angst or snark that is applied here. 

Yes, under ideal conditions, race or gender should not matter for federal job placement, IMO.  The problem is that politics is rarely an ideal situation.  You're constantly having to compromise to please special interests that make up your coalition.  It's pretty easy to corrupt the system, but some appointments are going to have to be made to make some people happy.  As long as the appointees are minimally qualified and the job isn't super critical, then I personally don't see a problem here.  This is the nature of politics.  You never get what you would like, but you may just get enough to keep the majority satisfied. 

Janet Yellen is perfectly qualified.  Maybe the most qualified to run Treasury.  I see no problem here. 

Avril Haines is qualified.  I would think if Biden were trying to throw a bone to the diversity crowd that he would have picked somebody else. More likely it is who he trusts from past experience in the Obama admin.  I see no problem here.  Maybe there is somebody more qualified, but in this case I suspect this is someone Biden knows will tell it to him straight.  That's important in that role. 

Alejandro Mayorkas is an old Obama admin veteran.  He is qualified since he was a former deputy secretary of the department he is now about to head.  No problem here. 

Honestly, I don't see a single bone thrown to the diversity crowd here.  Maybe the female complete communications department?  That's not exactly critical meat there.  State and NatSecAdv are being run by white dudes.  What's the problem?

So far there hasn't even been a bone thrown to the progressive democratic socialist crowd.  I would think that most conservatives, like myself, would be very pleased with the picks so far.  But I guess there is no pleasing some people. 




DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #132 on: Today at 11:18:13 AM »
I don't think Grant mentioned this, but ... the members of the Democratic party skew less white, and less male, than the general population.

The choices for Biden then would also skew more towards women and non-white ethnicities than the general population, all things being equal.  Yet the majority of Biden's cabinet picks are still White men, even though they comprise a minority of the population at large, and even a smaller minority of the Democratic party membership.

Grant

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #133 on: Today at 01:10:55 PM »
I don't think Grant mentioned this, but ... the members of the Democratic party skew less white, and less male, than the general population.

I'm not sure exactly what this means.  Even the Republican party skews less white than the general population, and is only barely close to the male population percentage, and that's only if we're counting leans Republican.  If we're counting registered Dems and Repubs, then both parties skew less male, less female, less white, than the general population. 

I don't even think that it really matters demographically either.  I think what matters is that the Democratic party has a stronger philosophy of diversity than the Republican party, being more attached to affirmative action type policies, and having more special interests involved with affirmative action policies. 

DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #134 on: Today at 01:32:42 PM »
I'm not sure exactly what this means.
The point being that suggesting that somehow, White men are disproportionately being discriminated against by Biden's picks is counter-factual on its face, since Biden, as evidenced by his cabinet picks to-date, is over-representing White men in the cabinet so far, both in comparison to Democratic party members and to the population in general.

Grant

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #135 on: Today at 01:53:34 PM »

The point being that suggesting that somehow, White men are disproportionately being discriminated against by Biden's picks is counter-factual on its face, since Biden, as evidenced by his cabinet picks to-date, is over-representing White men in the cabinet so far, both in comparison to Democratic party members and to the population in general.

I think that you're responding to Cherry's conservative argument with a liberal argument.  Cherry's point, I believe, is that the most qualified personnel should get jobs, regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, etc, regardless of what their place in the demographics generally or party-wise.  I think your point does show that so far the Admin is not following the conservative view of the liberal argument that the demographics of a cabinet or any other group should match the general demographics of the population in order to be fair and equitable.  So nobody's view of what SHOULD be occurring is actually occurring.  The cabinet picks so far do not match the progressive ideal of it matching the demographics of the general population, and apparently Cherry believes that because some women and hispanics have been chosen that they could not possibly have been the best qualified for the job. 

My argument holds that when politics comes into play, you rarely get either one.  You may not always get the best qualified, and that it doesn't matter unless they are qualified period, and it does not seem, so far, that Biden is interested in having his cabinet be 50% female or 10% black or whatever. 

DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #136 on: Today at 02:23:53 PM »
Yes, I was responding to Cherry's points, and showing that Biden's 'numbers' don't even support the idea that 'minorities' are being chosen above their representation in the population as evidence that they are being chosen as tokens, rather than on merit.

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #137 on: Today at 02:32:38 PM »
Quote
We face great challenges as a country right now. To recover, we must restore the American dream—a society where each person can rise to their potential and dream even bigger for their children.

As Treasury Secretary, I will work every day towards rebuilding that dream for all.

Sounds like Yellen has some pretty traditional economic goals.  Not even a nod towards what the more radical elements of the Democrat left would like Biden to prioritize.

wmLambert

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #138 on: Today at 03:47:26 PM »
What Biden Presidency?. I thought he was uncertified in enough states to leave him below the 270 electoral votes necessary. What ever happened to the Logan Act that Biden suggested be used against General Flynn, after Trump had been certified.

A huge majority of the population knows the Democrats tried to steal the election. We have hundreds of whistle-blowers' affidavits stating under penalty of prison that they saw vote-stealing at a level large enough to overcome Trump's huge land-slide victory. We all have heard of the DOD Special Forces that took over the servers at a CIA server Farm in Frankfort, Germany. We haven't heard that the CIA defended the servers with CIA-trained mercs. One CIA officer dead and five soldiers killed, but all being blamed on action in Somalia or the Middle East. This sounds like something we may not have clear knowledge on for a few decades - but it shows thw stakes that is up for grabs.

The vast majority knows the Dems have attempted to steal the election - not the pretend stuff that Hillary dreamed up to set up a Russian Collusion conspiracy against Trump to deflect from her email felonies. Three years of investigations vs, zero. Interesting how hypocritically the Dems think they can get away with thi9s.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:51:15 PM by wmLambert »

Grant

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #139 on: Today at 03:49:16 PM »
Whatever you're smoking, William, I'd like some as well.   Please email me the phone number of your dealer. 

wmLambert

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #140 on: Today at 03:58:30 PM »
Grant, are you denying the proven vote-scamming, or not? snarky insult is not an answer. Do you approve of the proven vote-scamming? Please explain why the battleground states stopped counting when Trump had an insurmountable lead. Never done before, yet these were synchronized and the poll-watchers sent home. Affidavits are evidence that ballots were filled in during parking lot crimes to the exact number needed to catch up, then were dumped in without poll-watchers. Do you agree with this action or not? Enough insult.
pretend you havr some honor and explain the facts.

Grant

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #141 on: Today at 03:59:50 PM »
How have you been feeling lately, William?  Everything going good? 

yossarian22c

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #142 on: Today at 04:05:31 PM »
Grant, are you denying the proven vote-scamming, or not? snarky insult is not an answer. Do you approve of the proven vote-scamming? Please explain why the battleground states stopped counting when Trump had an insurmountable lead. Never done before, yet these were synchronized and the poll-watchers sent home. Affidavits are evidence that ballots were filled in during parking lot crimes to the exact number needed to catch up, then were dumped in without poll-watchers. Do you agree with this action or not? Enough insult.
pretend you havr some honor and explain the facts.

What facts? What proof? That's all debunked BS.

But if you would like me to take a shot at explaining one of them I will, take a specific allegation. Give me the state, voting district and which court cases where these affidavits filed in. Bonus points if you can also find where the judge scolds the Trump lawyers for bringing affidavits from people who had zero understanding of the relevant electoral processes.

msquared

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #143 on: Today at 04:06:20 PM »
The whistle blowers affidavit's have almost to a one been dismissed as people not knowing how the system works. They were by people going to the counting centers (not the trained observers sent by the parties, so the complaints were based on not knowing the system, not fraud.

Wm, if this legal team is so good, why are they 1 for 39 in law suits?   Why are they being dismissed by conservative judges, both state and federal? Why have they never pled large scale fraud in any of these cases? At what point do you get that this is all smoke and mirror's on Trump's part to try and steal the election back? Which will not happen. There is no evidence.

They have had 4 weeks to put up and they have not.

Lloyd Perna

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #144 on: Today at 04:43:18 PM »
Remember that the FBI, CIA and NSA pursued a multi-year investigation into 2016 fraud after one guy repeated a 2nd-hand rumor in a bar in London - but mostly because of Clinton's opposition research.

DonaldD

  • Members
    • View Profile
Re: Predictions and thoughts on the Biden Presidency
« Reply #145 on: Today at 05:35:52 PM »
So Lloyd, you're agreeing with William, are you?